My new XM

[Armidillo]

I need a bit of advice re. the steering bushes - how hard/easy is it to check for free play if they are not obviously damaged?

[FONT=&quot]Over the next few days I'll have someone to lend me a hand. If I get the car up on ramps, with weight on the wheels, should I be able to see slop in the bushes if my helper waggles the steering wheel for me? Engine running presumably (ie. power steering operating)?[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

[/FONT]
Cheers

Alec

 

[Ken W]

Alec,

All you need to do is put it up on some ramps, with the engine running get someone to wiggle the steering wheel back and forth while you watch the power steering ram to see if there is any movement of the ram in the bushes. It shouldn't really move much at all while the wheels should be moving.

I trust you can set this up to view safely from the side.

Cheers, Ken

 

[Armidillo]

So best viewed from the passenger side? I have tried looking from underneath, but really couldn't see much. When I grabbed the ram , I could feel that it was rubber mounted, but didn't feel free to move.

 

[Armidillo]

Not sure what I'd been smoking :crazy: - you can't "grab" the ram (too much other stuff in the road).

Anyway, after more poring over diagrams, and peering into the maze of pipes, I identified the bushes (not very big - but what was I expecting - something the size of an engine mount ?). With engine running (to provide 'power' to the steering), and my offsider waggling the steering wheel, I found no movement at all in the LH (passenger side) bush.

However, the centrally-located, RH bush must be almost non-existent. The eye of the ram had a lot of movement, & I can see how it puts stress on the (metal) hydraulic pipe. Sigh... So the XM is essentially off the road until that little issue is resolved.

Next question. I can feel a significant amount of shaking through the steering wheel when travelling over uneven surfaces - could this be explained by shot ram bushes, or should I still be looking for other problems?

Cheers

Alec

 

[ajm212]

Here's a photo of the bushes we took out of my XM recently.

The cylinder one was complete mush while there was, at worst, only minor erosion of the rubber on the piston end one. I chose to replace both on the basis of making it a once in a lifetime experience!

 

[Armidillo]

Went searching on SparesBox for the bushes I need - no listing of a P/S ram bush for XM. Also checked some Xantia models - nothing.

Fortunately I have it on very good authority that the part number I want is 4059 10. Shock, horror, PSA still has stock of these, although they will only admit to them fitting AXs and Saxos.

Had a look on eBay - nothing - so went to Rexbo/Autodoc. They not only list this part, but offer a choice of 2 brands - Sasic and Imperium. What's more, they confirm that the part is suitable for XMs, & Xantias as well as AXs and Saxos - also used on Pug 405s, 406s etc. etc... The price seems very reasonable - less than 3 pounds (GBP) per bush!

Their description is a bit vague (bush, steering shaft), but the pictures look just like ajm212's (above). However, at the moment I am leaning toward ordering the "genuine" part from an Australian Citroen dealer, unless I can quickly come up with a lot more parts that I urgently need, as Autodoc/Rexbo charge 111 GBP (yes pounds) per order :crazy:. Actually I already knew that, having dealt with them before, but it still leads to a sharp intake of breath every time I read it!

Naturally, if anyone has a couple of these bushes that they would like to sell, I would be most interested!

Cheers

Alec

 

[David S]

They are on offer via eBay and with less expensive postage! For example ...
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/SILENTBLOCK-STEERING-GEAR-SASIC-SAS0594104/283441950415
They are not especially expensive via the local dealer, but probably ex-France.
It's just not listed as a separate part for XM, but is for some other models as you have discovered.

If you are working on the steering, remember there were two sizes of tie rod. Yours has the later, larger diameter tie-rods, tie-rod ends and outer, left boot. You can swap early and late parts as a set if need be, but not individually. If stuck for the correct boot, you can fit a late, larger, outer left boot to an early tie-rod by adding a piece of hose as shown here:

 

[forumnoreason]

Not sure what I'd been smoking :crazy: - you can't "grab" the ram (too much other stuff in the road).

Anyway, after more poring over diagrams, and peering into the maze of pipes, I identified the bushes (not very big - but what was I expecting - something the size of an engine mount ?). With engine running (to provide 'power' to the steering), and my offsider waggling the steering wheel, I found no movement at all in the LH (passenger side) bush.

However, the centrally-located, RH bush must be almost non-existent. The eye of the ram had a lot of movement, & I can see how it puts stress on the (metal) hydraulic pipe. Sigh... So the XM is essentially off the road until that little issue is resolved.

Next question. I can feel a significant amount of shaking through the steering wheel when travelling over uneven surfaces - could this be explained by shot ram bushes, or should I still be looking for other problems?

Cheers

Alec

that rattle could be lower ball joints? worth raising and having a feel around for slop, jam a bar in to see.

 

[ajm212]

As I think you know, I went through this exercise quite recently, not finding any part number for the XM part on service box. I ended up ordering part 4059 11 from OS on the basis that these, while specified for the Picasso, would fit the XM and Xantia (and they do). Around the same time, agru offered me a set of 4059 10s which I bought and fitted. These are exactly the same as the ones we removed from my XM so you should have no problems with them, at least for a decade or so.

For the record part 4059 11, which is referred to an articulation rather than a bush, is constructed rather differently to 4059 10.

I thought they looked less substantial but they have offer less room for movement. The rubber at the top and bottom conceal metal rings and central metal bushing is larger at its top and bottom.

Andrew

 

[Armidillo]

They are on offer via eBay and with less expensive postage! For example ...
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/SILENTBLOCK-STEERING-GEAR-SASIC-SAS0594104/283441950415
They are not especially expensive via the local dealer, but probably ex-France.
It's just not listed as a separate part for XM, but is for some other models as you have discovered.

If you are working on the steering, remember there were two sizes of tie rod. Yours has the later, larger diameter tie-rods, tie-rod ends and outer, left boot. You can swap early and late parts as a set if need be, but not individually. If stuck for the correct boot, you can fit a late, larger, outer left boot to an early tie-rod by adding a piece of hose as shown here:

Thanks David - I'm not (yet) aware of any problems with tie rods, boots etc., but good to know!

 

[Armidillo]

that rattle could be lower ball joints? worth raising and having a feel around for slop, jam a bar in to see.

Yes, I've realised that now is the time to make sure that all steering components are within spec - the car passed a rego check back in June, so shouldn't be too much wrong, but you never know!

 

[Armidillo]

As I think you know, I went through this exercise quite recently, not finding any part number for the XM part on service box. I ended up ordering part 4059 11 from OS on the basis that these, while specified for the Picasso, would fit the XM and Xantia (and they do). Around the same time, agru offered me a set of 4059 10s which I bought and fitted. These are exactly the same as the ones we removed from my XM so you should have no problems with them, at least for a decade or so.

For the record part 4059 11, which is referred to an articulation rather than a bush, is constructed rather differently to 4059 10.

I thought they looked less substantial but they have offer less room for movement. The rubber at the top and bottom conceal metal rings and central metal bushing is larger at its top and bottom.

Andrew

So the newer design bushes have more metal and less rubber, implying less movement when they wear out? Presumably the downside would be some increase in transmission of roadshock, vibration etc...

Like you, I am inclined to fit the original items - should be someone else's problem by the time they fail!

 

[pugrambo]

Looks like 4HP20 filter can only be changed with box dismantled, so I'll focus on the oil changes.

I know it’s been a long time since I’ve posted here for a reason but in answer to this question
Yes the box needs to come apart to do the filter
This is best done when you take the engine out to fix oil leaks and replace the timing belt, believe me it’s so easy to do the belt out of the car and the engine can be sitting on the ground in around 90mins
The box is quite easy to split and is noth8ng to be afraid of
As electronic as they make out the box is it’s really very mechanical and simple
If you ever want to know how to change the filter let me know

 

[Stuey]

Howdy Rambo! :wink2:

 

[Armidillo]

G'day Rambo, long time no hear!

It sounds as if you are speaking from personal experience with XMs, as Jason Hantos gave me exactly the same advice re. engine out to do everything! One auto fluid change has helped smooth out the thumps - need to get on and change the p/s ram bushes and actually use the car! I am thinking that next year I might have to bite the bullet and get everything done properly, as it does leak oil ...

Is your signature still more or less accurate? Hope you still have some interesting cars!

Just realised you were trying to re-home the 306 & the 605 in 2014 - can't remember if I was aware of that at the time. My 605 is still going strong - approaching 200,000km, but getting more battered every year - too many roos about at the moment. My young nephew has the use of it at the moment - he has been pleasantly surprised with how well it goes, and has been quite complimentary about the old girl (but then he lacks pre-conceptions about cars older than he is)!

Cheers

Alec

 

[pugrambo]

Hey Stuey, I'm baaaaack

 

[pugrambo]

G'day Alec

Ahh yes, the joys of XM ownership
How did you go finding the correct oil for your transmission ?
I rebuilt the 4HP20, dead simple job I must say, the most expensive part was getting another one for 'parts' bearing in mind that although the 406 has the same box they differ slightly as per the engines
In regards to oil leaks and other bits, yes take the engine and box out , it's actually very simple and the most difficult part is getting to the exhaust bolts
I still have the 605, also have 604's still and a 3008 and still the 406 wagon which is sitting in waiting for a new clutch (simple job for a change)

 

[Armidillo]

Goodness - another Yr 2000 XM! Does yours also lay claim to being the last one sold in Australia? Another AFer (angru? ajm212?) has an XM with a slightly later VIN than mine but mine has the later first registration/warranty start date. Anyway, mine has it's picture in Wikipedia (as the illustration of a Series II hatchback) .

BTW - you were mentioned earlier in this thread (post #72) so it's very fitting that you've now contributed to it!

Re. the 4HP20 rebuild - reassuring that you refer to it as a 'dead simple job' - mine was done in 2010 (at 107,000 km), and the poor owner was charged $2,800 for the rebuild (trade price) + $2,000 to remove and refit! Another 'sealed for life' success story!

Re. ATF - one of the advantages of buying this car was that it came with it's own (substantial) supply of LT71141 - thanks Mike (previous owner) - but when I need more I will go to the local Mobil distributor (who are happy to sell product to whoever walks in the door) or else I'll contact the Tamworth Total distributor, who regularly delivers to Armidale .

Does your XM have the original exhaust layout? Mike had a new rear exhaust system fitted (from the centre muffler back), but he probably didn't realise that the new system was actually made for a PRV - diagrams of the 2 layouts are in post #134 (page 6). I am hopeful that it doesn't make much difference, but there must have been a reason for PSA to change it . Anyway - power and fuel economy are both better than for the 605, so it's no big deal.

Are you still in Sir Henry's town? Sooner or later I'll be going to Canberra in the XM - would be nice to vary the usual route choice!

Cheers

Alec

 

[pugrambo]

Mine was first reg'd 7/9/2000

The person i bought it from was the daughter of the original owner so it's a one owner car until now of course
Yes I bought some transmission oil from Penrith and freighted it up, only available in 20L drums but when you pull one apart and there is nothing left in it it takes quite a bit to refill and I can tell you it's best to get most of it in there before putting the engine back in the car and then check the level after the car is warm
Sadly the boxes we got here didn't come with dipsticks, don't worry i thought about drilling the blank out and retrofitting one

Mine is pretty much straight through from front to rear and a single pipe and oddly a little more burble than my wagon which is missing one muffler

Be interesting to see the difference in fuel usage between the XM and my wagon
Both the same engine


Still in Henry's town, still pet shopping away

What colour XM is yours ?

 

[Armidillo]

Silver - or officially Gris Quartz. Actually just realised I don't know the date of first registration - it was 'delivered' on 7/12/2000, but the warranty start date was 31/12/2000 .

Similar story - one extra owner. Original owner passed it on to his son, who sold it to Mike in 2015, then I picked it up in March this year.

With this car, I don't think I need to lust after a CX, or even an SM! Plenty of power, plenty of spheres.

Cheers

Alec

PS - Your straight-through single pipe exhaust is definitely not original, but I expect you knew that.