Hence why I’m not spending any more money on analog. Aftermarket is the logical next step. I’ll see how it drives with the regraph, fresh fuel and one less vacuum leak. The last time I bought petrol it was $1.50/L for 98...
Another 205 8v thread
- Thread starter flock
- Start date
So the car wouldn't start after putting in the refurbished dizzy and injectors. Pulled everything apart again in case I knocked something loose. Measured 350ohms on the pickup coil so that was all good. Logic would tell me it must have been the dizzy as the injectors were tested OK.
Turns out when the rebuilder reassembled the shaft he put the offset key on 180 degrees out. Swapped the leads around and she started first go with a cloud of unburnt fuel. It didn't sound quite right at first so I put the timing light on and it was at about 3-4 degrees. Set it to 10 static and it quietened down.
The rebuilder told me I should set the static advance to 15 degrees now. He said he couldn't graph it properly on his ancient machine as the chuck coupling didn't fit without machining, so I'm not sure what it's curve really looks like yet. But he is confident the advance will come in later now with the stiffer springs.
Reading some of Peter's old posts should I just set it so that total advance is about 30-32 degrees and see if it pings?
Turns out when the rebuilder reassembled the shaft he put the offset key on 180 degrees out. Swapped the leads around and she started first go with a cloud of unburnt fuel. It didn't sound quite right at first so I put the timing light on and it was at about 3-4 degrees. Set it to 10 static and it quietened down.
The rebuilder told me I should set the static advance to 15 degrees now. He said he couldn't graph it properly on his ancient machine as the chuck coupling didn't fit without machining, so I'm not sure what it's curve really looks like yet. But he is confident the advance will come in later now with the stiffer springs.
Reading some of Peter's old posts should I just set it so that total advance is about 30-32 degrees and see if it pings?
Also the STOP light is dimly lit with no other warning lights and healthy oil pressure. The light goes full brightness with the engine off.
You beauty!
Took her for her first spin (again). So much smoother!
Dead steady idle @1000, and doesn’t die when feathering the throttle. It also seems to have better manners - doesn't have that Jetronic fuel on/fuel off bunny-hopping nature anymore. Maybe its running rich with 200cc injectors? I'll find out another day. It already feels easier to drive than pre-rebuild.
It doesn't feel any less torquey down low, still takes off in second on inclines with no fuss. Gave it a few pulls up some hills in a high gear to bed in the rings and only the slightest hint of pinging before I backed off.
I started getting worried as the oil pressure started to drop after a couple of kms. When I got home I found the rocker gasket wasn't seated properly on the distributor end, and theres a nice sprinkle of oil around that area.
I haven't taken it past 4500rpm yet, but it seems like it wants to give more.
I am still running the Si rack but with no hydraulic ram just yet. Certainly heavier, but way more direct than the manual rack.
Took her for her first spin (again). So much smoother!
Dead steady idle @1000, and doesn’t die when feathering the throttle. It also seems to have better manners - doesn't have that Jetronic fuel on/fuel off bunny-hopping nature anymore. Maybe its running rich with 200cc injectors? I'll find out another day. It already feels easier to drive than pre-rebuild.
It doesn't feel any less torquey down low, still takes off in second on inclines with no fuss. Gave it a few pulls up some hills in a high gear to bed in the rings and only the slightest hint of pinging before I backed off.
I started getting worried as the oil pressure started to drop after a couple of kms. When I got home I found the rocker gasket wasn't seated properly on the distributor end, and theres a nice sprinkle of oil around that area.
I haven't taken it past 4500rpm yet, but it seems like it wants to give more.
I am still running the Si rack but with no hydraulic ram just yet. Certainly heavier, but way more direct than the manual rack.
Unfortunately that’s a ducellier, but thank you Matt. The spring pivot doesn’t look like it matches the Bosch one.
It’s all good I’m thinking of chucking in a an elite 550/1000, it’s money and time better spent.
For now the car is running great, just did a few runs up the M1.
After pumping the tyres back up to 30psi the 2.7 rack is a lot easier to turn now, even without the assistance. I can’t figure out how best to mount the reservoir. The Si bracket and fusebox makes it foul the battery. For now it just looks like this:
But to be honest I could run without assistance indefinitely, as long as it’s bunged up. It feels no harder to turn slowly than the slow rack, and yet the turn in is so much more direct even after 6 months it’s like night and day.
Air conditioning Has priority over power steering.
It’s all good I’m thinking of chucking in a an elite 550/1000, it’s money and time better spent.
For now the car is running great, just did a few runs up the M1.
After pumping the tyres back up to 30psi the 2.7 rack is a lot easier to turn now, even without the assistance. I can’t figure out how best to mount the reservoir. The Si bracket and fusebox makes it foul the battery. For now it just looks like this:
But to be honest I could run without assistance indefinitely, as long as it’s bunged up. It feels no harder to turn slowly than the slow rack, and yet the turn in is so much more direct even after 6 months it’s like night and day.
Air conditioning Has priority over power steering.
Yep I did buy one with more CCA than factory, from memory it was cheaper and had a longer warranty. I have everything I need to mount it, I just can't fit the bracket with the battery.
I measured the valve clearances and sure enough there is some variance. Keeping in mind this was done with a feeler gauge with 0.001 increments.
From cylinder 1, with the lobe pointed up I'm getting
There appears to be excessive blowby generated, or just high oil pressure when the SAE30 oil is started up cold. Seems to be coming up the dipstick (which isn't totally sealed) and also the top breather.
I took it for a quick drive today to get coffee beans, but forgot to reconnect the top breather hose. It sprayed oil absolutely everywhere, smoke billowing out the bonnet and all. Thankfully there was no fires.
Without doing a leak-down test, I'm putting it down to the rings not having seated properly yet. At the time I could only source a Hastings kit which has chrome-moly compression rings and I understand these take a long time to seat.
I measured the valve clearances and sure enough there is some variance. Keeping in mind this was done with a feeler gauge with 0.001 increments.
From cylinder 1, with the lobe pointed up I'm getting
- Int: 0.007, Ex: 0.009
- Int: 0.008, Ex: 0.011
- Int: 0.008, Ex: 0.010
- Int: 0.007, Ex: 0.009
There appears to be excessive blowby generated, or just high oil pressure when the SAE30 oil is started up cold. Seems to be coming up the dipstick (which isn't totally sealed) and also the top breather.
I took it for a quick drive today to get coffee beans, but forgot to reconnect the top breather hose. It sprayed oil absolutely everywhere, smoke billowing out the bonnet and all. Thankfully there was no fires.
Without doing a leak-down test, I'm putting it down to the rings not having seated properly yet. At the time I could only source a Hastings kit which has chrome-moly compression rings and I understand these take a long time to seat.
Not clear.
Both Chrome and Molybdenum are coatings not ring materials. Rings can be carbon steel, cast iron, forged steel, etc. There is a steel called chromoly but I doubt anyone uses that as ring material.
A Chrome coating takes longer to seat but a Molybdenum coating needs a fine hone otherwise you wear away the Molybdenum and you get blowby.
Both Chrome and Molybdenum are coatings not ring materials. Rings can be carbon steel, cast iron, forged steel, etc. There is a steel called chromoly but I doubt anyone uses that as ring material.
A Chrome coating takes longer to seat but a Molybdenum coating needs a fine hone otherwise you wear away the Molybdenum and you get blowby.
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Yes, sorry they are chrome coated.
Hi.
You could try and bed in the rings. Sorry if you already know the proceedure.
With a warmed up engine, locate a road with an incline with a long slow road up to the top, the less traffic the better. You will want to be able to do 80 to 100 kmh.
Start at the lowest part, and accelerate to a speed where you can put the gearbox into say 4th or 5th gear, and drive up the hill with wide open throttle (WOT). If the vehicle is accelerating, then #ride the brake a bit to load up the engine, to enable you to maintain WOT for as long as you can until you reach the top. Maybe repeat a couple of times.
The objective is to get full combustion gas pressure on the ID of the piston rings to push the rings against the cylinder walls. This additional mechanical force may be enough for the rings to bed into the cylinder walls, and achieve an improved seal.
#don't get your brakes so hot that they would fade should you need them comming down the other side of the hill.
Cheers.
I did warn you not to do finish off the valve clearances until the head was torqued down. They move around a lot. The inlets are ok, but when it gets hot you'll probably ride an exhaust valve (or two). They need to be 0.012" minimum. I know the book says 0.013".
I concur with Whippet. Long, slow pulls in 4th, from 1500-2000. Back off and repeat. If it's straight SAE30, with no friction modifiers, it will be fine.
I know I was a naughty boy Peter, I did not doubt you at all. At least this settles the argument. He was adamant they would barely change, this was straight from him when I told him they have indeed changed a lot:
The tappet clearances on the docket will be what we set them to, and the tighter clearances usually show up next to the cam pulley as the timing belt shifts the clearance from the bottom to the top of the first cam tunnel....The tappets can alter when the head is fitted, but not from torquing it down. The main reason they alter is the tension from the timing belt.
Anyway it's safe to say I'll be re-shimming my exhaust valves before too long.
Apart from the obvious benefit of not burning out valves, what is the effect of decreasing the advertised exhaust duration by loosening the exhaust clearance - a little bit less exhaust scavenging?
Looking at UK cam manufacturers, Catcams specify an exchaust valve lash of "OEM" whilst Newman and Piper recommend 0.010" which is worrying. My cam report said 0.012".
The tappet clearances on the docket will be what we set them to, and the tighter clearances usually show up next to the cam pulley as the timing belt shifts the clearance from the bottom to the top of the first cam tunnel....The tappets can alter when the head is fitted, but not from torquing it down. The main reason they alter is the tension from the timing belt.
Anyway it's safe to say I'll be re-shimming my exhaust valves before too long.
Apart from the obvious benefit of not burning out valves, what is the effect of decreasing the advertised exhaust duration by loosening the exhaust clearance - a little bit less exhaust scavenging?
Looking at UK cam manufacturers, Catcams specify an exchaust valve lash of "OEM" whilst Newman and Piper recommend 0.010" which is worrying. My cam report said 0.012".
Belt tension does have an effect, but not 0.003".
I'd run it until you start to have misses, run out of power etc. Cam85 had an 8V with just 0.006" on the exhaust. It wouldn't rev past 4K. The risk is you'll burn out an exhaust valve.
As you know, it's no big deal to pull the cam out and change the shims.
16V heads also move around a bit, but nowhere near as bad as 8V heads. Most people wouldn't know, as 16V heads usually have hydraulic lifters.
I'd run it until you start to have misses, run out of power etc. Cam85 had an 8V with just 0.006" on the exhaust. It wouldn't rev past 4K. The risk is you'll burn out an exhaust valve.
As you know, it's no big deal to pull the cam out and change the shims.
16V heads also move around a bit, but nowhere near as bad as 8V heads. Most people wouldn't know, as 16V heads usually have hydraulic lifters.
I've used Hastings rings many times, both moly-filled and chrome
I believe Hasting's literature states their chrome rings are "pre-seated" at the factory so they only require a bore finish in the 220 to 280 grit range?
I use a bed-in procedure similar to the ones Whippet and PeterT outlined and have never had any poor ring sealing issues.
I thought I'd test the O2 sensor. Completely dead, so I chucked in my spare and boy has it made a difference. If anyone has a badly behaving Jetronic it pays to check the sensor works, even if the closed loop control is a bit archaic.
A subtle, but noticeable improvement in its driving manners at light loads, low speed manoeuvring and even changing gears. Still a bit jumpy when you're close to the fuel cutoff RPM, but that's Jetronic. Revs still sometimes overshoot idle when you clutch in from a high rpm, but it is a bit more resilient to stalling, so idle is set to roughly 1100rpm whereas I had to have it at 1500 before. Still has a very faint STOP light illumination.
As mentioned in another thread I have acquired a Haltech PS1000. I am planning to build my own loom as I worked out I only need half the I/O. The plan is:
1. Each injector wired up individually, even though it's probably still going to be in batch mode.
2. Ditch dizzy, run 2 ignition wires to an SI coil. I think if it has a 4-pin plug, it must have external 12V and GND, and the PS1000 should be able to drive it without an amplifier. Motronic flywheel and sensor already on the car.
3. Ditch/gut AFM and delete SAD (which works perfectly), make an adapter to use a standard XU10 throttle body with built in air temp sensor, TPS and IACV. Not sure if the PS1000 will idle well with the original air bleed, and cold start would be an issue without the SAD. Peter showed me a video of his Motronic 205 idling fine on a similar cam profile. Closed loop is most ideal if going to the effort.
4. Keep a narrowband sensor but also wire up an input for wideband from the cabin. Can I just borrow a CAN/analog wideband controller to aid in tuning and then run the car with narrowband from then on? I don't see the need for the extra complexity of a permanent WBC and repositioning the exhaust bung for longevity of the sensor, if the engine protection function can still work with a NB voltage target and the car is tuned open loop. Without speaking to a tuner, it looks like you can program closed loop O2 within a set of limits (idle, cruising conditions).
5. Tee off External MAP from fuel regulator, or tap a hole more centrally in the manifold since the fuel vacuum line is pretty much on the 4th cylinder runner.
6. Miscellaneous I/O: Tacho Output, Aircon input, high speed radiator fan override
7. Fuses and relays. Inside the cabin or engine bay? Can anybody shed light on what is in the box above the passenger strut tower on Series 3 / Si? I’d like it to look as OEM as possible.
A subtle, but noticeable improvement in its driving manners at light loads, low speed manoeuvring and even changing gears. Still a bit jumpy when you're close to the fuel cutoff RPM, but that's Jetronic. Revs still sometimes overshoot idle when you clutch in from a high rpm, but it is a bit more resilient to stalling, so idle is set to roughly 1100rpm whereas I had to have it at 1500 before. Still has a very faint STOP light illumination.
As mentioned in another thread I have acquired a Haltech PS1000. I am planning to build my own loom as I worked out I only need half the I/O. The plan is:
1. Each injector wired up individually, even though it's probably still going to be in batch mode.
2. Ditch dizzy, run 2 ignition wires to an SI coil. I think if it has a 4-pin plug, it must have external 12V and GND, and the PS1000 should be able to drive it without an amplifier. Motronic flywheel and sensor already on the car.
3. Ditch/gut AFM and delete SAD (which works perfectly), make an adapter to use a standard XU10 throttle body with built in air temp sensor, TPS and IACV. Not sure if the PS1000 will idle well with the original air bleed, and cold start would be an issue without the SAD. Peter showed me a video of his Motronic 205 idling fine on a similar cam profile. Closed loop is most ideal if going to the effort.
4. Keep a narrowband sensor but also wire up an input for wideband from the cabin. Can I just borrow a CAN/analog wideband controller to aid in tuning and then run the car with narrowband from then on? I don't see the need for the extra complexity of a permanent WBC and repositioning the exhaust bung for longevity of the sensor, if the engine protection function can still work with a NB voltage target and the car is tuned open loop. Without speaking to a tuner, it looks like you can program closed loop O2 within a set of limits (idle, cruising conditions).
5. Tee off External MAP from fuel regulator, or tap a hole more centrally in the manifold since the fuel vacuum line is pretty much on the 4th cylinder runner.
6. Miscellaneous I/O: Tacho Output, Aircon input, high speed radiator fan override
7. Fuses and relays. Inside the cabin or engine bay? Can anybody shed light on what is in the box above the passenger strut tower on Series 3 / Si? I’d like it to look as OEM as possible.
flock, your setup there looks a bit off
I've got a spare pwr steer fluid reservoir bracket with the M10 nuts if you need it free
2. You will need a dual channel amp, eg as fitted to an XU10J4 etc. or similar. The PS1000 can't ground the coil(s) directly.
4. Just buy a new wideband (and controller) which has a 0-5V output. I'm not sure if the PS1000 can do CAN wideband. You only need the one bung & sensor. It can do all.
5. Use the internal map sensor in the PS1000. Tee off to fuel regulator.
eg AEM 30-0310
www.carmodsaustralia.com.au
and
Haltech Dual Channel Ignitor
www.haltech.com
AEM 30-0310 X-Series Inline Wideband UEGO AFR Controller
Buy AEM 30-0310 X-Series Inline Wideband UEGO AFR Controller. Fast shipping. Shop Now Pay later!
www.carmodsaustralia.com.au
and
Haltech Dual Channel Ignitor
HT-020002 Dual Channel OEM Igniter (DUMB) - Haltech
HT-020002 Dual Channel OEM Igniter (DUMB) .,,,,. Outputs: . Suits:. Includes: Mounting bracket, thermal paste and matching plug and pins.. Notes: . Overview: Dual Channel OEM Igniter (DUMB),HT-020002,HT020002,HT_020002,020002,ht-020002,ht020002,ht_020002
www.haltech.com
Thanks run, I have all the bits but my battery is too big to fit the bracket. I'll get around to it one day.
Looking again the 4th pin is just for a suppressor. Thanks for the heads up. I find it impressive a base model Si could drive coils directly in 1992 and still work to this day. My 2002 323 is on its 3rd set of coils with built in ignitors at 190kms.
According to the manual and in ECU Manager it can do CAN wideband so I have a choice there. Analog only is cheaper. That AEM would make a clean install and has both!