Predictable angle from The Guardian. It's now fairly obvious the Luton Airport fire involved the battery in a diesel-hybrid yet it is classed as a diesel fire, which should give you some idea of the integrity of the data behind the eventual 'safe' assertion.
EV alternatives
- Thread starter Steven King
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Jasper Jolly is a bit of an EV evangelist.
"No UK data available" for his article, yet I found some in 5 minutes, I hope he doesn't give up his day job, whatever that is..
Greater London has the highest percentage of "green" tranport in the UK at 14% of a fleet of 2.5 million vehicles.
This is the data the Greater London Fire Brigade supplied under an FOI request for calender year 2023.
Total real (not E-bikes etc) vehicle fires attended 1058
BEV fires 39
Petrol/hybrid 38
Diesel/hybrid 22
"Unknown" 72
Petrol or diesel 886
LPG/propane 1
So even if we said all the unknown fires were petrol, diesel or LPG, that would give a total of
959 out of 1058. New energy vehicles a total of 99 out of 1058.
So roughly 1 in 10.6 Greater London vehicle fires are BEV/hybrid.
But only 1 in 7 vehicles in Greater London are BEV/hybrid?
Yet the government funded schills at EV Firesafe
are quoting near enough a 100 times more likely figure????
EV Firesafe made a statement that there were only 400 odd known EV fires worldwide EVER after the Sydney airport fire. Yet the Chinese government record several thousand every year, go figure?
Jasper has cherry picked his sources to suit his personal agenda.
Or isn't the London Fire Brigade a reliable source?
Statistics are whatever you make of them, on the face of it, (going by the UK data I supplied), an LPG vehicle is over 1000 times less likely to catch on fire than anything else.
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Agree the data is incomplete and sometimes difficult to compare but none of it points to EVs being more likely to catch fire than ICE, so in London 14% of fleet, 10% of fires. Not a lot less, but less.Jasper Jolly is a bit of an EV evangelist.
"No UK data available" for his article, yet I found some in 5 minutes, I hope he doesn't give up his day job, whatever that is..
Greater London has the highest percentage of "green" tranport in the UK at 14% of a fleet of 2.5 million vehicles.
This is the data the Greater London Fire Brigade supplied under an FOI request for calender year 2023.
Total real (not E-bikes etc) vehicle fires attended 1058
BEV fires 39
Petrol/hybrid 38
Diesel/hybrid 22
"Unknown" 72
Petrol or diesel 886
LPG/propane 1
So even if we said all the unknown fires were petrol, diesel or LPG, that would give a total of
959 out of 1058. New energy vehicles a total of 99 out of 1058.
So roughly 1 in 10.6 Greater London vehicle fires are BEV/hybrid.
But only 1 in 7 vehicles in Greater London are BEV/hybrid?
Yet the government funded schills at EV Firesafe
are quoting near enough a 100 times more likely figure????
EV Firesafe made a statement that there were only 400 odd known EV fires worldwide EVER after the Sydney airport fire. Yet the Chinese government record several thousand every year, go figure?
Jasper has cherry picked his sources to suit his personal agenda.
Or isn't the London Fire Brigade a reliable source?
Statistics are whatever you make of them, on the face of it, (going by the UK data I supplied), an LPG vehicle is over 1000 times less likely to catch on fire than anything else.
How neutral is “Full Fact”? | David Scullion | The Critic Magazine
How neutral is “Full Fact”? | David Scullion | The Critic Magazine
Full Fact is the UK’s independent fact checking organisation, or at least, that’s what it says when you go to their website. The team who frequently appear on Radio 4 and TalkRADIO are looking for a…
Yes but an ICE vehicle is many more times likely to be stolen and burnt than a BEV.
For those interested, the following presentation considers Li-ion battery fires and vapour clouds. Note he says towards the end that London is seeing approx 1 Light-EV fire every 2 days and there have been 6 deaths attributed to EV fires in UK to the time of the presentation - May 2023. I've set the start time at a simulation of an e-bike vapour cloud explosion. You will get more out of this if you watch from the start and pause to read the slides.
That's what comes from not waiting until all the facts are known. Yet others then go and rely on the mis-reporting to 'justify' their case. It probably does take a different method to put out a EV fire, but there is little evidence that has been verified by independent third parties that suggests that there is a dramatic increase in vehicle fires as a result of the increasing popularity of EVs.
As a society we all adapt, we now fly around the world in jets, carry a computer in our pockets and society had to make adaptions to deliver those outcomes (stronger airport runways, the adoption of wi-fi, bluetooth and mobile phone towers). I'm sure the clever people in the world's vehicle manufacturers and fire brigades can work out a way to put EV fires out. For example, don't the new Renault EVs have a fire hose connector to the EV Battery under the back seat? I know all Hyundai's with a traction battery have QR codes (another adaption made by society to benefit society) in strategic positions to give first responders the information then need to make the vehicle safe.
It's they way they burn that is so concerning, isn't that obvious? Than there is the increasing likelihood of Li batteries crapping themselves as they age.
Just re Luton. Per one comment I located it appears the emissions by rego are listed publicly and this would fit the fire observations ...
According to the DVLA, E10EFL is a 2014 diesel range rover sport with an emissions of 169gm/km. That is the quoted emissions for a 2014 hybrid RR sport as advertised on autotrader. The plain diesel has an emissions of around 230gm/km.
Think what you like, but like honesty in recent excess deaths and the consequences of building on flood-prone areas, it will most likely be the insurance industry that reveals and sets a price for the risks.
According to the DVLA, E10EFL is a 2014 diesel range rover sport with an emissions of 169gm/km. That is the quoted emissions for a 2014 hybrid RR sport as advertised on autotrader. The plain diesel has an emissions of around 230gm/km.
Think what you like, but like honesty in recent excess deaths and the consequences of building on flood-prone areas, it will most likely be the insurance industry that reveals and sets a price for the risks.
If you had been thinking about a BEV, and because this is a French car forum you might be thinking of a French BEV, just a heads up that there are currently a number of low km Peugeot e-2008 demos on offer for a little over $50K, which is a solid saving vs the new headline pricing.
I've not seen any e-Partner demo vans similarly discounted, but what's the worst response you can get from making an offer?
An old friend treated lowballing dealers as sport. He reckoned he knew when he'd got to the lowest price when the hands went up the air and the salesman said he can't do business at that price.
I've not seen any e-Partner demo vans similarly discounted, but what's the worst response you can get from making an offer?
An old friend treated lowballing dealers as sport. He reckoned he knew when he'd got to the lowest price when the hands went up the air and the salesman said he can't do business at that price.
They would be wroth a shot, if your calculations take into account there will likely be zero resale on them.... and you can live with the limitations of an electric car. The main thing is .... You would have to assume it has zero resale value. its the only sensible thing you can do. No-one wants it new ... .who the hell will want it with leaky, dodgy batteries in 5 years time
My Citroen Berlingo has 275,000 klms on it and the motor never been apart i think.
A "Real World" solution to my needs.
I put a barrier behind the seats and i can cart a couple of sheep.
Hose it out and i can camp in it.
Doesn't catch fire either.
Am i doing something wrong?
A "Real World" solution to my needs.
I put a barrier behind the seats and i can cart a couple of sheep.
Hose it out and i can camp in it.
Doesn't catch fire either.
Am i doing something wrong?
Shane, the battery has a warranty for I think 8 years that it will retain at least 70% capacity and you would have a manufacturer over a barrel from an ACL perspective if it is dead at 5 years! The range just isn't an issue for many people doing a modest daily commuting run. It only becomes a problem for the longer trips. An FBT exemption would help to make it more affordable if salary packaged. A pre-paid service plan rolled into the total financed would also save a few more dollars. You could look into a Guaranteed Final Value (GFV) in the finance deal. It won't be cheap, but would give certainty. GFV has been on offer from Peugeot's finance division on some models, but it would tend to involve higher repayments. I don't know if they are rolling the dice with a GFV offer on BEV residuals.
I can't say I really believe in these warranties unless there is a complete battery failure. That questionable garage episode where he pulled the battery pack out of a telsa and dismantled it.....
Look at how many of the cells look to be leaking.... this would be a low hours car that has sat for a while. maybe the battery sitting for a period of time also causes the cells to break down ?
Either way ... its all just crazy ... nuts ... insane, these batteries don't have a long life in anythign I've ever owned that has them. why would a car with countless cells in it last 20 years ? (the fluffy figure quoted everywhere) when they struggle to last 5 years in most laptops, phones, power tools .... etc...
E10 EFL is a 2016 4.4 litre Diesel Range Rover Sport with emissions of 219g/km. Not a hybrid. Feel free to check it yourself: https://vehicleenquiry.service.gov.uk/
My Citroen Berlingo only managed 134,000 klms before the motor shit it's self.
That comment I mentioned was from mid-October 2023 and shortly after the fire, so presumably it was before the BBQ'd car was written off and so that registration remained current. I would imagine the plates could now have been recycled to another vehicle. No? The registration for the BBQ'd car would surely have been cancelled 6 months on.
I looked up the regos for a few other mild hybrid Range Rovers that were for sale in the UK on the DVLA website. They are all listed as "DIESEL".
It is only when you get into the "normal" hybrids in the later model hybrid Range Rovers that the DVLA acknowledges them as being hybrids.