69 404 restoration

[Andrew Watkins]

My 1970 404 ( Oz assembled ) had a little aluminum tag put on the diff, I think by Regan’s, instructing only to use Castrol R

I presume that a variety of oils would dom as discussed above, but this may have been an attempt to minimise error by recommending something that was well understood and still relatively easily available at that time.

Wonderful t see him bacl on his wheels, will be an awesome finished job

Congratulations

Andrew

 

[GRAHAM WALLIS]

My 1970 404 ( Oz assembled ) had a little aluminum tag put on the diff, I think by Regan’s, instructing only to use Castrol R

I presume that a variety of oils would dom as discussed above, but this may have been an attempt to minimise error by recommending something that was well understood and still relatively easily available at that time.

Wonderful t see him bacl on his wheels, will be an awesome finished job

Congratulations

Andrew

You can't mix Castrol R40 with any mineral base oil. They react and the diff is destroyed.

 

[Dano]

The instrument panel is now completely assembled. It has taken a while, due to a few false starts etc.

A NOS Clock

Speedo is NOS


Since getting a number of window winder escutcheons (backing discs) and headlight pots for the 203 re-silvered (Aluminium vacuumised) at Hyqual; I have found another chrome plater near Narangba, who can chrome plastic. I gave them another set of escutcheons to plate. Compared to the vacuuming, it was not a cheap process. Time will tell, which process is the more durable.

Aluminium vacuumised

Chromed



They also re-plated the rear door handle/ashtray plates. Considering the state of the cast alloy housings, they have come up a treat (The foam packing reflection doesn't show the true finish). The front stainless steel ones have been polished.

Going back to the escutcheons, prior to taking them to Hyqual, the chrome residue had to be removed. Previously, this was done by a chrome plating works in Brisbane. When looking at YouTube stuff, I came across a video showing how to remove chrome from plastic car parts, using household bleach. It works a treat. Within 30 mins of soaking, all the escutcheons were stripped clean.

Cheers,

Dano

 

[Dano]

Got a few jobs done over the weekend.

The insides of the door frames and skins were given a coat of paint.

https://youtu.be/KOYpq4GH9mc

https://youtu.be/R_pQJA_HfxA

Next weekend, the skins will be attached/spot welded to the frame.

Finished the hood lining as well. The pattern was taken off the original lining some time back. Sewed the hoop pockets into place, which produced the various panel effect. It doesn't show in the photos, but buy cutting V's into the lining at either end of each pocket/fold and stitching the edges together, it generates an arch. This is the curve that comes down off the hoops and attaches to the window/door frame lips.

A little each day...

 

[Dano]

Last week, a good mate came over with Keith’s sister, so I could check a few measurement/things.

brother and sister.jpg

interior.jpg

I say sister, because his 404 is only two body numbers apart and both were sold out of Canberra, in 1969. That is about where the similarities stop. My mate’s car is a genuine two owner; it has never been in a major accident (A bonnet nudge in a shopping centre). Besides an engine valve, head gasket and clutch replacement, plus routine service items, no other mechanical repairs have been undertaken. The body is perfect and the interior is simply astounding. The car has always been stored undercover and meticulously maintained. Having it so close and available to check and compare things with as Keith has undergone his reincarnation, has been a blessing in disguise.

Simple things like which of the many holes punched into the new inner guards were not required and could be plugged.

DSCN3089.jpg

Dan and I spent the weekend aligning and welding the door skins to the frames.

DSCN3072.jpg

DSCN3086.jpg

The door locks and striker plates were attached to ensure final alignment. Well, before body filling, sanding and painting anyhow. These will be dismantled and re-zinc coated.

DSCN3076.jpg

DSCN3077.jpg

DSCN3073.jpg

The masking tape is being used to align/insert trim clip holes. The two front NOS skins didn't have the holes. Possibly ute skins, same thing anyhow.

A rust hole in the rear bottom section of the front right guard was patched. This was done rather than, just welding up the hole, as it was directly over the inner brace. With the section removed, it became apparent that this was a wise move. The inner brace was showing signs of rust, which was not evident from the reverse side.

DSCN3087.jpg

DSCN3090.jpg

Having the car on wheel dollies, has made it easy to turn it around and gain access to the panels being worked on with clear access.

turned around.jpg

The aerial hole on the left front guard was blanked off, as there will be no radio/stereo installation in the dashboard. The plan is to run a Bluetoothed system, hidden under the dashboard or the front passenger seat. The speakers will also be Bluetoothed, but not in any of the panels.

DSCN3084.jpg

There is still plenty to do, before it is ready for painting.

 

[Peter C]

Great work plus attention to detail Dano. You are truly lucky to have such a good example to check and compare to. Love your progress photos.

 

[Dano]

The body is perfect and the interior is simply astounding. [/QUOTE]



A better image of the interior in my friend's car.

 

[Dano]

The process of applying body filler, sanding and spraying primer filler started today.

The work begun with the right rear corner. This area of the car has undergone significant repairs to get it back into shape. It may have not been the worst section, but it was certainly up there.

I am so lucky to have Dan working with me, as he has taught me a lot along the way. Patience being the most important one.

The patched area atop of the right outer guard required a fair amount of attention and body filler. It was one of my first welding attempts.

Dan’s final result was perfect.

The two doors were relatively easier, compared to the rear panel. The fitted NOS door skins were near perfect, except for where they spot/plug welded to the frames. A quick wipe of filler over the welded areas and some feathering in sanding, was all that was required.

Once the panels were prepped, four coats of primer filler were applied.

More next Sunday.

 

[Dano]

Last try with the photos...

More small steps, over the last few days.


The Hydrovac brake booster was reassembled a few months back.

However, it would not hold pressure. In disgust and frustration, it was placed in the naughty corner. Anyhow, after checking and rechecking the manual (Thanks Colin), I was sure that it was assembled correctly. The only conclusion, I could come up with, was the little piston within the air intake housing and below the diaphragm was not moving. The original piston was fairly second-hand (buggered) and the company that re-sleeved the cylinder machined up a replacement brass piston.

The thinking was that the piston was the wrong size (Length) restricting movement. We are only taking a few millimetres here. Anyhow, cutting to the chase. When the company was shown what was happening, they agreed with my reasoning and offered to remake another piston as the replacement was slightly too big. The second piston was made shorter and a grub screw inserted in the bottom. This screw will allow for adjustment, when the system is re-installed and fine turning (fluid tested) is required.

Another job that has been sitting around was the completion of the heater box. As mentioned in an earlier entry, the heater core, water tap/valve and vent/flap seals were all replaced.

Unfortunately, efforts to find a new or good condition thermo(?) controlled tap proved fruitless, so a NOS ute version was installed. Not really sure, how or what the thermo tap/ valved did. But the car has a working heater and Mrs Dano is happy.

The housing was soaked in a mild soap solution for a few days, and then gently scrubbed clean. Once dry, it was polished using Brasso and elbow grease. When re-assembling it, 5mm stainless steel nuts and bolts were used to replace the original aluminium rivets. I learnt the hard way that old Bakelite is brittle, when tightening the front fascia panel. The lower front corner snapped off, when it was over tightened. A replacement panel was sourced (Thanks Andrew). It was cleaned and polished to match what had already been done. The image below shows a before and after comparison.

It is amazing what turns up when you are looking for something else. Today it was the box containing the steering column plastic shrouds, dashboard air vents and a heater control fascia in good condition.

Throughout the restoration process, I have collected and doubled up on many bits and pieces. This causes confusion at times, as the box I thought had the good bits in, was actually the seconds….

After watching numerous YouTube clips, I had a crack at polishing a section of stainless steel bumper bar to see how it would turn out. Like everything, patience and prep-work will be the key to success.

Cheers,

Dano

P.S. Can someone please tell me if this has worked?

 

[Armidillo]

Fantastic - your photos look great! I stumbled across the png trick by sheer accident - it must have been the default once when I was saving a file - I uploaded without realising that it was "wrong"!

Cheers

Alec

 

[Peter C]

Great work Dano and I'm glad to be able to see your latest pics. Do you have a rough estimate of the completion date in mind?

 

[Dano]

Hopefully, early next year. As long as the money tree sprouts again. ha ha

 

[Mike Tippett]

Hey, leave some on that tree for me!

 

[Dano]

Overhauled the starter motor today.

(still to be painted black)

It went fairly well, except I had to cannibalise a few bits from a couple of spare ones lying around. Mainly studs that hold the solenoid into positions and a main stud that hold the whole thing together. They were either stripped or just crappy.

In stock, I had a new Bendix, solenoid and small parts rebuild kit. The kit included just about every from wave washers, brushes, top and bottom armature bushes and a new metal base cover plate. As the existing brushes and Bendix were in good condition, they were not replaced

Not having done this before, the philosophy of lay it out as it comes apart and work backwards when assembling was employed.

What could possibly go wrong? Well not much, except for when replacing the plate that holds the brushes. In the kit were two Bakelite/Fibrous washers and two thin spring (Bent in a small curve) washers.

This is where I need some assistance.

The factory workshop manual is quite light on detail, so the spare parts manual was consulted. Again, not much of a help, as it just states washers or a full kit (As mentioned before).

I am assuming that the Bakelite washers are positioned as follows,
One on the shaft at the bottom of the winding (Armature)
The spring washer next,
the second Bakelite washer is next.
i.e. A sandwich effect (Bakelite, Metal, Bakelite) to prevent ware between the spinning armature and the plate. Is this correct?

I am unsure of the order as the washers fell out when dismantling.

Next question. Is there a way of checking the operation prior to putting it into the car?

Oh yeah, one last thing. The replacement solenoid is slightly different. In the image below, the one on the right is the new one. They are both sitting with the Ducellier name on the top, the difference is the new one has a male wire joiner of the left side and the threaded post on the right, as per the original. The threaded post also has an external shunt running from the post to the bottom terminal which has the short black lead that goes internally to the field coils. Is this OK?

The solenoid required replacing as the plastic casing was split top to bottom, through/around the terminals.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

I hope the above makes sense.

Cheers,

Dano

 

[lo203404]

Overhauled the starter motor today.

(still to be painted black)

It went fairly well, except I had to cannibalise a few bits from a couple of spare ones lying around. Mainly studs that hold the solenoid into positions and a main stud that hold the whole thing together. They were either stripped or just crappy.

In stock, I had a new Bendix, solenoid and small parts rebuild kit. The kit included just about every from wave washers, brushes, top and bottom armature bushes and a new metal base cover plate. As the existing brushes and Bendix were in good condition, they were not replaced

Not having done this before, the philosophy of lay it out as it comes apart and work backwards when assembling was employed.

What could possibly go wrong? Well not much, except for when replacing the plate that holds the brushes. In the kit were two Bakelite/Fibrous washers and two thin spring (Bent in a small curve) washers.

This is where I need some assistance.

The factory workshop manual is quite light on detail, so the spare parts manual was consulted. Again, not much of a help, as it just states washers or a full kit (As mentioned before).

I am assuming that the Bakelite washers are positioned as follows,
One on the shaft at the bottom of the winding (Armature)
The spring washer next,
the second Bakelite washer is next.
i.e. A sandwich effect (Bakelite, Metal, Bakelite) to prevent ware between the spinning armature and the plate. Is this correct?

I am unsure of the order as the washers fell out when dismantling.

Next question. Is there a way of checking the operation prior to putting it into the car?

Oh yeah, one last thing. The replacement solenoid is slightly different. In the image below, the one on the right is the new one. They are both sitting with the Ducellier name on the top, the difference is the new one has a male wire joiner of the left side and the threaded post on the right, as per the original. The threaded post also has an external shunt running from the post to the bottom terminal which has the short black lead that goes internally to the field coils. Is this OK?

The solenoid required replacing as the plastic casing was split top to bottom, through/around the terminals.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

I hope the above makes sense.

Cheers,

Dano

Hello Dan, found some bits that might be helpful. The image of the 6081 Ducel motor shows 'Celeron' washer first, that is, it is against the commutator, then the bevel washer after that. I've had that motor apart a few times for brushes and general clean ups, they get mighty dirty after a few years work. After assembly,depending on how much end play you have at the spring loaded end you might have to use the second Celeron washer to take up the slack. You should be able to put pressure on the bakerlite brake pad, and do the little bolt up by fingers, slight tap with 10mm ring spanner is all that is needed, it won't come off. My starter is only using the one Celeron washer and works fine.
Images show exploded views of disassembly of both types, Ducel & Paris Rhone that were common to the 404.
I usually test mine on the bench first, if you have a vice big enough to hold it all the better, healthy battery on the bench, negative lead from battery between jaws of vice and body of starter to form a good earth, positive lead from battery to the other big post on the starter solenoid, then a small lead from positive battery terminal and just 'BLIP' it on the other small terminal on the solenoid, 1 second is more than enough, if it's been put back together correctly, it will fire up.

 

[Dano]

Hi lo203404

Thanks for that informative information. Looks like I've got the washers right. As for testing, I'll give that a crack tomorrow, I have to buy a battery sooner or later.

Regards,

Dano

 

[Dano]

More panel work has been done over the last two Saturdays.

All that is left to filler prime now, is the engine bay, front stone panel (flat thing in front of the grille and under the bumper) and the bonnet. Than the blocking back process begins (Hand sanding the primed panels). Then it is off to the paint booth. Well all things being fair and equal, but we are talking about my restoration here. Nothing has met any previously timelines that have been set set.

I've never really been happy with rust areas on the front right corner of the bonnet and the support panel behind. The plan was to simply patch them, but having a NOS inner cross-member / support panel in amongst the stockpile, I erred on the side of caution and replaced it. Glad I did, because there was evidence of rust developing between the leading edge folds. It was also easier to make/fit the bonnet skin patch with the panel removed.

Next major job is to tackle the stainless steel polishing.


Cheers

Dano

 

[Peter C]

Quite a bit of mucking around but it looks as though you've achieved a good result. 404 bonnets do not seem to have been designed very well as they very often rust along the front.

 

[Russell Hall]

Rust is an assembly failure. The bonnets may have arrived rusty but the affected area may have been difficult to buff. Phosphoric acid dipping only did a fair job. That car has fared well for its age. Sometimes they were showing rust at three or four and a new one was returned by a dealer with seam rust. What is a problem on the 404 is bonnet latch failure.

 

[GRAHAM WALLIS]

Rust in bonnet due to double panelling, that area collecting moisture. TC and onwards Cortinas are worse and for the same reason.