I didn't see where you got the repair panel from Chris. I might be going down this path shortly myself. Can you provide contact details for panel sourcing (inner and face).
SF
SF
GreenBlood’s D(very)Special Rejuvenation 2009>
- Thread starter GreenBlood
- Start date
Any of the European suppliers should carry the repair panels including Citroen Classics UK
Classic Citroen Parts, Repairs and Restoration - Citroen Classics Darrin and Kris are members of AF (username Onlyfrogcars).
Mine were supplied by Citroworld, always prompt and rarely caught out without stock
Citroworld | Dé webshop voor al uw Citroën auto-onderdelen (Citroën DS, H, HY, HZ en 2CV) en speciale gereedschap
I suspect they all source from the same supplier?
If you are going to take to your car with an angle grinder
This is a good site to get some tips as to what can be done and how to approach.
Gallery: DS20 Restauration
Teil 7: Die Karosserie covers bodywork.
Cheers
Chris
Just looking at the German site Chris, that is serious restoration activity, handy little pointers too!
I'd love to know what is going on with this tool, is it grinding or filling?
EDIT A quick google, the tool is a sandblasting gun (strahlpistole), so he is blasting the area of welds
Cheers
Chris
Attachments
He's pretty serious, YA!
Frankenstein
A little more progress, and a learning curve. . .
I've welded in the outer repair section, but not without drama!
This welding lark is not something you can expect to come back to after 12 months and get the results you may have achieved back then. So many variables with setting up the welder, definitely an art that an experienced person tunes themselves to. Initially I struggled to get a good clean penetrating weld, I fiddled with settings but I knew I could get better - on close inspection of my earth clamp I could see why, the contacts on the clamp were rusted and making a poor connection to the work. So, cleaned the clamp contacts and away I went.
I was using a slightly higher setting than previous and for most of the job I was going well, but when I hit the inner join on the circumference where the chrome trim clips on, I had a hefty blow through!! Required making a small section and fitting that in, lowered the setting on the welder and all was good again.
At this stage I have cleaned the welds and hit the repair with weld through primer, most of which will be cleaned away when I continue.
Much adjusting during the process, trial fitting the glass and making corrections as I went. As things stand I believe I have a result - still waiting for the inner panel to arrive which I have since determined has it's own problems.
The inner repair section is not complete, luckily I didn't throw out the old parts I had removed, you need the end section that tucks up into the corner of the guard. I've sandblasted the piece I need which will be welded to the repair section and fitted to the guard.
Once I have the repair complete I'll strip the paint and as predicted get the final shape with body filler, I doff me hat to the skilled professionals who achieve a file finish. Not a job for the faint of heart
Not out of the woods, but feeling quietly confident
Cheers
Chris
A little more progress, and a learning curve. . .
I've welded in the outer repair section, but not without drama!
This welding lark is not something you can expect to come back to after 12 months and get the results you may have achieved back then. So many variables with setting up the welder, definitely an art that an experienced person tunes themselves to. Initially I struggled to get a good clean penetrating weld, I fiddled with settings but I knew I could get better - on close inspection of my earth clamp I could see why, the contacts on the clamp were rusted and making a poor connection to the work. So, cleaned the clamp contacts and away I went.
I was using a slightly higher setting than previous and for most of the job I was going well, but when I hit the inner join on the circumference where the chrome trim clips on, I had a hefty blow through!! Required making a small section and fitting that in, lowered the setting on the welder and all was good again.
At this stage I have cleaned the welds and hit the repair with weld through primer, most of which will be cleaned away when I continue.
Much adjusting during the process, trial fitting the glass and making corrections as I went. As things stand I believe I have a result - still waiting for the inner panel to arrive which I have since determined has it's own problems.
The inner repair section is not complete, luckily I didn't throw out the old parts I had removed, you need the end section that tucks up into the corner of the guard. I've sandblasted the piece I need which will be welded to the repair section and fitted to the guard.
Once I have the repair complete I'll strip the paint and as predicted get the final shape with body filler, I doff me hat to the skilled professionals who achieve a file finish. Not a job for the faint of heart
Not out of the woods, but feeling quietly confident
Cheers
Chris
Attachments
that looks Fantastic!! I'm dont' really understand the inner part as I haven't delved in there before.
seeya,
Shane L.
seeya,
Shane L.
It stiffens that whole area and of course provides the fixtures for the glass and light bucket.
It welds along the bottom fold and at the indicator cutouts, so has some bearing on the final shape and can influence how well the glass finally fits.
Being a double skin a great area for rust to form
Having the two surfaces exposed before welding gives a great opportunity to get some good rust protection in there, something I'd say was lacking at the factory.
Cheers
Chris
Hey Chris
have you considered bonding the inner panel instead of welding? I know Darrin at Citroen Classics uses a Wurth product for certain applications... The bond is indestructible and I imagine would seal the inner double skin from water penetration in the future... just can't remember which product it was...
Matthew.
have you considered bonding the inner panel instead of welding? I know Darrin at Citroen Classics uses a Wurth product for certain applications... The bond is indestructible and I imagine would seal the inner double skin from water penetration in the future... just can't remember which product it was...
Matthew.
bunnings sell the urethane adhesive/sealers for $12.00 (non-sikaflex brand)... you could fill them so there is no void between them to hold water. Far stronger than welding given it's new metal.
seeya
ShaneL.
seeya
ShaneL.
Hey Chris
have you considered bonding the inner panel instead of welding? I know Darrin at Citroen Classics uses a Wurth product for certain applications... The bond is indestructible and I imagine would seal the inner double skin from water penetration in the future... just can't remember which product it was...
Matthew.
I'll stand corrected, but. . .
I think Darrin recommends using a PU polyurethane adhesive (much like you might use for sealing a bonded roof) between the two skins as a way of keeping muck and moister sitting in the gap, but still welding the panel in place. I would also selectively paint both sides of the panel away from areas to be welded.
This is how I planned to proceed, welding would, to my mind be more appropriate. A more positive jointing, relatively straightforward with plug welding, permitting minor adjustments if required when fitting, and allows for fairly simple drilling out of welds if a future repair is required.
I picked up this pic of the same repair (I can't remember where :nownow: ) looks like red oxide as the rust protection, support panel plug welded in place and you can see the inner corner section rescued from the rotten panel welded to the new repair section.
Cheers
Chris
Attachments
You could also use cavity wax? The German chappy on the website link is using it extensively everywhere. Good stuff btw.
I'll stand corrected, but. . .
I think Darrin recommends using a PU polyurethane adhesive (much like you might use for sealing a bonded roof) between the two skins as a way of keeping muck and moister sitting in the gap, but still welding the panel in place. I would also selectively paint both sides of the panel away from areas to be welded.
This is how I planned to proceed, welding would, to my mind be more appropriate. A more positive jointing, relatively straightforward with plug welding, permitting minor adjustments if required when fitting, and allows for fairly simple drilling out of welds if a future repair is required.
I picked up this pic of the same repair (I can't remember where :nownow: ) looks like red oxide as the rust protection, support panel plug welded in place and you can see the inner corner section rescued from the rotten panel welded to the new repair section.
Cheers
Chris
You could use a weld through black primer on the internal faces and then treat with cavity wax/ lanolin / fish oil or similar once the panel has received its final finish!
Punk Blaster!!
Continuing with rust repairs on this guard, small indications on the outside of the panel can reveal fairly significant rot. . .
Lower rear, not so bad just a couple of patches, the inner skin seems solid so I'll just get some good rust prevention inside once painted.
This one was a bit of a surprise, I had the remainder of the front repair panel so cut the rot and replaced with metal.
Steve, you might like this
After discovering what our German friend was doing with the spot blaster I just had to add one to my tool collection - Luna Punkblaster!!!
$86.00 via ebay with free delivery. . .
Much cleaner to work with than a regular sandblaster, it has 4 rubber heads that will pretty well get into most nooks and crannies. The blast media is recycled back into the bag as long as you have good contact with your work.
I've been Punkblasting all the seams on the inside of the panel and hitting with primer. Once done I'll strip the rest of the paint apply seam sealer and 2k prime.
Still waiting for the inner repair panel to finish the front . . .
Cheers
Chris
Continuing with rust repairs on this guard, small indications on the outside of the panel can reveal fairly significant rot. . .
Lower rear, not so bad just a couple of patches, the inner skin seems solid so I'll just get some good rust prevention inside once painted.
This one was a bit of a surprise, I had the remainder of the front repair panel so cut the rot and replaced with metal.
Steve, you might like this
After discovering what our German friend was doing with the spot blaster I just had to add one to my tool collection - Luna Punkblaster!!!
$86.00 via ebay with free delivery. . .
Much cleaner to work with than a regular sandblaster, it has 4 rubber heads that will pretty well get into most nooks and crannies. The blast media is recycled back into the bag as long as you have good contact with your work.
I've been Punkblasting all the seams on the inside of the panel and hitting with primer. Once done I'll strip the rest of the paint apply seam sealer and 2k prime.
Still waiting for the inner repair panel to finish the front . . .
Cheers
Chris
Attachments
You're a machine Chris! Well done, the workmanship is amazing. I seriously love combing through this thread- whenever I have a spare few minutes I bring it up just to check what you've done/been up to in order to spot potential things I should be looking at next..!
The caliber of threads in the restoration section is absolutely fantastic. It's certainly motivated me to bring my level of quality up to try and match you guys!
The punktblaster (spot blaster in English) is fantastic. Makes sure your welds are good! Can't wait to see your car back on the road.. It'll be amazing!
The caliber of threads in the restoration section is absolutely fantastic. It's certainly motivated me to bring my level of quality up to try and match you guys!
The punktblaster (spot blaster in English) is fantastic. Makes sure your welds are good! Can't wait to see your car back on the road.. It'll be amazing!
Thanks Toby,
I too am enjoying the camaraderie and willingness to share the trials and tribulations with our projects. Nothing comes easily but the rewards for working through issues can't be measured. Matthew's, Steve's and your own successes keep me motivated. As do looking back at threads by UFO, Michael Berry, Le Parisian and michaelr as well as others in the resto forum - a wealth of information and enjoyable reading.
I'm being frustrated by an Aus supplier who has messed up a small order of mine, looks like at least another two weeks before I get that inner repair panel to finish the front guard. On the plus side I've spent more time prepping the guard than I might otherwise have.
Attempting to sort through a squillion parts that became mixed in the recent move - a real test for my memory I can tell you! I might have to lean on the collective knowledge to jog the grey matter. Even that front guard is made up of countless individual bits and pieces particular to it , driving me nuts :crazy:
Cheers
Chris
The only problem with the 'caliber of threads' here is it makes me nervous about starting one of my own for 'Sue's rehabilitation'. I foresee a great 'silence of disapproval'.:nownow:
Still, your thread and the others here are inspirational. There are real parallels between our two vehicles.
SF
You sure don't complain about the costs of getting professionals to do this stuff when you figure out for yourself how much time and effort is involved in making sure everything is ok
seeya,
Shane L.
Lost count of the hours I've now spent on this guard, of course I'm slow and I often do things three times over to get a result but yes I wouldn't want to be paying a professional having now experienced what's involved
Not much to show despite the time put in. . .
A little more welding and grinding to all but disappear the repairs.
I'm in love with the shrink disc, it really does work and relatively quickly (albeit noisy), a previous repair was thick with filler. I was able to pretty well put the shape back in and this area will only require a skim of filler to finish.
Stripped the rest of the guard of paint and filler, and gave it a first hit of primer (I don't like leaving bare metal too long) and it could be a while before I get to paint.
I've started to add filler and shape the front but don't want to work too close to where I will weld in the inner repair section - I masked those areas before primer so still clean metal for welding. It's starting to look like a guard again :wink2:
Cheers
Chris
Attachments
Are you going acrylic on top coat Chris, I' m pondering the paint on mine at present, cheaper, less toxic and manageable..?