1962 dauphine Gordini Project

geodon

geodon

Active member
Fellow Frogger
Joined
Jan 15, 2013
Messages
600
Location
Geelong
 
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Dauphine Coils Spring Compressors

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They worked fine but I was hoping to relieve the downwards pressure on the check straps with a garage jack so I could release the check strap mounting bolts then let the swing arm go down to remove the spring & shocker.
But no! All that did was lift up the whole power unit on my trolley!
So I made a clamp with chain & all-thread & used the cross member mounting holes to squeeze the spring enough to get some slack to remove one check strap bolt.

Testing the shocker: good tension extending (i.e. falling in a hole) but not much compressing i.e. hitting a bump. Is that normal? Surely they are double action & not single??
 
Its been a long time now, but those springs sure do look heavy duty for a little douphine
 
pugwash said:
Its been a long time now, but those springs sure do look heavy duty for a little douphine
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Be a good idea to measure the spring diameter and free length and check against the specific manual. They do look heavy, don't they.

I can't imagine not fitting new rear shock absorbers myself. Find a pair of Konis and treat her in the manner that she deserves. Our R8, mostly a grown up Dauphine after all, was transformed by new rear Konis. And yes, most assuredly Dauphines had double acting shockers, at least when they were new they were double acting....
 
Factory vs (mine)

Wire Diameter 12.75 (12.5-13)

OD 99mm (~100mm)

Free Length 278mm (~280)

You may be visualizing the fronts? They are ~1.5 thinner.
 
Advice re Precautionary Replacements/Maintenance?

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Just did a prelim clean prior to removal of swing arms.

I managed to revive "Rip Van Winkle" after 30 years & drove it for a bit in my big paddock with just the handbrake and I was quite happy with the motor & gears. It's got 40K miles on the clock & I feel that's genuine so no surprise there.

My 1st objective is to get the power unit finished up to the install stage.

Obvious replacement/work: brakes, all rubber (mounts, hoses, belts, boots) shocks (thanks, JohnW!)

Not so obvious:

1. Clutch. It worked fine. No judder or slip. But, the adjustment at the cable was nearly to its limit. Cable stretch? Wear @ friction disc & thrust bearing? I will replace all these but am tempted to leave the pressure plate alone. Do they have a history of failure?


2. Driveshafts. Is uni joint replacement a given? I NEVER replaced VW ones in decades of repair. They were indestructible.

3. Wheel bearings looked perfect but I will replace the seals.

Am I missing anything while it's "on the deck"?
 
I have some paint mixed correctly for block left over if you want it,
 
geodon said:
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Just did a prelim clean prior to removal of swing arms.

I managed to revive "Rip Van Winkle" after 30 years & drove it for a bit in my big paddock with just the handbrake and I was quite happy with the motor & gears. It's got 40K miles on the clock & I feel that's genuine so no surprise there.

My 1st objective is to get the power unit finished up to the install stage.

Obvious replacement/work: brakes, all rubber (mounts, hoses, belts, boots) shocks (thanks, JohnW!)

Not so obvious:

1. Clutch. It worked fine. No judder or slip. But, the adjustment at the cable was nearly to its limit. Cable stretch? Wear @ friction disc & thrust bearing? I will replace all these but am tempted to leave the pressure plate alone. Do they have a history of failure?


2. Driveshafts. Is uni joint replacement a given? I NEVER replaced VW ones in decades of repair. They were indestructible.

3. Wheel bearings looked perfect but I will replace the seals.

Am I missing anything while it's "on the deck"?
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Hi, here are my views:

1. Clutch. I'd inspect the pressure plate for obvious wear, damage but if it really has only done 40K miles it might be fine to leave. You have a choice of graphite thrust or roller of the same dimension incidentally. Be very careful to get the pressure plate the right way around when reassembling, as there is a longer nose on one side of the splined centre bush. I've never had a clutch cable stretch myself. I'll bet the graphite thrust is worn out.

2. I've not replaced any universal joints since 1968. I wouldn't touch that area unless there's a clear problem. The U/Js are readily available too. You can get a little rocking looseness at the wheel rim even with good wheel bearings if the U/Js are worn but they are good for high mileages in my experience.

3. Wheel bearings? Be careful not to overtighten the fronts as they are not large! For the rears, I'd pull out the half shafts, wash all the grease out and check the bearings for free spinning. They can be tight yet rough if the case hardening is starting to fail. May depend upon whether they were greased regularly in the car's past life - there is a grease nipple.

Anything else? Yes. :) I can't remember whether the Dauphine G has a crankshaft oil seal behind the flywheel like my R8 or a slinger like my 4CV, but if it has a seal, I'd replace it if you are dismantled to the clutch. Check and lubricate the spigot bush in the flywheel Replace the oil seal where the main driveshaft goes from the clutch housing into the differential. Also eplace the oil seal where the gear selector rod comes out of the gearbox, with new roll pins in the selector mechanism that comes to bits to replace the seal. Put the correct external "soufflet" on the outside too to keep dust out of that seal. Check the trunnions on the swing axles for play when the springs are released and you can feel the movement easily.

All good clean fun!
 
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I found the water pump felt rough to turn so I decided to remove it & put in a kit.

The pulley needed a puller so I made one.

M8 bolts plus those big square washers and I knew those spare MG Magnette wheel nuts would come in handy some day! Punters may notice I like to weld washers on rather than drill holes. It's just easier & quicker.

Evil looking bearing! Worse looking inlet (?) port. Looks like a new pump now.
 
geodon said:
I found the water pump felt rough to turn.....
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Typical old 1950s-60s Renault water pump. There's a lot to be said for modern coolant, changed as required, isn't there!

Nice work, and more sophisticated than my "support the pulley somehow and give the shaft a good whack" approach....
 
Transmission off!

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As JohnW predicted, the thrust bearing is well & truly stuffed! That alignment looks wrong: The thrust bearing is not centred relative to the surface it pushes on located on the pressure plate. Granted, it won't drastically affect how the clutch works but it just looks wrong. I can't see that it can be adjusted??

I want to detach the pressure & friction plates for inspection but I don't have a spare mainshaft to align the friction plate when they go back.

In the past (eg the Land Rover), I use a rod that fits the spigot in the flywheel snugly ( in this case ~12.5mm so that half inch UNF allthread rod will come in handy again!) and then wind masking tape around the rod where the mainshaft splines are & then wiggle it till central confirmed by a visual inspection.

The plate with the thrust mechanism seems detachable but there's a BIG gasket. Best left alone?? I'd like to remove it so I can mount the transmission on a rotating stand.
 
geodon said:
As JohnW predicted, the thrust bearing is well & truly stuffed! That alignment looks wrong: The thrust bearing is not centred relative to the surface it pushes on located on the pressure plate. Granted, it won't drastically affect how the clutch works but it just looks wrong. I can't see that it can be adjusted??

I want to detach the pressure & friction plates for inspection but I don't have a spare mainshaft to align the friction plate when they go back.

In the past (eg the Land Rover), I use a rod that fits the spigot in the flywheel snugly ( in this case ~12.5mm so that half inch UNF allthread rod will come in handy again!) and then wind masking tape around the rod where the mainshaft splines are & then wiggle it till central confirmed by a visual inspection.

The plate with the thrust mechanism seems detachable but there's a BIG gasket. Best left alone?? I'd like to remove it so I can mount the transmission on a rotating stand.
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You need a spare main drive shaft to centre the newly re-assembled clutch. I could post you one on loan, presuming the Dauphine G item is the same as the 4CV, and it looks the same. PM if you want to borrow it. You need to be sure the driven plate is the right way around too!

As you say, the thrust looks way out of alignment. They don't look perfectly aligned anyway in my experience of old ones, many moons ago, but I don't remember one as bad as that. Did the clutch shudder? The pressed steel fork is maybe a bit bent right at the two points where it accepts the round pivots from the graphite thrust? Check that the axis of rotation of those two extensions that hold the thrust are parallel to the line of pivot where the fork rotates against the big end plate of the transmission perhaps. I don't know of adjustment there other than bending things! You'd suspect it was not parallel from original assembly by the look of that thrust. Wow...

Check also whether the wear marks on the end plate where the clutch fork pivots look parallel to the orientation the thrust should have, or not.

Equally, there's plenty of meat on the graphite thrust, in line with your understanding of the low mileage of the car.

You do need to remove that big alloy end plate because you do need to replace the driveshaft seal, which is pressed into the plate from the differential side. Not a problem especially with nice modern blue silicone gasket stuff. With that plate off, and the pressed steel plate unfastened from the gearbox, you can get all the grot out of the bottom of the transmission.

Best of luck. It does look pretty original and gives a good colour match to others here asking about paint colours!
 
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Common situation?

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I remembered I had a spare clutch throw-out assembly in the spares that came with the car.

It also had a carbon thrust bearing & the wear pattern is identical! So I'd reckon it's a common situation?

The whole she-bang strikes me as a pretty in-precise set-up. There's plenty of opportunity/room for variation in alignment. As I said, it won't affect the operation of the clutch. When I drove it, it felt good- no slip or judder.

The comparison with the Landy is chalk & cheese. The LR has a thrust bearing integral with the gearbox casing & is a top-hat sectioned unit that slides in & out AND rotates on no less than a big ball-bearing set into the casting. But then, the LR unit was built for extreme work, wasn't it?

Horses for courses? The Renault unit is certainly NOT over-engineered!

I will eventually put in a new thrust bearing and adopt a laissez-faire attitude.
 
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Seems to me that the fork has to swing out further than it should ,effecting the alignment of the thrust ,douse it have the correct pressure plate fitted or possibly the flywheel has been machined down ,,is there any signs of the shaft rubbing on the inside of the thrust ,in thinking the yoke should be at 90 degrees to the shaft when the thrust engages ,this would appear not to be the case ,hope that helps pugs
 
geodon said:
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I remembered I had a spare clutch throw-out assembly in the spares that came with the car.

It also had a carbon thrust bearing & the wear pattern is identical! So I'd reckon it's a common situation?

The whole she-bang strikes me as a pretty in-precise set-up. There's plenty of opportunity/room for variation in alignment. As I said, it won't affect the operation of the clutch. When I drove it, it felt good- no slip or judder.

The comparison with the Landy is chalk & cheese. The LR has a thrust bearing integral with the gearbox casing & is a top-hat sectioned unit that slides in & out AND rotates on no less than a big ball-bearing set into the casting. But then, the LR unit was built for extreme work, wasn't it?

Horses for courses? The Renault unit is certainly NOT over-engineered!

I will eventually put in a new thrust bearing and adopt a laissez-faire attitude.
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Your #3 photo is about what I've seen before - a bit "off" but no great chunk missing from the graphite. Yes, light engineering!! I suspect "laissez-faire" is the way to go if nothing is bent.

What's funny is that if the un-centred wear were due to the arc of movement of the thrust, I'd expect that wear uneven-ness to be at right angles to what you have on both of them. Anyway, doesn't matter - two worn the same like that would be enough for me to stop worrying.

The Land-Rover gearbox is presumably the same essentially as the older P3 and earlier saloons, which also had synchro on 3rd and 4th gears, 2nd being a constant mesh with a dog engagement. I'd say typical pre-war Rover, and VERY thoroughly engineered. Nice vehicles for their time I reckon - I used to enjoy them a lot. Pity they never engineered in enough power mind you by LWB Series IIA.
 
"..... used to enjoy them a lot. Pity they never engineered in enough power mind you by LWB Series IIA. "

Errrrrrrm! It's powered by a Holden 186 & yeah I break axles!!

During the resto I was torn between leaving it & going back to a 2.25. Orig engines are getting thin on the ground so I left it because it's part of Geelong's history as the conversion was by D R Johnston Engineering late of North Geelong. Damn fine job using v heavy engine mounts & a cast iron adaptor plate- when I checked for "out of round" it was only 2-3 thou out. Poor alignment was/is the Achilles's Heel of conversions because gear boxes break if the mainshaft whips about

I have since acquired a 2.25 engine ex a Series3 with a 15amp (!) alternator- doncha just love Joseph Lucas- so I guess it will eventually go back to orig specs.
 
Curiouser & Curiouser!

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Well the gasket is NOT the one it left the factor with! No biggie. I have plenty of the required paper & a punch set to make the holes.

Mon Dieu! The slop from how the clutch fork is mounted is unbelievable. It wasn't "built to last" was it? Even the mounts for the thrust bearing are a bit suss. The bearing does not detach unless one of the eyes on the fork are opened up? Then pressed or hammered closed?? Looks like someone had bad luck on the one I removed: it's had a brazing repair!

I took the chance to test the seal for the gear change shaft. I tilted the transmission then put in about a litre of engine oil & let it hang. No leaks so I will assume it's serviceable
 
geodon said:
"..... used to enjoy them a lot. Pity they never engineered in enough power mind you by LWB Series IIA. "

Errrrrrrm! It's powered by a Holden 186 & yeah I break axles!!

During the resto I was torn between leaving it & going back to a 2.25. Orig engines are getting thin on the ground so I left it because it's part of Geelong's history as the conversion was by D R Johnston Engineering late of North Geelong. Damn fine job using v heavy engine mounts & a cast iron adaptor plate- when I checked for "out of round" it was only 2-3 thou out. Poor alignment was/is the Achilles's Heel of conversions because gear boxes break if the mainshaft whips about

I have since acquired a 2.25 engine ex a Series3 with a 15amp (!) alternator- doncha just love Joseph Lucas- so I guess it will eventually go back to orig specs.
Click to expand...

:roflmao: You WOULD break axles with that engine. Mind you, I reckon it is a valid conversion and I'd be similarly tempted to leave it exactly as it is - as an "Australianised" Land-Rover. Not an uncommon conversion at the time. You could get heavy duty rear axles, but then maybe the gearbox breaks instead... I remember the first Series 3 vehicles with their almost unchangeable gears, at least with synchromesh.

I didn't know anyone made an alternator as small as 15A. Good grief. Even my R8's Bosch from a 16TS has 30 amps or so. My CX has a 110 amp Bosch unit.

Re the clutch fork: my R8 has the same type. It is 50 years old and quite OK - it might look light but the basic simplicity does work alright in the long term. If yours has been butchered, that might explain things - a poor executed repair or breakage caused by an error of some sort perhaps.

Cheers
 
Utes are Useful!

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Putting paint on means I've started to go forward as well as backwards!

That 6 inch vice on a swivel base is invaluable whether it's to hold a cross member or a treated pine log for chain sawing.

I can wire brush with impunity & the dust doesn't cause a problem.

From that arsenal of wire brushes the Dremel is far & away the most useful except for big areas. I arm it with these thingies:

10 Steel Wire CUP Brush Brushes FR Dremel Foredom Rotary Tool Grinder 1 8" Shank | eBay

10pcs T Shaped Wire Wheel Brushes 3mm Shank FOR Dremel CUP Rotary Tool Sets | eBay

At much less than $1 each it's fairly reasonable.

My procedure is wire brush then douse with phosphoric acid rust inhibitor then finish with a rattle can of semi gloss engine enamel when it dries. Being acidic it acts as a sort of etch primer too.
 
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