My new challenge - 1964 ID19F Safari

I don't think new would be very cheap but the s/h market is full of them. I got quite a few from U-pull-it off older Fords and such for 20 bucks or so. Some were gunky some were clean, but they were all in good nick and cleaned up a treat. A carby place I found would bring them back to new. Butterfly spindles can wear, it's antimony after all. I think at some point they put bronze bushings in them that can be replaced. I even put teflon sealed ball bearings in a few, worked a treat.
 
schlitzaugen said:
I don't think new would be very cheap but the s/h market is full of them. I got quite a few from U-pull-it off older Fords and such for 20 bucks or so. Some were gunky some were clean, but they were all in good nick and cleaned up a treat. A carby place I found would bring them back to new. Butterfly spindles can wear, it's antimony after all. I think at some point they put bronze bushings in them that can be replaced. I even put teflon sealed ball bearings in a few, worked a treat.
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Mmmm, the alloy of carby body castings contains very little antimony, if any.
Antimony as an alloying element is mainly used in lead alloys to improve strength, but not in aluminium alloys.

The spindles in Webers generally last a long time, unless the hold down nuts have been overtightened and warped the carby base, this tends to bind the spindle, which then wears an oval hole.
The DS throttle linkage with the torque rod is very gentle on the spindle however the link between the 2 spindles puts quite a bit of stress on the bearings.
Because the spindles are brass or bronze, replacement bushes should be a soft alloy.
I have once, made new spindles with slightly oversize bearing journals, and a gentle ream of the body.
 
You may be right, maybe I was thinking of Zinc or something like that. I know they came back from the cleaners a darker shade of grey than you would expect from Aluminium. Either way, they're a very fragile metal.

Larger ones like the side draught Dellortos and so on are Aluminium.
 
Buttercup said:
Mmmm, the alloy of carby body castings contains very little antimony, if any.
Antimony as an alloying element is mainly used in lead alloys to improve strength, but not in aluminium alloys.

The spindles in Webers generally last a long time, unless the hold down nuts have been overtightened and warped the carby base, this tends to bind the spindle, which then wears an oval hole.
The DS throttle linkage with the torque rod is very gentle on the spindle however the link between the 2 spindles puts quite a bit of stress on the bearings.
Because the spindles are brass or bronze, replacement bushes should be a soft alloy.
I have once, made new spindles with slightly oversize bearing journals, and a gentle ream of the body.
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One of the cars here looks like its had nylon bushes fitted. The owner took it to a friend that was a carby expert after I said to him "It probably needs the carby cleaned and checked". he reamed out the spindles and fitted bushes, the bushes looked to be nylon from memory... I probably should pull it back apart and see how it was done. Its a pity he fitted the throttle butterfly backwards so it wedged in the bore and didn't close properly after his good work ...
 
DoubleChevron said:
One of the cars here looks like its had nylon bushes fitted. The owner took it to a friend that was a carby expert after I said to him "It probably needs the carby cleaned and checked". he reamed out the spindles and fitted bushes, the bushes looked to be nylon from memory... I probably should pull it back apart and see how it was done. Its a pity he fitted the throttle butterfly backwards so it wedged in the bore and didn't close properly after his good work ...
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Oops!
 
The “hunt for red October” continues… and starting to annoy me. Here is the current situation:

After fixing the broken rocker shaft I also found a bent push rod, so that got straightened as well, valves set up again…

Coil has been changed
Condenser is still the old one, but I have a new one on stand by
Checked points gap and condition - 0.4mm and seems ok
HT Leads, distributor cap and finger are new
Haven’t touched the carbie / set up yet

Engine now coughs - more at higher revs and doesn’t rev overly easily (see video). It seemed to be running ok-ish the first couple of trips until the rocker stud issue… why would it now not run smoothly again? Blocked carbie nozzles, still something not right with the ignition/distributor/timing? Engine was also boiling easily and pushing water out of the radiator overflow. Removed the new thermostat, seemed to have improved it, but the engine ist running well enough to test it - so might still be an issue.


Thoughts anyone? Appreciate the help as always.

Sven
 
bleudanube said:
The “hunt for red October” continues… and starting to annoy me. Here is the current situation:

After fixing the broken rocker shaft I also found a bent push rod, so that got straightened as well, valves set up again…

Coil has been changed
Condenser is still the old one, but I have a new one on stand by
Checked points gap and condition - 0.4mm and seems ok
HT Leads, distributor cap and finger are new
Haven’t touched the carbie / set up yet

Engine now coughs - more at higher revs and doesn’t rev overly easily (see video). It seemed to be running ok-ish the first couple of trips until the rocker stud issue… why would it now not run smoothly again? Blocked carbie nozzles, still something not right with the ignition/distributor/timing? Engine was also boiling easily and pushing water out of the radiator overflow. Removed the new thermostat, seemed to have improved it, but the engine ist running well enough to test it - so might still be an issue.


Thoughts anyone? Appreciate the help as always.

Sven
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Are you sure the timing isn't massively retarded ... or even timed on the wrong cylinder. I'd go back to basics, get No1 at TDC, make sure the rotor button is point towards No1 ... and work through everything again (ignoring the timing hole in the flywheel incase its in the wrong spot)
 
We've got to find out what that "spitting" is. Does it get perceptibly louder one side of the block to the other? Do you own a mechanic's stethoscope? It sounds almost like exhaust gas is building up then escaping.
 
DoubleChevron said:
Are you sure the timing isn't massively retarded ... or even timed on the wrong cylinder. I'd go back to basics, get No1 at TDC, make sure the rotor button is point towards No1 ... and work through everything again (ignoring the timing hole in the flywheel incase its in the wrong spot)
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I am 99.9% sure the sequence is right. 1,3,4,2… finger aligns with the leads and cap. I will check the timing again tomorrow. It was fine, but maybe I got it wrong…
 
I would follow Double C' s advice and start over fresh. Check everything, including carby before trying to start again.

I would also inspect inside of cylinders and perhaps a leakdown test or compression test, whichever one you can perform easier to check for a blown head gasket.

What has happened to you is pretty serious and who knows what else can be wrong now?

About the condenser if you have a new one try that first. These capacitors start to fail by leaking DC so they are slowly transforming into a resistor instead of a capacitor. Even a new one can be bad if it has sat around for a long time. If you keep having problems with it, take my advice and go get one from an electronics shop in the value range I mentioned, either polypropylene or mica. Get a good quality one (RS components is my preferred supplier).
 
Buttercup said:
Certainly fuel issues can cause severe changes in power, with resultant kangaroo hopping, and unpleasant forces on the occupants, but it's usually* all cylinders at once, over several revs of the engine.
The problem here, appears much more brief and on individual cylinders.
* If you have a badly fouled plug, or a bad lead, a fuel lean-ness will cause individual cylinder miss.

In my opinion, the circumstances here tend to indicate a spark problem.
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Most carburettor problems are electrical. Just ask a carby specialist. :)
 
Still sounds like the condenser to me.
Without anything to quench the arc at the points, magnetic flux in the coil is wasted on the arc, rather than generating the voltage spike.
As revs rise, the coil receives less flux, the duration of the arc before the spark occurs becomes less tolerable and more variable, and perhaps eventually the points close again before the arc quenches.
The condenser matches to the coil not the distributor, but any is better than none.
As mentioned by others, check the distributor earth strap and check the centrifugal advance and spark reliability with a timing light.
Condensers fail with heat.
 
Condensor first.

Must, must, must only change one thing at a time......... otherwise you/we will never know.
 
The apparent hot running, may simply be natural expansion. It has to escape somewhere.
The old systems without expansion tank, find their own level an inch or so down below the cap. If the tops of the core tubes in the radiator are covered it's ok.
Don't keep topping it up, just check it daily for a while, then weekly.
Is there a temp gauge?
If not, you might carry a laser pointer type thermometer, and check it regularly until you are confident it's good.
Point it at the water pump housing.

Test your thermostat, by putting it in a saucepan of water, with a cooking thermometer, slowly bring it to the boil.
It should start to open between 72° and 76°, and be fully open before 90°C.
 
bleudanube said:
The “hunt for red October” continues… and starting to annoy me. Here is the current situation:

After fixing the broken rocker shaft I also found a bent push rod, so that got straightened as well, valves set up again…

Coil has been changed
Condenser is still the old one, but I have a new one on stand by
Checked points gap and condition - 0.4mm and seems ok
HT Leads, distributor cap and finger are new
Haven’t touched the carbie / set up yet

Engine now coughs - more at higher revs and doesn’t rev overly easily (see video). It seemed to be running ok-ish the first couple of trips until the rocker stud issue… why would it now not run smoothly again? Blocked carbie nozzles, still something not right with the ignition/distributor/timing? Engine was also boiling easily and pushing water out of the radiator overflow. Removed the new thermostat, seemed to have improved it, but the engine ist running well enough to test it - so might still be an issue.


Thoughts anyone? Appreciate the help as always.

Sven
Click to expand...
That sounds like sh#t, I'm watching the throttle movement in the background, and for what looks like a lot of movement, not much response is happening at the engine?
When the revs do come up it sounds like a 2 stroke does when it starts "4 stroking".
2 strokes do this when the mixture is too rich to fire every time, hence the 4 stroking term.
A very lean or very rich mixture on a 4 stroke will do the same thing.

At this stage I would just wind it with the coil wire pulled to check the compression. If a cylinder has enough leakage to be problematic (so far as engine's running quality) you'll hear the lazy one as it winds over. Alternatively use the crank handle to check the resistance on each cylinder.

Compression, good spark at the right time and the correct fuel/air mix.

If the compression seems ok, tick the compression box.

New coil, I presume the correct non resistor type? New condensor, points gap checked, points wiring checked for internal fracturing and distributor earth lead in place? New cap and rotor, carbon button is still in situ in the cap, they fall out sometimes?
New HT leads, new or very clean spark plugs.
Ignition timing checked. Tick the ignition box.

Put the fuel line in a soft drink bottle, should be half full after < 10 seconds of cranking. Check the inlet filter. Remove the jets, whether they look clear or not, blow through them in case there's a water droplet in there. Not sure about the jets in your model carby, but if they are interchangeable (ie the same thread), check that the pilot and main jets are the right sizes and in their rightful places, not transposed. While the jets are out blow through their galleyways using a small piece of hose. Check the functioning of the needle and seat. Check the float level. Check the accelerator pump is delivering a fine stream into the carby's throat. Tick the fuel box.

If all these are correct it should run sweet as a nut 99.9 times out of a 100.

If not then you have to start looking for more random sh#t.
Low voltage at the low tension side of the coil.
Faulty new ignition parts (unlikely).
Air leakage at manifold to head or carby base gasket, missing inlet manifold bung/s.
Incorrect ignition timing marks.
Incorrect valve timing and/or cam timing marks.
Faulty ignition switch/wiring, test for this by hotwiring the coil.
Sh#t petrol, it goes "off" very quickly these days.

If all else fails I have good running DS sedan that I can swap you for it, then it could be my headache. That's the kind of guy I am.😉
 
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FWIW, I once made the mistake of thinking the rotor on a 1911cc engine went counterclockwise instead of clockwise. Knowing the firing order was 1-3-4-2, I put the HT leads on the dizzy in that order counterclockwise. This meant, of course that only 1 and 4 were firing at the end of the compression stroke (2 and 3 were firing at the end of exhaust). The engine sounded rather like the video. The car would idle smoothly and would move under its own power, but sputtered intermittently and made no power.
 
citroenthusiast said:
FWIW, I once made the mistake of thinking the rotor on a 1911cc engine went counterclockwise instead of clockwise. Knowing the firing order was 1-3-4-2, I put the HT leads on the dizzy in that order counterclockwise. This meant, of course that only 1 and 4 were firing at the end of the compression stroke (2 and 3 were firing at the end of exhaust). The engine sounded rather like the video. The car would idle smoothly and would move under its own power, but sputtered intermittently and made no power.
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Good point, it's a little hard to be 100% sure, but on the video the leads do appear run 1342 in a clockwise direction? One more thing for Sven to triple check however.👍
 
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