My new challenge - 1964 ID19F Safari

Ok, end of the day and beer time - the engine is running again…,

Found a stud, installed it, set up all the valves again to be 100% sure I didn’t mix up any TDC with the wrong valve play - that all looks and feels right again now.

Bought a new coil, no one had a condenser… just got blank looks from the kids at the counter, so for now the old one is back in with a new coil. Double checked all the leads, cap and finger - all good.

Pushed the button and she started nicely and runs quietly. Will take her for a spin round the block again tomorrow.

Once I get my hands on a condenser I replace it and that would make the whole show brand new.

Next will be to see whether the carbie is really running that rich and adjust as required…

Thanks for everyone’s help and ideas - the fun of car restorations, eh!?
 
bleudanube said:
Ok, end of the day and beer time - the engine is running again…,

Found a stud, installed it, set up all the valves again to be 100% sure I didn’t mix up any TDC with the wrong valve play - that all looks and feels right again now.

Bought a new coil, no one had a condenser… just got blank looks from the kids at the counter, so for now the old one is back in with a new coil. Double checked all the leads, cap and finger - all good.

Pushed the button and she started nicely and runs quietly. Will take her for a spin round the block again tomorrow.

Once I get my hands on a condenser I replace it and that would make the whole show brand new.

Next will be to see whether the carbie is really running that rich and adjust as required…

Thanks for everyone’s help and ideas - the fun of car restorations, eh!?
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I would see how it goes, if that exhaust valve wasn't opening at all, the burnt and possibly unburnt fuel from that cylinder would have been getting recycled back through the inlet valve into the inlet manifold. This would give a "rich" appearance to the plugs.
 
bleudanube said:
Bought a new coil, no one had a condenser… just got blank looks from the kids at the counter,
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Not sure what part stores you have nearby but Repco list GL103-C as a stock item. This is for an early Holden 6 as well as many other cars. When I checked for availability pretty well every store came up with a green tick. The lead is probably a little shorter than the Ducellier one but if you screw the condensor on horizontally it will reach the stud for the wire OK. The Fuelmiser part number for the same item is LC103.

Yes the knowledge is a little lacking these days. I remember asking for a water pump gasket for a Holden red motor not that long ago, same thing, young guy gave me blank look. Once I explained it more thoroughly I got "no we wouldn't have one for something that old".
"But the red, blue and black motors are all the same" I said, "they were Holdens main production engine for over 20 years" I said.
"No wouldn't have one", didn't even try and look it up on the computer.
Luckily an older guy who was serving someone else overheard and sang out " Dylan it's part number #####".🤷‍♂️

I'm guessing he could have sold me an awesome set of speakers though.🙄
 
Greenpeace said:
Not sure what part stores you have nearby but Repco list GL103-C as a stock item. This is for an early Holden 6 as well as many other cars. When I checked for availability pretty well every store came up with a green tick. The lead is probably a little shorter than the Ducellier one but if you screw the condensor on horizontally it will reach the stud for the wire OK. The Fuelmiser part number for the same item is LC103.

Yes the knowledge is a little lacking these days. I remember asking for a water pump gasket for a Holden red motor not that long ago, same thing, young guy gave me blank look. Once I explained it more thoroughly I got "no we wouldn't have one for something that old".
"But the red, blue and black motors are all the same" I said, "they were Holdens main production engine for over 20 years" I said.
"No wouldn't have one", didn't even try and look it up on the computer.
Luckily an older guy who was serving someone else overheard and sang out " Dylan it's part number #####".🤷‍♂️

I'm guessing he could have sold me an awesome set of speakers though.🙄
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Chances are he wouldn't have known an awesome set of speakers if they walked up and bit him on the bum.
We have the same thing here- parts guys that haven't the faintest clue. If it doesn't show up on their screen, it doesn't exist.
 
Hotrodelectric said:
Chances are he wouldn't have known an awesome set of speakers if they walked up and bit him on the bum.
We have the same thing here- parts guys that haven't the faintest clue. If it doesn't show up on their screen, it doesn't exist.
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You're probably right about the speakers too.😄

On the other hand there is a guy in his 50s at one of the local "big smoke" brake suppliers that is unreal.
I'm always chasing brake kits for non mainstream vehicles (the unkind would say "f#cking weird shit"). Most times he'll look it up and go "haven't got a kit on the shelf". Then he'll proceed to go from aisle to aisle and shelf to shelf pulling bits out of different boxes.

"P-p-piece from here and a p-p-piece from there"; mmm that would make a good movie line.🤔

I digress, "that'll get you out of trouble" he'll say as he tips the bits into a sandwich bag.👍

Sad thing is, in a few more years he'll be retired and replaced with someone that can't put their cap on the right way round.😔
 
Supercheap in Mentone had condensors on the shelf last time I checked. Back right corner with the sparkplugs and HT leads. You won't find the exact part number that's in the manuals but it's Just a case of finding one with a close capacitance value and adapting the wiring to suit. You may have better luck at other places asking for a condensor with value X rather than quoting Ducellier part numbers and Citroen models at the guys. Most of the time if you say Citroen DS to them, they will bring up the DS3, 4 and 5. The guys at Repco in Warrigul Rd never had a problem hunting through the racks to find parts that matched whatever random DS bit I brought in.
 
Condensers are all the same, bar the length of wire sticking out. You can even buy one at the likes of Jaycar, it's not going to look like the auto ones but it's the same thing. You need about 220nF at the highest voltage they have (600V or higher). That said, if you have to choose between a lower value, say 100nF at a higher voltage I would suggest you take the one with the higher rated voltage. Capacitance is not that important here. By voltage I mean working voltage (i.e. maximum voltage the capacitor should be subjected to). In modern capacitors, this is very important. Older capacitors were a lot more tolerant of higher than rated voltages applied. These days, they'll blow up. Don't sweat the value too much, they have a tolerance of +/-20% anyway.
 
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Ken W said:
How did the roadworthy inspection go?
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Found some more issues that need fixing first - after changing the stud the engine still isn’t running well, so I cancelled it for today. We are away the next few days… so I am aiming for next week now - fingers crossed 🤞. I will keep everyone posted!
 
schlitzaugen said:
Condensers are all the same, bar the length of wire sticking out.
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Correct, I pulled one out of a decrepit old VW Beetle once and used it in a Toyota Century Hemi V8, ran like a champ.
A coils a coil, points are points, a plugs a plug, the condensor doesn't care what badge is on the car.
 
The only thing about coils is to make sure they are a resistor type if you need a resistor type or a non resistor type if that's what you need. Resistor types (generally speaking) have an "R" in their name at the end. I would go for a non resistor type and use an external resistor if need be if it were my car. At least that way you take out of the equation one more internal part that can go wrong and you can go both ways if you find yourself stranded in a place with little choice available off the shelf.

You can adjust fuel mixture on carbies playing with the height of the float (amongst other thigns), but in your case, you would have driven what? You say a few hundred meters? I wouldn't base my diagnosis on that. Your engine was probably still cold and you didn't tell us if the choke was in or out so I assume it was still in hence a rather normal rich mixture.

If you want to know what your fuel mixture is doing at whatever condition, you need to drive the car at that point for a little bit, then shut it off abruptly and coast to the side and pull the plugs. That'll give you a reliable reading. Say you want to know what is the fuel mixture at part throttle. Drive at part throttle for a while and then do as above. Full throttle, likewise. Progression will show in all sorts of transition symptoms, generally speaking the car will stumble when you floor it from partial throttle and so on.

All said, I would suggest you get yourself a nice decent carby (I favour the 32/36 DGV) and stick that on. Tuned correctly it will give you more power and much better fuel economy! These are infinitely tuneable and there's a shedload of info on the 'nets for it.
 
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I'd just put on any condenser .... That's a good point, if you have fitted a coil that is internally ballasted, bypass the filewall resistor!
 
Quoting Schlitzaugen: "All said, I would suggest you get yourself a nice decent carby (I favour the 32/36 DGV) and stick that on. Tuned correctly it will give you more power and much better fuel economy! These are infinitely tuneable and there's a shedload of info on the 'nets for it."

Have you one fitted to yours? What jets are fitted? Thanks
 
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Make sure the little earth lead from the distributor to engine block is connected. Easily over looked if the dizzy has been out & results in mysterious misfires. Don't ask ! :giggle:
 
badabec said:
Quoting Schlitzaugen: "All said, I would suggest you get yourself a nice decent carby (I favour the 32/36 DGV) and stick that on. Tuned correctly it will give you more power and much better fuel economy! These are infinitely tuneable and there's a shedload of info on the 'nets for it."

Have you one fitted to yours? What jets are fitted? Thanks
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No, I don't have a DS or any Citroen for that matter. But I did have a DGV installed on my BMW 2000 in place of a single throat Solex and then another 2000 CS, and then my R12 and my R17 (replacing single and double throat carbies respectively). Every time I did that, the cars run better, I had more power and better fuel efficiency. That was the big surprise.

The DGV is a progressive carby so at low loads it will behave like a single throat and then when you put your foot down it will become a different animal. I initially read about the carby on the BMW SCCA page (US) where they have (or had) a racing class for BMW2002 limited to the DGV 32/36 and they get up to 180-200HP out of it. Hence there is a huge wealth of info for tuning this carby on their page. And then Datsuns use it, Escorts use it, Toyotas, pretty much any engine under 2000cc and even some over that use it in multiple carby setups. Have a look on the web, just search "DGV 32/36 tuning". It is a really beautiful thing, that carby.
 
schlitzaugen said:
No, I don't have a DS or any Citroen for that matter. But I did have a DGV installed on my BMW 2000 in place of a single throat Solex and then another 2000 CS, and then my R12 and my R17 (replacing single and double throat carbies respectively). Every time I did that, the cars run better, I had more power and better fuel efficiency. That was the big surprise.

The DGV is a progressive carby so at low loads it will behave like a single throat and then when you put your foot down it will become a different animal. I initially read about the carby on the BMW SCCA page (US) where they have (or had) a racing class for BMW2002 limited to the DGV 32/36 and they get up to 180-200HP out of it. Hence there is a huge wealth of info for tuning this carby on their page. And then Datsuns use it, Escorts use it, Toyotas, pretty much any engine under 2000cc and even some over that use it in multiple carby setups. Have a look on the web, just search "DGV 32/36 tuning". It is a really beautiful thing, that carby.
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Mmmm....... the 2 throat Weber on most Dees is a good progressive carby. Early were 24/32, later 28/36.
2nd throat only starts at half throttle.
Early IDs with single 34 Solex were improved with the Weber.

I doubt you'll get any improvement over the original Weber, (we are not interested in racing, are we?.......... surely not!)
Citroen spent a lot of time with Weber getting them right for the various engine specs they used over the years.
Just make sure it's working properly, no leaks, original jets, float set right, screwed inlet fitting, clean the inlet strainer, make a new top gasket for it.

If the base is warped you might get it straightened or machined
Or, (my preference) make a sandwich gasket for it.
 
Buttercup said:
Mmmm....... the 2 throat Weber on most Dees is a good progressive carby. Early were 24/32, later 28/36.
2nd throat only starts at half throttle.
Early IDs with single 34 Solex were improved with the Weber.

I doubt you'll get any improvement over the original Weber, (we are not interested in racing, are we?.......... surely not!)
Citroen spent a lot of time with Weber getting them right for the various engine specs they used over the years.
Just make sure it's working properly, no leaks, original jets, float set right, screwed inlet fitting, clean the inlet strainer, make a new top gasket for it.

If the base is warped you might get it straightened or machined
Or, (my preference) make a sandwich gasket for it.
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Always thought a pair of polished HS6 SUs would look nice under there. Get the alloy inlet "snorkel" off a 105 P4 Rover that curls up and over the rocker cover and you could even keep the stock DS air cleaner.😁
 
Buttercup said:
Mmmm....... the 2 throat Weber on most Dees is a good progressive carby. Early were 24/32, later 28/36.
2nd throat only starts at half throttle.
Early IDs with single 34 Solex were improved with the Weber.

I doubt you'll get any improvement over the original Weber, (we are not interested in racing, are we?.......... surely not!)
Citroen spent a lot of time with Weber getting them right for the various engine specs they used over the years.
Just make sure it's working properly, no leaks, original jets, float set right, screwed inlet fitting, clean the inlet strainer, make a new top gasket for it.

If the base is warped you might get it straightened or machined
Or, (my preference) make a sandwich gasket for it.
Click to expand...
I'm sure the current carby is okay for the job.

But

I am sure Renault, BMW, practically everybody spent a lot of time developing carbies together with Weber for each car. And then Weber spent a lot of time developing other carbies that are way better. Keep in mind, a manufacturer's requirement may favour one thing or another, a carby manufacturer's agenda may be very different.

I hesitated a lot before I took the plunge because I was like everybody else who thought carbies are some sort of black magic better not messed with but once I did I never looked back. The owner said current carby does not have a mixture screw (by design). That would be enough reason to move to a better carby for me.

Either way, the change is totally reversible.
 
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schlitzaugen said:
I'm sure the current carby is okay for the job.

But

I am sure Renault, BMW, practically everybody spent a lot of time developing carbies together with Weber for each car. And then Weber spent a lot of time developing other carbies that are way better. Keep in mind, a manufacturer's requirement may favour one thing or another, a carby manufacturer's agenda may be very different.

I hesitated a lot before I took the plunge because I was like everybody else who thought carbies are some sort of black magic better not messed with but once I did I never looked back. The owner said current carby does not have a mixture screw (by design). That would be enough reason to move to a better carby for me.

Either way, the change is totally reversible.
Click to expand...

If they are reasonably priced, its certainly worth a shot. The twin barrel webbers (especially the ones used on CX's) wear the throttle spindles badly. Weber designed the spindle area so that if they were reamed out you would probably disintegrate that area of the carby body (from memory)

A new carby is a much easier way to removing a few hundred thousand kms of wear, especially if reasonably priced :)
 
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