My new XM

[Armidillo]

...

p.s. Don't let the alternator drown in LHM as it will ruin it. If it retains the original unit, it's not used on other models and is expensive to buy. However, you could fit one from an early C5, but it may be a lower output.

The good news is that the alternator situation is not quite as restricted as that. Although the original Mitsubishi with PSA part # 57051G is marked NFP, there should be alternatives, as the same alternator is specified in Servicebox wherever the ES9J4 or ES9J4S motor was used. There is also a 120 amp alternative, although my preference would be to stay with the original 150 amp specification.

In addition to the XM, V6 Xantias, early V6 C5s, all 406 SVs, late 605 V6s and at least the early 607s all used this alternator. onlinecarparts.co.uk lists 8 suitable units from 6 different manufacturers, ranging in price from 164 pounds to 648 pounds. However some are exchange units, there are 3 different pulley sizes among the 8 and none are in stock .

So the basic thrust of your post remains - they don't grow on trees. If I get really stuck, I have a 406 here which I know has a good alternator .

Cheers

Alec

 

[DoubleChevron]

The good news is that the alternator situation is not quite as restricted as that. Although the original Mitsubishi with PSA part # 57051G is marked NFP, there should be alternatives, as the same alternator is specified in Servicebox wherever the ES9J4 or ES9J4S motor was used. There is also a 120 amp alternative, although my preference would be to stay with the original 150 amp specification.

In addition to the XM, V6 Xantias, early V6 C5s, all 406 SVs, late 605 V6s and at least the early 607s all used this alternator. onlinecarparts.co.uk lists 8 suitable units from 6 different manufacturers, ranging in price from 164 pounds to 648 pounds. However some are exchange units and none are in stock .

So the basic thrust of your post remains - they don't grow on trees. If I get really stuck, I have a 406 here which I know has a good alternator .

Cheers

Alec

ebay uk is your friend

https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=m570.l1313&_nkw=citroen+xm+alternator&_sacat=0

they will be mostly diesel unfortunatly the parts on ebay uk though.

 

[Armidillo]

That's not a service, its a restoration:wink2:

You are too kind Mr. C9 - but it is definitely maintenance/service. The body and interior are in excellent condition - no renovation required. A good wash and polish, plus repair/replacement of a small number of internal items, and it will be almost as good as new (a most unusual situation for my cars)!

Cheers

Alec

 

[pekay49]

sounds like a job for a masseur...or masseur in training.

 

[David S]

The alternator in mine is listed as 150 AMP VALEO(ALTERNAT) - A 14 VI 25 or A 14 VI 17, but you may have a different unit. It can be found in some others, but there are relatively few local ES9 donors compared to the rest and they may have 120A units. Yes, you have options locally and alternate units from O/S via eBay. None will like being soaked in LHM.

 

[Armidillo]

ebay uk is your friend

https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=m570.l1313&_nkw=citroen+xm+alternator&_sacat=0

they will be mostly diesel unfortunately the parts on ebay uk though.

Thanks for that link Shane - Charge Electrical lists a couple that seem to be exactly the right specs, and I'm very impressed with their postage rates!

My dilemma is that my alternator is not dead yet, but the free delivery is estimated to take 2 - 3 weeks. If I wait until it dies before ordering a replacement, I'll be without the car for at least that long. OTH, if I order all the parts to fix things that might fail in the future I would be very unpopular around here! I think I'll have to risk not ordering yet...

And yes, David, those alternatives show up on service box for me too. Does the NFP apply to all 3? It's not clear to me from the formatting...

Cheers

Alec

 

[JAJEA]

Re. sphere replacement: I should 'fess up that undoing them was made easier by my new Draper Expert chain wrench.

View attachment 114032


I find it much easier to use than a strap wrench. It seems to be strong (haven't given it a serious test yet), the double width chain grips well on a sphere or oil filter, and the articulated handle (has 180 degrees of side-to-side movement) allows me to apply torque to the sphere even when space around the sphere is tight.

You won't find these at Bunnings or Supercheap, and they are not the cheapest, but unless/until I break it, it seems to be worth the money.

Cheers

Alec

Very nice, love good tools.
However, I'll stick with the home made.
John

PS: Sorry, unable to load photos. (Alec, how do you do it?) However, I've made one from an old 6" 1/2 drive extension, put a slot in it (~2+mm wide with a grinder) longitudinally the width of seat belt webbing and used and off cut of an old belt. Works very effectively and all all 1/2" drive accessories are available in its use. Quite happy to sent photos to anybody interested via mobile.

 

[Armidillo]

Pollen filter

As everyone in the world (except me) probably already knew, the XM does not have a pollen filter.

I have seen it suggested (by Addo no less) that the 605 unit might be compatible.
http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/citro%EBn-forum/115533-xm-cabin-filter.html
At first glance this seems to show promise – the air intake in the scuttle is identical in shape and fixings.

XM top, 605 bottom. The 605 gets a proper filter, while XM just has a very coarse strainer.

Although the scuttle covers are quite different, the actual dimensions of the scuttle are very similar, but of course there was a catch – there’s a dirty great reinforcing bar in the wrong place!

So the 605 gets to keep it’s tray & filter - I've no idea why the XM needs this extra stiffening while a 605 does not, but I'm not about to doubt Citroen's engineers!

I considered bothering one of the local spare parts shops, to see if there is an air filter or pollen filter made for some other make/model that has similar dimensions, but I chickened out on the basis that they are usually busy people, and that anything I bought would almost certainly need some mods anyway.

So I decided to make one out of stuff from around the house:

This is my first prototype, so not very elegant! I wrapped up a parcel of cushion stuffing in a blue wipe or 2, and stapled the edges. I made it a little larger than the plastic strainer, and taped it into position on the strainer.

The modified screen clipped easily into place. I will check how it's going in a few thousand kms, but I am pretty confident that the original plastic strainer should keep it from getting sucked into the cabin fan , an outcome I'm keen to avoid! Obviously the air intake area is a little reduced - if this turns out to be a problem, I might sew the next one into place.

There is a top tray that sits just above this screen/filter, which prevents water getting into the cabin fan.

I found evidence that someone has been in there before me:

Somebody has cut pieces out of the collar above the cabin fan, to make it easier to refit. I am pretty confident that this is not a factory original feature, as the cut-outs are a little rough, and not quite the same shape. Just the job for a Dremel I would think! I had no problem at all in re-installing this part, so can't comment on whether this butchery was necessary, but it really doesn't look it!

I also conformed that the Fresh/Recycle buttons work as advertised (unlike in my 406 - I had to jam the flap open with a stick to prevent us falling asleep while driving!).

Cheers

Alec

 

[Armidillo]

Passed rego check Thursday!! Went through first time, no issues to rectify! Wednesday evening I was lying under it with the pressure washer in (literally) freezing conditions (-4 by Thursday morning) – worth the effort it seems!

Even though the XM has passed, the exhaust system seems a bit noisy, so I took it to the local muffler man. He kindly put the XM up on his hoist and we had a look. He agreed some of the clamped joints might not be totally gas-tight, and pointed out something I hadn't noticed - the joint behind the middle muffler involves a muffler bandage, and a piece of fencing wire! Left it alone for now, as it actually seems to be doing the job.

This raises an issue however - the engine note is surprisingly intrusive! This car has an ES9J4 motor, and there's no evidence of any modification (although all 3 mufflers have been replaced). Yes it makes a lovely V6 burble, but this is supposed to be a luxury car - I really expected it to be quieter. I don't think there's a problem with the noise from the end of the tailpipe - I leave that behind anyway. It seems to be noise from the engine bay and the upper parts of the exhaust system. Even at 100km/h, if I open the throttle there's a very audible growl. By comparison, we also own a couple of V6 Pugs - a 605 with a PRV motor, and a 406 with an ES9J4S. Both are quieter than the XM, especially the 406.

It's interesting seeing the parts bin engineering at work - the XM, despite having the later motor, shares a number of engine-related components with the PRV-engined 605 eg. coolant header tank, air intake box and exhaust system.

Is it possible that the Pugs are just better soundproofed? I can't see any evidence of anything missing from the XM, such as under-bonnet insulation. The later motor in the 406 does seem more refined, and it has a catalytic converter in each header pipe, which may make it quieter , but the PRV in the 605 is anything but refined, and it's a very quiet car at cruising speeds.

One plus I suppose is that you get lots of feedback if trying to drive for economy - no need to worry about vacuum gauges and the like - just try and minimise the noise .

I do remember DC (Shane) upgrading the insulation in a Citroen, but I can't remember if it was a CX or an XM - maybe both! Pretty sure it made it quieter as well as cooler.

Very interested to hear other's experience and thoughts!

Cheers

Alec

 

[Ken W]

Alec,

Well done on getting it registered.

What do the XMs use as a flexi-joint between the engine manifold and the exhaust system? The BX and Xantia use a spring loaded ball joint with a loaded metal mesh gasket between. If the mesh is worn out, they will growl on acceleration. Also any weepy joints will let a bit of sound out under the car that comes straight up through the floor panels. If you want to see if there are any leaks, get under it and get someone to give it a rev while you put you hand near/around the joint. If it is leaking you will feel a puff of hot air as well as hear some noise. look for leaks that direct puffs of exahust up onto the floor panels as they will be the noisiest in the car.

Drive it for a while and hopefully soot will gradually accumulate and plug all the small leaks and reduce the under car sounds.

Can you hear the engine at 100km/hr and over?

Cheers, Ken

 

[Armidillo]

You might be onto something there Ken! The exhaust system is largely the same as the 605, with a double section towards the back, and a sideways muffler, but I didn't know about the spring loaded joint and the mesh!

It's quiet when cruising, but unexpectedly growly at 100km/h+ when I put my foot down.

 

[forumnoreason]

sexy XM soundz!

 

[JAJEA]

Many Hoons go to a lot trouble to get that sound Alec!
I'd visit the big smoke to drive in one the tunnels, knock it down a cog or two so that you don't get booked and let her rip!

 

[angru]

I had to do the flange gasket in the one that’s (still) sitting out the front of my place waiting to be claimed... that was in 20113 when we got it rego’d. It was the same mesh/ Hayse gasket as the 406 d8 v6.. pretty sure it uses the springs and bolts.. was a pain to do in the car and I remember wishing I’d changed it weeks earlier when the motor was out. I’m sure the whole manifold and exhaust system up to the cat is the same as es9j4 equips 406. I do agree though, that the particular XM I know (too) well is noisier than the (both d8 and d9) 406 vs’s that I’ve regularly driven.

 

[Armidillo]

Thanks guys. Drove from Armidale to Port Macquarie today, and as I had hoped, on the flat cruising sections the car was blissfully quiet. On the windy sections it was, as I've said, noisier than a 406 SV. Will certainly get the flange gasket checked, but the sound I'm hearing does not sound like an exhaust leak.

I may have to accept, as angru has found, that the XM is a bit noisier than an equivalent Pug.

Cheers

Alec

 

[Motorgnome]

Another thing to look at is engine mountings. The left & right engine mountings have a big job to do in the ESJ/ZF XM. That combo weighs in just short of 300kgs.. All supported by two little mounts either end. Gravity eventually wins & they collapse, transferring noise /harshness into the body structure.. I was working on a 607 today, & the drivers mount was rooted. The transmission mount, whilst sagged was not completely collapsed.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using aussiefrogs mobile app

 

[Armidillo]

Thanks - I've looked at the bits of the engine mounts that I can see, & I couldn't see any cracks in the rubber, but on the way back up from Port Macquarie this afternoon I did notice some vibration as well as noise when accelerating, so I really need to look harder.

Apart from that, the weekend jaunt along the Oxley Highway went very well - after 530km, the fuel gauge is still showing more than half full, and with new spheres all round, the ride was just as I imagine the designers intended - floaty! In fact I was glad to switch to sport mode on the windy bits, as it was a bit too floaty on the tight corners! Still need new tyres, but the XM1s still have plenty of tread.

It should be no surprise if the engine mounts need replacing - I paid a mechanic to replace our 406 SV's mounts, and the old ones were so compressed the mechanic initially thought I'd supplied the wrong ones! OTOH, I have owned my PRV-engined 605 for 10 years /120,000km and have so far ignored the engine mounts, as I have not noticed any problems!

Cheers

Alec

 

[Armidillo]

Other work done to date

Before the rego check and the weekend jaunt, the following was also achieved:

Replaced all disk rotors and pads, plus replaced front flexible hoses with HEL Performance braided steel items. Bleeding is so easy with a pressurised hydraulic system – got out heaps of froth and bubble and discoloured fluid, and did it on my own with just a piece of hose and a jug (oh and an extra litre of LHM for topping up the tank). Not a lot of “bite” at first - improving as the pads bed in.

The new front rotors are 27mm thick. Old ones were worn down to about 21mm (minimum thickness supposed to be 24mm) – so previous owners got their money’s worth. New ones feel 50% heavier! Here's a slice of an old one:

Front disk rotor.jpg

Also an old flexible brake hose:

IMG_6538.JPG


Tested compression – 180+/-5 psi on all cylinders.

Installed NGK Iridium plugs – should now be able to forget about plugs for 100,000km – and spark plug leads, which like the rear plugs are inaccessible with intake manifold installed. Replaced the intake manifold gasket – old one came out in pieces.

IMG_6556.JPG

I had planned on replacing the thermostat, but it looks a lot more difficult than I expected. Also left the oil breather ‘octopus’ alone – they can both be done ‘next time’ – which might be sooner than I’d hoped if cam box oil leaks are a problem, or engine behaviour shows signs of air leaks.

Replaced air filter (Purflux panel), and fuel filter. I tipped some dirty fuel out of the filter, but nowhere near as bad as the one I replaced recently on a Xantia SX.

Ran LiquiMoly intake decarb through throttle body and intake manifold, and added LiqiMoly oil flush to sump before draining. Changed oil and filter – old filter was a Sakura - made in Indonesia - and the oil was very dark.

IMG_6515.JPGIMG_6521.JPG

According to invoices supplied and stamp in book, last oil change was 4 years/25,000km ago! Installed Purflux filter, and Penrite 10W50. I normally use Nulon 5W40 in several engines of similar age, but wanted something a little heavier to see if it would minimize oil leaks. Turns out this is the oil Penrite recommend for this engine!

Changed coolant – found and opened the block drains as well as the radiator drain – might be the first time I have done that on any car! Old coolant was green, but looked pretty dilute:

IMG_6544.JPG


Refilled with Nulon Longlife (7 year), mixed 50/50 with distilled water. It was while draining the coolant that I first noticed that the underside of the alternator was quite oily – from the top it looked OK! So it may turn out that I’ve jumped the gun with coolant, if I have to pull the nose off and the radiator out to get access to the LHM pump and alternator.

As I've no doubt said before, this car is overall in very good condition, but evidence suggests overdue for a proper service. Feel like I'm getting there, but still haven't touched the auto trans - still thumps changing into 1st when hot. Snow mode hides that problem! Once I've changed the auto trans fluid, I'll feel that I have moved from servicing mode to trouble-shooting mode.

Only problem I seem to have introduced is that engine now idles a bit roughly, and can even stall, until it is fully warmed up. Will see how it is tomorrow now that it's had a good run, but no doubt there's an air leak somewhere. Lexia reported an intermittent fault in the oxygen sensor when I checked last week - will have to see if that code has returned. At least it's a vastly simpler setup than the ES9J4S in the 406!

Cheers

Alec

 

[Roger Wilkinson]

Nice work, Alec!

Where did you get the new manifold gasket? I could not obtain one from my usual suppliers so I made one.

Roger

 

[Armidillo]

I got it from onlinecarparts.co.uk. I found that they and autodoc.eu (they seem to share the same catalog/suppliers) have a surpisingly good range, for sensible prices. The drawback is their freight charge - c. 110 pounds!!!

However this single charge covers your entire order. Not sure what the limit is, but I got rear disks, pads, thermostat, and the gasket for the XM, plus gear change cables for a Pug 406, all in the one order.

Cheers

Alec