Another 205 8v thread

[schlitzaugen]

I trust a deflecting beam over a micrometer type, regardless of manufacturer. There's something about witnessing the purity of relative displacement in front of your eyes. Plus the only wearable (breakable) part is the pin which can be replaced at my nearest tool shop.

Back on track. I put the timing belt on and realised I forgot to seal up the oil gallery plugs. I'm thinking Loctite 577. Now that the sump is on, is it a good idea to prime the galleries with oil through the pressure senders?

Also contemplating putting the manual steering back on until I find someone to rebuild the PAS rack. After stretching the old seals on the pinion I realised it doesn't take much to ruin them. The old man , who is a hydraulic fitter, told me to put them in boiled water then use some brass shim to slide them on, but doing a test fit with the old seals I found I was crushing the shim or slicing into the seal on the sharp edges. I don't see how you can return the seal to its original shape after its been stretched as it just buckles when you try to clamp it. He thought he had some free time this week, but all the elites seem to be refitting their superyachts as of late, so he has his hands full.

Just waiting on a BE3 throwout bearing and I can throw the engine back on a hoist.

I am not sure you (or peter) understand what I am talking about.

Here it is:

https://www.tohnichi.com/images/products/torque-wrench/DB-DBE-DBR.jpg

Essentially a beam type wrench just like yours only it has a dial indicator instead of a clicky system or a pointer. Difficult to argue it is less accurate than a "normal" beam type. From the W&B website:

Dial Type Torque Wrenches​

Dial-type torque wrenches are generally considered to be one of the most accurate types of the torque wrench. The dial-type wrench is the only type of torque wrench where the final reading is not easily affected by the hand-hold position on the wrench. Dial Type torque wrenches are wider than some of the other types so may be difficult to use in tight situations, and the dial scale must always be in the sight to determine the torque being applied. Dial type wrenches are generally more expensive than other types of wrenches however they are extremely accurate. In addition to automotive use, they are also used in the aerospace and defence industries.

https://wbtools.com.au/blog/how-to-choose-the-right-torque-wrench

It also has "live" torque indication if we're talking about visual purity.

And goes either way.

Trust what you want, but make sure you read carefully what I write rather than trusting others who may or may not understand anything themselves.

 

[flock]

Maybe start a new thread to discuss Schlitz? I was poo-pooing micrometer wrenches, so you’ve wasted your effort on me.

 

[schlitzaugen]

I wasn't poo-poing anything. I am sure every torque wrench is very good for its intended purpose.

Just mentioned the type of torque wrenches recommended by frenchies for their wet liner engines with Aluminium blocks (Renault).

There was an entire discussion about this problem some years back in the Renault forum in reference to 807 engines and their propensity to strip threads, very similar to the XU9 engine.

 

[CEyssens]

I ended up taking the rack to a steering shop., Another shop that loathes when a Pug owner comes in. They did the seals and shimmed up the pinion.

Have not checked those clearances yet Peter, I need to confirm what the machinist set them at to begin with as I am very curious. Typical old bugger though. Reckons I'd be spending money unnecessarily worrying about 'miniscule' changes in clearances and getting deadly accurate on cam timing. He was, however, more concerned with how I will adjust the ignition advance.

Well there's no throwout bearings in the country. Not until December at least. I do have one that came with my Si BE3 and it doesn't feel scratchy or too 'free'. If the brains trust says 1st gear is as bad as they say it is, I'd like to throw this gearbox on and chuck the engine in pronto.

I think I have a spare throw out bearing in Melbourne

 

[PeterT]

He was, however, more concerned with how I will adjust the ignition advance.

Let me know if you need a hand.

 

[AlexB]

The sidetrack discussion on torque wrenches reminded me I had read a great article on Torque wrench myths somewhere and I just found it again. The one that had ever since stuck in my head was the answer to 'Wrenches Can't measure in 5-pound increments or less'.

Torque Wrench Myths - Circle Track Magazine

Jeff Huneycutt explores the myths behind torque wrenches, seperating fact from fiction. - Circle Track Magazine

www.motortrend.com

I suggest a new thread be created for any replies.

 

[flock]

Its time to pull the handbrake.

My clutch bearing came in the nick of time (thanks CEyssens). Took a day off last Wednesday to fit the gearbox to the engine.

Got the engine and gearbox back in the car, and the garage cleaned up by 7pm.

Just 3 hours later we had a precipitous labour that came on hard and fast and became parents at 1am.

I don’t see the missus letting me downstairs for a little while. But I’m confident now everything else that needs doing can be slowly hacked without spending entire days down there. I have a hit list of stuff to sort out in the meantime:

1. Distributor pickup cable broke again at the connector. I need to find a 2-pin connector to reterminate.

2. In changing the clutch to BE3 is like to use the BE1 cable. I can see one of Peters solutions on ‘drivers forum which was a turned up long nut as the adjustment. Only thing is I can’t figure out how to secure the cable to the gearbox for it to tension.

3. Power steering. Replace some of the low pressure hoses and figure out how it all routes around the engine bay. The cooling loop is in.

Thanks again to those that helped me get this far so quickly. I’ll try to keep posting updates as they come and keep this thread alive.

 

[natumbri]

Congratulations, on all fronts!

 

[Adrian Wuillemi]

There is a cut out in the gearbox that the end of the cable sits in. It is under the gearbox mount/battery box.

 

[CEyssens]

have a look at that U shaped area of the transmission webbing

 

[Jared]

What is it with 205 and babies? I had our 2nd rock up about a week after getting my Si! Congratulations

 

[schlitzaugen]

I would suggest you forget about that dizzy connector. It will break again. And again. I removed it completely, soldered two silicone wires inside the dizzy and made a pigtail terminated with a Deutsch two pin connector. I used some silicone goo to seal the point where they come out. Replaced the mating connector with the corresponding Deutsch and 11 years later no problems with the car being used more or less daily.

 

[flock]

Righto, so:

1. The distributor pickup has been sorted out. I half took Shlitz advice and made a fly lead with a deutsch connector. But the connector was easy to take apart and change the crimps. Now there’s more flex at the dizzy end and the lead is longer so it takes a longer bending radius.

After doing the deutsch connector I got into a bit of a frenzy. I decided to do away with the brown myltiplug from the ECU loom and broke it out into 2 separate plugs, one for the front and one for the rear. And since I was going to that effort I decided to scrap the wiring to those sensors and replace with red v90 pvc, whilst retaining the factory numbering with heatshrink labels. I had some double insulated v90 50mm2 and 16mm2 cable laying around so I also decided to replace the starter motor and alternator supplies respectively.

2. My dad has finished turning up a bolt to adapt the BE1 clutch cable with the BE3 fork. Haven’t had a chance to see him yet but he followed one of Peter’s schematics so I’d say it will fit.

3. It took me a while to figure out how the power steering routed around the engine. I found a leak in the baffle of the high pressure hose and I found the hose to be too long anyway as it pushes the hard line at a funny angle due to its flex at the firewall.

This made me accidentally strip the last 2 threads of the valve body removing it. So lazy me, cut a thread file in half and spent a good while fixing the thread on the female and male. Took the hose to Enzed and they made me a nice new hose with removable ends on the hard lines which makes it soooo much nicer to fit in situ. I also got them to make the baffle closer to the hard line so it wasn’t right at the peak of the flex.

When I thought I butchered the thread I removed the ram from the rack thinking I might need to revisit. So at the moment the pump is connected to the rack but the ends are blanked off and I’m just using a belt for the alternator. When is satisfied I can’t handle 2.7:1 manually I’ll throw the ram back on and fully commission the new steering.

So that leaves the engine bay in the current state:

I’m yet to touch the distributor advance. As far as I’m aware all I need to do now is throw the suspension back on and fill up all the fluids.

For first engine start up, I’m not sure whether I take it for a drive right away with varying revs to bed the rings, or let it idle at high revs to bed the cam in.

More to come.

 

[schlitzaugen]

Well done. You won't regret it.

Do the cam first because that only takes like 20 minutes or so at some say 2500RPM, some say 4000RPM. I did mine at 4000RPM stationary in the driveway and it worked. I guess anywhere inbetween is fine. Rings need to be pressed firmly in the cylinder wall to bed in too, so it will help with that too. Just make sure you have plenty of assembly grease on the camshaft and only a light squirt of WD40 or similar in the cylinders. And make sure the engine starts on first key. Use some zinc additive in the oil to make sure it's at the correct concentration.

 

[driven]

Well done. You won't regret it.

Do the cam first because that only takes like 20 minutes or so at some say 2500RPM, some say 4000RPM. I did mine at 4000RPM stationary in the driveway and it worked. I guess anywhere inbetween is fine. Rings need to be pressed firmly in the cylinder wall to bed in too, so it will help with that too. Just make sure you have plenty of assembly grease on the camshaft and only a light squirt of WD40 or similar in the cylinders. And make sure the engine starts on first key. Use some zinc additive in the oil to make sure it's at the correct concentration.

All sounds great further details for a 1275 engine
https://www.calverst.com/technical-info/running-in-new-engines/

 

[PeterT]

20 mins @ 2000 is the normal. Pour the contents of Crane Cams Break-In Concentrate over the lobes before starting.

 

[flock]

I used Penrite assembly lube liberally on the bearings and cam which contains zinc and moly. Plus I'm using Bursons break in oil which also has a high zinc/phosphorous ppm, so is the break-in concentrate still necessary?

Also how do you guys prime your oil galleries. Turn the crank by hand, or crank the engine with no spark or fuel?

 

[PeterT]

.......so is the break-in concentrate still necessary?

Also how do you guys prime your oil galleries. Turn the crank by hand, or crank the engine with no spark or fuel?

Ask your cam grinder.

Plugs out and wind it over on the starter.

 

[Matthew]

buy two if you do I also need some!

 

[schlitzaugen]

I checked the recommended Zn level in the oil and then checked the spec of the oil I had found available to me. It still needed some Zn to bring up the concentration so I bought some Zn additive, I think Redline and given the two concentrations (oil and additive) I worked out how much to add to bring the full amount of mix (oil+additive) I was going to use to the required level. So I guess the answer depends on what oil you choose. My choice was rather limited.