My new challenge - 1964 ID19F Safari

I have a feeling people are sweating the small stuff and forgetting the big stuff.

The car has run well or at least okay (by the info from Sven). So everything should be fine with the carby and ignition. Or good enough.

Then something happens with a valve and car isn't running well. Car also overheats.

This would not suggest the carby and/or some ignition component(s) are at fault. They may be, but this sequence of facts does not immediately point to that.

If you want to make sure everything is the way it should be with as little unknowns as possible, you can even run the car without a condenser and without the carby. Just spray some start you bastard in the intake and keep the throttle partly open (carby should be there but just for decor for the test).

But the car will not run if the ignition timing is out (I take it the dizzy has been messed with so needs checked) or if the valve timing is not right and I have a feeling this has not been checked properly. Until we know these things are as they should, everything else is paliative care.

I also suspect a head gasket leak would explain the overheating but that's something to look at down the road. The car should start and run at idle okay even with a head gasket leak. It won't run for long and will run poorly and getting worse as temperature rises until it will stop, which is something not unlike what Sven has reported hence my suspicion.

And it matters not that the engine has been standing for long. It has just been rebuilt. I have assembled engines and prepared them for start and left them sometimes for months and they started first thing after that. Like you said, if everything is spot on, doesn't matter how long it sits should start on the first compression stroke.
 
I don't exactly agree.
Yes, the fact that it was running, apparently ok during the car "sorting" process, and then developed the problem, does not preclude either carby or ignition components.
The condensor could have happily chugged away....... until it got sufficiently hot to test its insulation.
Also some contaminant in the carby that was dislodged during overhaul could slowly migrate until it causes a problem.

To me the condensor suits the symptoms, and was/ is the easiest thing to swap out.

Things like timing don't suddenly change.
 
Thanks for all the comments gents…. I took a break today and watched the new James Bond destroying Astons and Range Rovers - quite watchable!

When I came home I pulled out the distributor again, pulled it apart again, checked it all, put in a new condenser, set the points gap and replaced the ground wire…

Will shove it in again tomorrow, set the static timing, triple check all the valves / TDC and firing order and then see whether it made any difference. Fingers crossed.

Can’t be that hard. Head gasket is new as are pistons and liners, so I am confident (doh, am I?🤫) compression isn’t an issue - for now…

Let’s see what tomorrow brings.
 
Yes, I saw a poster for the new Bond movie, today!
I might just go to a cinema, to see it instead of waiting for 5 years, for it to come on TV.
 
Buttercup said:
I don't exactly agree.
Yes, the fact that it was running, apparently ok during the car "sorting" process, and then developed the problem, does not preclude either carby or ignition components.
The condensor could have happily chugged away....... until it got sufficiently hot to test its insulation.
Also some contaminant in the carby that was dislodged during overhaul could slowly migrate until it causes a problem.

To me the condensor suits the symptoms, and was/ is the easiest thing to swap out.

Things like timing don't suddenly change.
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I agree with you and that is reflected in my previous post. I go by what I understood from posts in this thread. Onus on owner who knows best what the sequence of events was, what exactly was done to the engine and what did exactly happen.

That said, I wouldn't put back an old carby on a freshly rebuilt engine without rebuilding that too. And fuel lines. And filters. And tank.

Yeah, the capacitor is the easiest thing to change but I thought you were complaining in the other thread about people mindlessly doing the easy stuff. Capacitors are difficult to test properly. You need specialist equipment. That is why I suggested at the top a new capacitor from a reputable manufacturer and source.
 
Who'd have thought a push rod, coil ignition, (single barrel) carburettored engine could be so complicated?

Just out of curiosity is it "common" that a rocker stud in these engines just snaps off?
In the photo it looks like a clean break, no evidence of fatigue. Given Sven's attention to detail, I would doubt it was overtorqued.

If it isn't common, resistance has caused it, particularly given that the push rod bent as well., Tight guide, guide movement, valve spring retainer making contact with the top of the guide, valve contact with the piston/foreign object or large volume of fluid in the cylinder.

The compression on that cylinder needs to be checked in case the valve head got bent or in case the valve's not seating properly due to a guide/stem issue.

If the compression's OK blow the jets out, the main jet could be totally occluded and it will still idle fine, fit the new condensor (that he said he had "on standby").
If it's an occluded jet I would lean towards a water droplet seeing as the carby's filter is in situ.

Then see what happens.

I don't know if I'm just lucky, but I've never had to replace a faulty condensor on the hundreds of cars and bikes I've owned, couple of coils yes, but never a condensor.
I have diagnosed a couple of condensor issues on family and friends cars though.
 
Sven did it take much adjustment to get the the valve clearance right after you repaired number 4 exhaust?
Maybe it's just the camera angle, but the valve spring coils in the "broken stud" photo look closer together than your photos of the unloaded valve springs on page 20.
The teller would be in the adjustment, if it was a fair bit then there's a problem with that valve assembly.
If the adjustment was already pretty well spot on after reassembly, forget I said anything
 
I had a few condensor failures over the years.
Generally show up when the engine is fully warmed up, and have varied from no spark at all, to a very weak spark, with random cutting out, very similar to Sven's video.
2 of them were on my GS powered 2CV Raid car on the 2016 Raid. Luckily I carried a couple of spares because of the poor reputation of the recently supplied ones. The first failure was an old one, the second was the new replacement after only about 2,000km.
As I suspected poor cooling airflow at the Dizzy and condensor, I made a little cooling air duct to blow onto the Dizzy.
No trouble since.
I'm not saying that this is definitely the problem here, but it seems similar.
 
Greenpeace said:
[...]

If it isn't common, resistance has caused it, particularly given that the push rod bent as well., Tight guide, guide movement, valve spring retainer making contact with the top of the guide, valve contact with the piston/foreign object or large volume of fluid in the cylinder.
Click to expand...

I think you may be onto something there. The hot running and bent pushrod could be caused as you say. Could be a head gasket leak? fault? leading to one cylinder filling up with coolant. Closer investigation deffo warranted. Your subsequent post might tell some of that tale too.
 
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schlitzaugen said:
I think you may be onto something there. The hot running and bent pushrod could be cause as you say. Could be a head gasket leak? fault? leading to one cylinder filling up with coolant. Closer investigation deffo warranted. Your subsequent post might tell some of that tale too.
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I'm only guessing Sven, a stud shouldn't clean break like that in a stock engine.

It's certainly not unknown in your average American V8 as in most instances a rocker arm is only held in place by a single 5/16" (8mm) bolt or stud.
Having said that they usually fail in these due to modifications such as a performance cam, higher ratio rocker arms, heavier valve springs or a combination of these exceeding the stud's designed load capability.

I certainly wouldn't tear into it yours willy nilly.
It may well be just an old stud that's been tightened one time too many.

Do a compression test and if the cylinders are within 10% of each other and are all within, or close to factory spec, you can assume nothing there is preventing it from running well. Even If one cylinder was low you would only have a miss on that cylinder and it should still run reasonably well.

Once you've ascertained the compression is OK attend to the couple of things you haven't done.

IE, change the condensor and make sure inside the carby is clean.

Get it running well before you worry about whether it's overheating or not. The first condition may well be causing the second.
 
Ok gents - an update … with a residual of frustration… it’s still not right.

Changed the condenser, cleaned and reassembled the distributor, checked the valve play a third time - all good.

Cleaned carbie again (had some soot in its throats from the backfire , checked the float level - adjusted it to the 8-9mm gap as per manual (was about 12mm…. Question on that later).

Put #1 to TDC, set up static timing, started engine. Used the timing light to adjust to the 12 degree before TDC.

Idled ok, revved up better than previously, had a few farts and pops, but settled down.

However, still not happy: it still runs unevenly, slow to respond / surge and not overly well settled at idle. Listening to the main silencer the exhaust gases still seem uneven, if better.

No water in oil, so head gasket is ok. Compression? Don’t have a tester - does anyone in Melbourne have one that works on DS engines?
Bent exhaust valve? Maybe, but crossing fingers it’s not.
Temperature of engine seemed fine running it in the garage (head temp about 50-60 degrees, measured on various spots).


…better, but not right. So: does anyone in Melbourne have enough engine experience to lend me a hand (and an ear) and nail the problem? Payment in wine and beer…

Weber float level: manual says: gap to join 8-9mm and fuel level 13-16mm from join. After adjusting the float I now have 9mm (was 12mm) and 20mm (didn’t measure beforehand) - how do I raise the fuel level another 5mm? Could that be the cause of the odd running?

Sven
 
Compression tester.. would one of those cheap $25 things do the job? Are the “nozzles “ long enough to reach the deep plug holes?
5EBD7878-EF53-4113-9A29-7F15633807A7.jpeg
 
bleudanube said:
Ok gents - an update … with a residual of frustration… it’s still not right.

Changed the condenser, cleaned and reassembled the distributor, checked the valve play a third time - all good.

Cleaned carbie again (had some soot in its throats from the backfire , checked the float level - adjusted it to the 8-9mm gap as per manual (was about 12mm…. Question on that later).

Put #1 to TDC, set up static timing, started engine. Used the timing light to adjust to the 12 degree before TDC.

Idled ok, revved up better than previously, had a few farts and pops, but settled down.

However, still not happy: it still runs unevenly, slow to respond / surge and not overly well settled at idle. Listening to the main silencer the exhaust gases still seem uneven, if better.

No water in oil, so head gasket is ok. Compression? Don’t have a tester - does anyone in Melbourne have one that works on DS engines?
Bent exhaust valve? Maybe, but crossing fingers it’s not.
Temperature of engine seemed fine running it in the garage (head temp about 50-60 degrees, measured on various spots).


…better, but not right. So: does anyone in Melbourne have enough engine experience to lend me a hand (and an ear) and nail the problem? Payment in wine and beer…

Weber float level: manual says: gap to join 8-9mm and fuel level 13-16mm from join. After adjusting the float I now have 9mm (was 12mm) and 20mm (didn’t measure beforehand) - how do I raise the fuel level another 5mm? Could that be the cause of the odd running?

Sven
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Sven you should be able to judge the compression to a reasonable degree with the crank handle, any loss of compression on 1 cylinder (at the speed you turn the engine at by this method), will be clearly obvious.

It does sound way better now. Is it running rich or lean at idle? Rich the tailpipe will sound a bit "blubbery" and there may be noticable black smoke.
Lean will sound good then "pop" out the tailpipe, the leaner it is the louder and more frequently it will pop.

You cleaned the jets and blew through their passageways too?
 
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bleudanube said:
Compression tester.. would one of those cheap $25 things do the job? Are the “nozzles “ long enough to reach the deep plug holes?
View attachment 138362
Click to expand...
Yes that looks plenty long enough.
I used one like this on a Renault 16TS, it had deep plugs like the DS. Just tape some bits of wire to the hose to take the bend out. Makes it easier to to screw in.
 
I would say it runs lean as it still pops and the fuel level seems pretty low compared to the specs. Hence my question above: how do I raise the fuel level by 5mm? There doesn’t seem to be enough adjustment in the float left. It also feels like the carbie isn’t keeping up with fuel when revving up.

I did douse the carbie in cleaner and blew through every jet with compressed air.
 
I suggest you pull the plugs and clean them before you play around with the float level, I have had a similar problem myself and found the plugs sooted up from low running and general pissing about. Not sure from the video sound if I could detect a vacuum leak??? your hearing would be better being close. Is the fuel pump keeping up with the carbs needs???.
 
bleudanube said:
I would say it runs lean as it still pops and the fuel level seems pretty low compared to the specs. Hence my question above: how do I raise the fuel level by 5mm? There doesn’t seem to be enough adjustment in the float left. It also feels like the carbie isn’t keeping up with fuel when revving up.

I did douse the carbie in cleaner and blew through every jet with compressed air.
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I'm not familiar with your particular carburettor Sven. If the float tab has run out of bending room maybe the check the washer under the needle and seat, firstly make sure no-one's put an extra one there and if not see if you can fit a thinner one. A lot of the replacement needle and seats come with quite a thick aluminium washer, you maybe able thin this up on a sheet of wet and dry on a flat surface. 1mm at the needle and seat would get you close to 5mm at the float I reckon.

If you've got a workshop manual check and see if your model carby has emulsion tube/s, these often get obstructed (especially if left sitting) as the holes are so small, usually the only way to clean them properly is remove them and poke them clear with a sewing needle or a fine piece of wire. Check your jets are the right size and in the right place.

If it's running lean it should run better with a little bit of choke.
 
Your spark events sound erratic.

I would hook up a timing gun and see if the flashes are regular and consistent. Hook it up on each plug wire. Keep in mind, we are not trying to adjust the timing but looking for spark quality. It should be precise as a clock. If it's not, you can see which one(s) isn't.

You can also hook up the light to the wire from the coil. Again, you're looking for a nice flash every time a cylinder fires, regular intervals, same intensity, etc. You will get four times more flashes here.

If the coil wire shows uneven spark I would check coil, condenser, points, coil wire. Make sure the positive feed to coil is in good order too.

If the coil is okay but the plugs show erratic flashing, you can pinpoint which spark plug is doing it wrong. If all are doing it wrong, it may be the fuel is too lean and/or you have too large a gap. Plus the wire(s).

You didn't tell us or I didn't catch it if the carby has been rebuilt.
 
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schlitzaugen said:
Your spark events sound erratic.

I would hook up a timing gun and see if the flashes are regular and consistent. Hook it up on each plug wire. Keep in mind, we are not trying to adjust the timing but looking for spark quality. It should be precise as a clock. If it's not, you can see which one(s) isn't.

You can also hook up the light to the wire from the coil. Again, you're looking for a nice flash every time a cylinder fires, regular intervals, same intensity, etc. You will get four times more flashes here.

If the coil wire shows uneven spark I would check coil, condenser, points, coil wire. Make sure the positive feed to coil is in good order too.

If the coil is okay but the plugs show erratic flashing, you can pinpoint which spark plug is doing it wrong. If all are doing it wrong, it may be the fuel is too lean and/or you have too large a gap. Plus the wire(s).

You didn't tell us or I didn't catch it if the carby has been rebuilt.
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Thanks for that tip - will try/check the spark regularity.

The carbie has been pulled apart, checked, cleaned, reassembled. Nothing felt or looked worn or out of place, but maybe I overlooked something or mixed something up - I will double check again as well.

Does anyone know of a Weber/carburettor overhaul shop in Melbourne?
 
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