what do I have and what can I use?

And yes! Holy heck that thing is super cool! :D

Just look at that front suspension being used in the rear like it should[emoji14]

Also, I like to think this is really what a 12 looks like after all the panels are rusted free Into the universe :D
 
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saje said:
Hi Jaahn,
BEKs (bike engined cars - are a very common configuration especially in hillclimb cars, formula 1000, etc. Calculations were based on the current car weight including current 60hp R12 engine/box versus a 160/180hp litre bike engine (in which the 6 speed sequential box is integral, this drives a chain driving a sprocket coupled diff centre mounted on chassis via pillow block bearings. Relatively simple set up, very light and final drive ratio infinitely variable via sprocket changes. Though you are correct, i forgot to include driver weight in calculations.
But obviously if i can just bolt on a higher output budget Renault engine this would be much easier. I can just see myself getting a bit tired of 60hp :)
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Hi saje :)
Yes good to see you have the ideas. OK. I would be interested in the weight of it.
I did suggest a supercharger which at ~7PSi would make that engine roughtly equal to a 2 Lt engine. Some decent exhaust and an old big SU would be cheap and easy. A bit of head work and a cam too for another stage. Just saying !! Or even a turbo if that takes your fancy.
I have built a car or two for club work in past years so have some idea of what works. :2cents:

On another front does anyone know if the R19 engines fit that 12 gearbox easy. The 1.8 series two engines put out a good performance and have SOHC and EFI too. They must be cheap and easy to get now and like all renos were reliable if thrashed. The 1.8 put out 100+ HP standard in a manual.
Jaahn
 
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Weren't they all iron blocks? Ie, quite heavy compared to the 8/10/12 engines?
 
bowie said:
Weren't they all iron blocks? Ie, quite heavy compared to the 8/10/12 engines?
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Hi bowie :)
Yes iron blocks as were the 8/10/12 engines ! Not sure about the heavy bit as Renault had all 3 series of these engines, 1108, 1300/1400 and 1700/1800 available as options in a variety of cars in the 70s, 80s and 90s. Both north/south and east/west mounting. So they must have been not too different in weight. That is why I though they might fit similar gearboxes.
Jaahn
 
Hi Bowie :0
Mate if you could follow the combinations and variations of the Renault engine range and the numbering codes, over the 80s and 90s and beyond you would be a genius ??? I guess being a major auto player in Europe and other countries and producing a vast range of cars for Europe under pollution regs and USA with Chrysler and also in third world countries where cheap was tops then what we saw here was just a tiny glimpse of them.
Wikipedia is a bit hard to read too as some articles are obviously translated and not too good for some engines.:(

But there seems to be scope for finding some engine that would fit and go OK. The R19s are unloved now and there must be lots in wreckers and backyards that would be almost available for the effort of taking them away. The scrap merchants have stopped trawling for cars now the price is so low. :)
Jaahn
 
When discussing engine weight what really may matter some, is the weight of a long motor. For a race car only a very small alternator is needed and if weight was really important no starter. Push start it, although a pain if you spin and stall. The carbs and inlet manifold will be different to original as will the exhaust manifold. Most of those items will weigh near enough to the same whether on a 12 engine or an aluminium block Reno engine. Hence the weight comparison of a long motor would be better.
 
Now that R19 sounds promising and if prices really are as cheap as you say Jaahns, then it fits my budget too�� A quick gumtree and ebay search yeilds nothing though.
Shoji san, it was built using R12 mechanicals but was constructed in 2004 and only did a few hillclimbs so would be eligible for G
E.A.R days but not for historics for about another 14 years, so keeping it original gives no real benefits. I won't be keeping this too many years as i have another project in the works which is my real passion, this beast is just a bit of fun in the meantime.
 
You would just be replacing one old engine with another, look at the K4M's from a Clio, they are 15yrs younger, ~100hp stock, and you can still get bits from repco / supercheap.
 
Most likely, but no idea re clutch / flywheel / input shaft.
 
saje said:
Quick question, would a Fuego motor bolt up to my gearbox?
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You will need to change the bell housing and the input shaft, and gear ratios will probably be wrong.

In standard form these put out about 110 HP.

You will most likely run into space problems as well because the Fuego engine is physically quite bigger and is also heavier.
 
OK, rule that one out, too much work. Thanks for replies!

Guess I could turbo or supercharge. Anyone on Aussiefrogs done a simple blown 12?
 
saje said:
Quick question, would a Fuego motor bolt up to my gearbox?
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If I had to stick a Renault 2l donk in, it would be from a clio sport.
If it was a turbo 2l, it would be from a Megan sport,

Just go nuts and throw a RB26 in!!
 
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jo proffi said:
If I had to stick a Renault 2l donk in, it would be from a clio sport.
If it was a turbo 2l, it would be from a Megan sport,

Just go nuts and throw a RB26 in!!
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In a world where i had ample funds, those options would be a goer. BUT, ample funds i do not have. $500 TOPS is my budget. So maybe a 2nd hand rurbo or supercharger unit. I have no idea about turbos and don't want to fit decomp plate so low boost would be the go. Supercharger seems possible. Suck thru a 1 3/4 SU which i have and simply work out pulley ratios. Turbo, would really need help with that one, ie- which unit would be best suited.
 
Or look further afield. The R12 engine was built under licence all over the world. It's almost impossible someone didn't up the power. The variants built in Romania for instance evolved to a monopoint injection at the end of its life with about 70HP or something like that. I would hazard a guess bits would just bolt on. Dunno how hard would be to get those, though.

South America built these as well and they have quite a following. See what you can find there.

500 bucks doesn't allow for much, but I would look at electronic ignition like Megajolt or some such.That'll eat into the budget a bit, but it will give you some extra tuning possibilities.

On the other hand, with your budget I don't think you'd get much change if you just rebuilt the engine stock with new parts where possible. At least you'll know you have the rated power back.
 
Hi saje:)
For a more sensible reply ! Here is the Merc small supercharger, they seem unwanted mostly. Perhaps small Merc owners do not play with their cars to hot 'em up much. No need for power on the trip to the hairdresser :)
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/MERCEDE...m=112599807954&_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851

If you were sensible with the pressure you would get a reasonable power boost without too much work or problems. Water injection was a traditional method to control some problems. Water is cheap too :(

There is no technical difference between the boost from a supercharger or a turbo, so a decompression plate is not required or is required for the same reasons for both. The difference between the two boost methods is the physical way of doing it. Turbos use a waste gate to control the boost pressure, you just gear the supercharger to get the boost correct.

Read up about it in a real book instead of relying on crap from the internet. {Or worse still Utube} :(
Jaahn
 
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