Finally ... Repairing a traction gearbox.

Measure on the flat side of the tooth. This is the driving side and set the angle of the gauge so that it is a right angles to the surface of the tooth. At the very edge of the tooth it will be almost at a tangent to the circumference but just a little bit more. Do you have a measuring base block with an adjustable rod mount? Old Dan Jones used to set this with a strip of thin paper. The idea was that if you could pass a strip of paper through the mesh of the CW and P without it cutting through the paper the mesh was very close. Depends upon the thickness of the paper. You could try this after you have done your adjustments. I would try using grease proof cut about 2 inches long and 1/2 inch wide.
You could also confirm the conic depth setting using Prussian Blue engineering ink. Oil paint from a local art supply will work well. The print should be evenly spaced along the length of the tooth and at about midway up the tooth flank. With a worn setup as yours is the contact will be quite broad. Wash off residue with turps!
 
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I tried in several places ... damn near perfect without any adjustment.... If feels like and sounds like lots of slop ... amazing its such a tiny amount when measured. I tried in several places.... they are all within 0.2 (give or take 0.03... its a small amount to measure accurately).

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is it just a split pin used here as a safety on the adjustment nuts? (it looks like they should be wired around the smaller tooth).
 
It is just a split pin, inserted from the outer and splayed to the inside of the adjusting ring so that the splayed legs are almost at 180 degrees. Do not be tempted to wrap the leg of the pin around the outer edge of the housing. To will interfere with the fitting of the oil seal!
Choose a pin that is a good fit in the hole of the carrier strap. You may have to move the adjusting ring slightly to line up the nearest hole.
 
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Well I just spent an hour searching for a bracket that must be like a distributor clamp to retain the speedo drive ..... I found another box in the boot. I thnk that is a part of the grill ... and certainly and air cleaner in here.

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This is what I still have here .... Its about now I realise what an incredibly difficult job it must have been to assemble this car. How on earth did my father identify all the parts to assemble this thing (he purchased it as a painted hull .... with bits of it spread over a shed where several other makes and models of cars were also in bits)..... So quite a few of the parts he had ... .probably didn't even belong to this car.

It looks like I have bearing races and caps .... The nuts and washers .... they are plated .... They must be from my parts stash .... How did they get into this cars box of bits... same with the nuts and bolts there. I must have plated some fasteners 20years ago that were used when it was assembled. I'll see if they fit the gearbox -> bellhouse studs.

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After reading Teds thread a few weeks back .... I was keen to see if the gearbox would slide back on ....
Yep same issue .... Look at that. Its not going into the thrust bearing (or is it bush ?). Hmmm.....

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Either way ... I don't have this gasket (I only realised I needed it when I cleaned the bell housing just now).
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I've been seeing this cross member sitting there for a few weeks now thinking "It can't be from this car .... it can't fit under the gearbox/engine anywhere" ..... Yeah, I finally saw it as soon as I sat the top on the gearbox. It's like a DS ... the gearbox is mounted from the top.

Fingers crossed some of this stuff will be familar to my father ... he's back next week so may know what parts go where!

There's not much else I can do once again ... until I order in a gearbox gasket and chase up some speedi-sleeves.
 
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I hope that is only a trial fit! The output flanges and oil seals must be fitted before the box goes into the car. As for a gearbox gasket set. You are better off using silicone gasket material from a tube. OR you could make your own gaskets from manila card/ commercial gasket paper etc. But I would always use a silicone sealant in conjunction.
The picture of the thrust bearing locking device fork shows that the T piece on the lid is not engaged. Lift the lid , push the box into position and then refit the lid!
You also need to fit a pin to the crank handle dog.
Do you have the thrust washers and castellated nuts that secure the output flanges?
 
I love this thread, reminds me of so many past mystery jobs to re-assemble something that had been pulled apart then stored, you are lucky to have the guidance of Gerry who obviously has been down this track a few times Shane and access to manuals. with the gaskets, I still have a roll of Gasket paper I purchased while I was a teen apprentice mucking about with cars.

My father showed me how to use a small ball pein hammer to raise an outline of the required gasket with the material laid on the face of the part so that the gasket and any bolt holes were accurate for fit before the material was cut with mums dressmaking scissors (best if you don't tell your better half..) ;)

Use round metal hole cutters to the size of the bolt holes, the rounded end of the ball pein hammer rubbed over bolt holes, helps position the bolt holes in the material and that in itself gives the gasket reference points while the rest of the outline is gently tapped into the gasket material - this has saved a lot of money and time over the years and of course the large cutout waste from the centre of a gearbox gasket, is not waste at all. you get to use it up over the years in making smaller gaskets. The roll was quite cheap when I bought it and of course you can either buy thinner bulk gasket material or just use brown kraft paper for thinner grades.

Might be teaching you to suck eggs on that as you being a handyman and your father skilled owner of older cars, this is probably something you already know -just passing on my fathers farming mechanical skills as he taught me all those years ago - ready made gaskets were a luxury then.

Your pictorial record and this thread should be a boon to other restorer Cit owners.

Keep up the good work.

Ken
 
Hi Shane :)
Good work I hope it all comes together soon !!
AS for the stuff in boxes, it reminds me of customers bringing in a mower or ride on in parts. Often with a comment like, it should not cost so much as we have already pulled it apart ?? That automatically meant there were parts missing ! Which parts ? Well that will be revealed when we tried to put it together again. 🥴 Lucky we probably had spares--- somewhere !

A guy i worked with bought a Toyota 4WD back in the 80s that the driver had pulled apart to dry it out after it had got stuck on the beach and flooded. The engine and gearbox was all strewn in the back. But when reassembling it one special head stud was missing. Toyota had to get one in from Japan and he missed using it on his holidays because of that ;)
Good luck Jaahn
 
gerrypro said:
I hope that is only a trial fit! The output flanges and oil seals must be fitted before the box goes into the car. As for a gearbox gasket set. You are better off using silicone gasket material from a tube. OR you could make your own gaskets from manila card/ commercial gasket paper etc. But I would always use a silicone sealant in conjunction.
The picture of the thrust bearing locking device fork shows that the T piece on the lid is not engaged. Lift the lid , push the box into position and then refit the lid!
You also need to fit a pin to the crank handle dog.
Do you have the thrust washers and castellated nuts that secure the output flanges?
Click to expand...

Its not fitted .... Just sitting there. I would never have guessed the seals and output flanges would be fitted before gearbox install (only half of the seal housing exists until its installed!).

You picked I was trying to figure out how the linkages work :) I was going to unbolt the cam wheel so I could see what was there more clearly. it looks like the linkages needed to slot into the rear somehow.
 
Kenfuego said:
I love this thread, reminds me of so many past mystery jobs to re-assemble something that had been pulled apart then stored, you are lucky to have the guidance of Gerry who obviously has been down this track a few times Shane and access to manuals. with the gaskets, I still have a roll of Gasket paper I purchased while I was a teen apprentice mucking about with cars.

My father showed me how to use a small ball pein hammer to raise an outline of the required gasket with the material laid on the face of the part so that the gasket and any bolt holes were accurate for fit before the material was cut with mums dressmaking scissors (best if you don't tell your better half..) ;)

Use round metal hole cutters to the size of the bolt holes, the rounded end of the ball pein hammer rubbed over bolt holes, helps position the bolt holes in the material and that in itself gives the gasket reference points while the rest of the outline is gently tapped into the gasket material - this has saved a lot of money and time over the years and of course the large cutout waste from the centre of a gearbox gasket, is not waste at all. you get to use it up over the years in making smaller gaskets. The roll was quite cheap when I bought it and of course you can either buy thinner bulk gasket material or just use brown kraft paper for thinner grades.

Might be teaching you to suck eggs on that as you being a handyman and your father skilled owner of older cars, this is probably something you already know -just passing on my fathers farming mechanical skills as he taught me all those years ago - ready made gaskets were a luxury then.

Your pictorial record and this thread should be a boon to other restorer Cit owners.

Keep up the good work.

Ken
Click to expand...

Thanks Ken,

My father is more of a tinkerer like me...... My grandfather however is the expert, he was a gifted mechanic all his life. He seems to be able to just look at anything .... understand how it works and fix/assemble it. He's getting on these days though, and has no interest in working on old cars (Infact, he'll quite happily tell you "those things were shitboxes when they were new, why you you want one 50 years later ..... :ROFLMAO: )

Gerry has now saved me pulling everything apart .... and putting it back together in the correct sequence about a dozen times (at least).

I do have a roll of gasket paper here. Honestly though, I think a tiny smear of silicon (or my favorite ... and anaerobic sealant such as Loctite 515/permatex anaerobic sealer) is the best of both worlds. Its stays a liquid when squeezed out and wont' block internal passages in motors/gearboxs. Its great stuff, and never "goes off" on the shelf like silicon. You can leave it uncapped and it will stay a liquid until needed.

seeya,
Shane L.
 
jaahn said:
Hi Shane :)
Good work I hope it all comes together soon !!
AS for the stuff in boxes, it reminds me of customers bringing in a mower or ride on in parts. Often with a comment like, it should not cost so much as we have already pulled it apart ?? That automatically meant there were parts missing ! Which parts ? Well that will be revealed when we tried to put it together again. 🥴 Lucky we probably had spares--- somewhere !

A guy i worked with bought a Toyota 4WD back in the 80s that the driver had pulled apart to dry it out after it had got stuck on the beach and flooded. The engine and gearbox was all strewn in the back. But when reassembling it one special head stud was missing. Toyota had to get one in from Japan and he missed using it on his holidays because of that ;)
Good luck Jaahn
Click to expand...

Ah ... mowers .... Made by midgets with miniature super strong hands with triple jointed fingers. There is what looks like a very low hour Deutscher (made in ballarat) zero turn mower for sale listed locally yesterday. Missing the motor (I'm betting its sat in a shed for years with a dead motor).... What a rippa.... the paint on the entire thing including the foot rest wasn't worn through ... the deck was still shiny green (and the tires looked unworn). Sadly its sold within minutes even though it was $1500. I'd have justt pulled the motor off my mower and moved over to it!
 
It seems wrong, doesn't it?< that the seal is part fitted in the front of the gearbox case. Never the less this it how it is done . You can smear sealant on the casing half and then the bell housing half. Then as you slide the box into place you can align the seal in the bore. Once you fit the fixing nuts and tighten up the case everything will pull into place.
I will show you how the gear tower fits when I see you next. It is quite easy the tower fixes with two short set screws and one long one. The long one also holds the tin shield in place. It goes into place once the gearbox is fitted.
Do not remove the cam shaft pulley. There is no need.
 
To clear the cam shaft pulley to locate the top of the gearbox I removed the two long studs, and slid the GB top past the pulley and then refitted them. They hold the two horns on a bracket on my car. So fix the top on after the gearbox is slotted fully home. Well that is the way that I did it. Ted
 
DoubleChevron said:
Ah ... mowers .... Made by midgets with miniature super strong hands with triple jointed fingers. There is what looks like a very low hour Deutscher (made in ballarat) zero turn mower for sale listed locally yesterday. Missing the motor (I'm betting its sat in a shed for years with a dead motor).... What a rippa.... the paint on the entire thing including the foot rest wasn't worn through ... the deck was still shiny green (and the tires looked unworn). Sadly its sold within minutes even though it was $1500. I'd have justt pulled the motor off my mower and moved over to it!
Click to expand...
You missed out on the best ride on mower built. I sold them when I had my mower shop here in Coffs Hbr. They were built like a tank & would cut absolutely anything, even parramatta grass, & in the wet ! Deutsche were great to deal with too, but eventually gave up trying to compete with cheap & nasty American imports.
 
citroenut said:
You missed out on the best ride on mower built. I sold them when I had my mower shop here in Coffs Hbr. They were built like a tank & would cut absolutely anything, even parramatta grass, & in the wet ! Deutsche were great to deal with too, but eventually gave up trying to compete with cheap & nasty American imports.
Click to expand...

Tell me about it .... I should have been faster (and less broke :clown: ).

Fortunately the hub nuts were loose on the old traction. I wonder if I would have realised the drivers side was a left hand thread before I torqued it to approximately 10,000 lbs in frustration :eek:
 
I asked boss women how long ago we were married (yeah that went down well :blackeye: )..... Anyway, it's 18years since this car has been driven (it was our wedding car .... seeing the metal in the gearbox ... i've gotta say, it's a miracle it drove to the wedding and back). I really enjoy watching shows like vice grip garage .... so just for fun I thought I'd see if it would fire (so I could check the gearbox before bolting everything back together.


I've had that tin of starting spray for years and never found a reason to use it .... You know, I still reckon pettrol down its guts is way better than spray. I haven't driven the pink car in 12months. I had to clean the points and start in in gear (as the clutch was slightly stuck) to drive it out of the shed a few days back. This thing ... 18 bloody years and it fires almost instantly.


Amazing right? It started stinking something bloody terrible like varnish (really ancient petrol) ...

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The fuel pump is leaking .... These old cars are just fascinating .... look at the ancient dizzie cap and the leads look like the have been plucked from random old parts cars 20 years ago.... The fuel pump has a glass top and I can see some horrible coloured ancient fuel in it.

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It all looks quite good. I can't see any splits. It looks to be new fuel line with no clamps on it. I'm guessing one of us was half way through cleaning out the carby/fuel pump and replacing the fuel lines at some point 18 years ago and never finished it. It didn't seem to be leaking once re-assembled.


Can you believe that. It sounds so sweet (the exhaust is blowing as for some reason the downpipe is unbolted at the manifold right there). Aren't those glass topped fuel pumps amazing. I just quickly try the gears and shut it off. There is no cooling system hooked up ... and that fuel is terrible. it'll probably gum up the valves (it stinks to high hell). I hope the fuel tank has a drain point!


The gearbox seems silent and smooth. The driveshafts are probably touching the hubs as they aren't torqued and the front wheels are drooping. It looks like I need new fuel line, new leads, new dizzie cap, new ball joint boots .... well I'm guessing everything rubber is 70years old and stuffed. The brakes still look shiny and new though (they have only done probably 30kms since being replaced).
 
Oh for the older cars, no need for confusing electronic devices, just deductive reasoning, and it is all there to see and work on.. enjoy. :D
 
When I first started mine up after having been on an engine stand for the best part of 25 years it produced clouds and clouds of blue smoke from all of the oil I had put down the spark plug holes for storage and then to make sure that it was free to hand crank over. It took about fifteen minutes to clear the air in the shed until I could see again. The engine then settled down to a very smooth idle. After it heated up I finalized the rocker clearances and not only did it smooth out some more but it became as quiet as I had remembered it from all those years ago!
 
gerrypro said:
When I first started mine up after having been on an engine stand for the best part of 25 years it produced clouds and clouds of blue smoke from all of the oil I had put down the spark plug holes for storage and then to make sure that it was free to hand crank over. It took about fifteen minutes to clear the air in the shed until I could see again. The engine then settled down to a very smooth idle. After it heated up I finalized the rocker clearances and not only did it smooth out some more but it became as quiet as I had remembered it from all those years ago!
Click to expand...

Strangely its much smoother and mellow sounding than the same motor in the ID19. It must be the head configuration. I'll only start it just once when the cooling system is back together to move it up onto the ramps to drain the fuel tank. The petrol makes me feel sick and makes my eyes sting just being near it! Its the sort of fuel I don't mind using in a 2stroke mower :D ........ and nothing else.

If the tank doesn't drain cleanly I'll pull it out and try to figure out a way of cleaning it internally (I'm not sure if there is any openings that will allow access for cleaning).

I'll have to do some google searching and see if I can fidn some of those nice old woven look ignition leads for it.
 
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