what do I have and what can I use?

Yeah with $500, you are not going to get very far. I'd also recommend just rebuilding the stock thing, maybe shave the head to get some proper compression in there (since you have an SU for it), lighten the flywheel, have everything balanced (you will easilly spend $500 just on that) and just drive the nugget :) :)

We are all already jealous. Did you have another? How much :blackeye:
 
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you probably already have 80+ hp

Standard single throat carb 1289cc R12 engine 60hp SAE at 5250rpm

standard Dual throat carb R12 1289cc engine 68 hp SAE at 5500rpm

Standard "V85" spec Renault 1289cc engine with dual throat carb 81hp SAE at 5900rpm (72hp DIN).

Your engine probably already has a mild cam (Wade do a few good ones) and with the headers and twin SUs it's probably over 80hp and under 100hp.

These engines are strong and under 100kg. Good luck getting better bang for buck for $500 or even $1000.
 
saje said:
In a world where i had ample funds, those options would be a goer. BUT, ample funds i do not have. $500 TOPS is my budget.
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$500 is closer to $0 than what this sort of stuff will cost....so get what you have in the car working without spending a cent, and buy some tyres and go racing.
Jo
 
Good advice. Actually, I just realised all of us who barged in to show off our wisdom have forgotten the tires. Which may well cost more than the proposed budget.

Change of plans.

Price a set of tires and if they're in budget see what's left and then ask for advice here. Right now, I think you'd be lucky to have enough to fill the tank.
 
Nah this guy seems to know whats going on, I mean you don't just run off and buy an open wheeler just because.

And can I have a go? :cool:
 
Tyres are 2nd hand F3, and already have a set. DIY tyre softener will do for hillclimbs. Um, yes, to fill the tank is only 5 litres. Should afford that.
Well, I've named $500 as my budget, let's see what I can do. I don't see a freshen up as value for money. Might get me a half dozen hp back at best but engine doesn't seem too tired. Balancing might make a bit of difference but bang for buck, not great value.
To be clear, I'm not out to win anything. Could care less actually. Just want some fun and 60hp will provide that....for a time.
 
saje said:
Just want some fun and 60hp will provide that....for a time.
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I really wish you'd stop calling it a 60hp engine. As I said above 60hp was just the most basic version of this engine. Sure if the guy who built your engine did bad head work and fitted an inappropriate camshaft, it might only produce 60hp, but if they left the head standard and fitted an appropriate camshaft it would likely produce around 80hp with that exhaust and carbs. If they were smart with their head work and did a lot of time on a dyno, it might even produce 90-100hp.

These engines are similar to the Nissan A12 and Toyota 4K which were cheap, light, strong and easy to hot up. There's a reason so many motorsport specials used those engines. Often, when I go to a club motorsport event, these kinds of cars can still be near the top of the field, provided they are properly looked after, and have good tyres, brake pads and balanced handling (and a good driver).
 
davemcbean said:
Standard single throat carb 1289cc R12 engine 60hp SAE at 5250rpm

standard Dual throat carb R12 1289cc engine 68 hp SAE at 5500rpm

Standard "V85" spec Renault 1289cc engine with dual throat carb 81hp SAE at 5900rpm (72hp DIN).

Your engine probably already has a mild cam (Wade do a few good ones) and with the headers and twin SUs it's probably over 80hp and under 100hp.

These engines are strong and under 100kg. Good luck getting better bang for buck for $500 or even $1000.
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Ok, google search doesnt tell me what V85 refers to except it is in an Alpine and may or may not have domed pistons. What exactly is V85?
Im not running the SU carbs. They were too large and the home made manifold was very poorly executed. Ive put a weber downdraught and what looks to becan original manifold and now just need a good tune. Already has electronic ignition fitted to dizzy.
 
saje said:
Ok, google search doesnt tell me what V85 refers to except it is in an Alpine and may or may not have domed pistons. What exactly is V85?
Im not running the SU carbs. They were too large and the home made manifold was very poorly executed. Ive put a weber downdraught and what looks to becan original manifold and now just need a good tune. Already has electronic ignition fitted to dizzy.
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The V85 was the base model of the Alpine A110 and the highest selling model. It had a Renault 12 1289cc engine with the same 32DIR weber progressive carb as the R12TS/GL and the same 9:1 compression ratio (so pistons are likely the same), but instead of 68hp SAE at 5500rpm, it produced 81hp SAE at 5900rpm. I'd be willing to bet a large some of money that the only difference between this engine and a R12TS engine are the exhaust, camshaft and air filter.
 
20180829_123456.jpgThanks for the info davemcbean!
I say 60hp because as mentioned before, far as i know this is a bog standard engine except for headers.Def no headwork done.The twin SU carb manifold was poorly executed and would have cost hp at best. It could be fixed and i might have a go at it, but would require filling and re-blending to the mating surface.
It may have a cam as it runs 'lumpy' but this may be the timing and poor tuning of the carb. Previous owner said he had ignition set on something which seemed way too high (23° btdc if i recall). Will sus it out when i get a timing light.
Finishing off the re-wiring and now fitting some gloor bracingbto the ladder frame chassis then partial new flooring. After that align wheels and take for a run. Then start to play with engine and suspension geometry.
 
saje said:
View attachment 108812Thanks for the info davemcbean!
I say 60hp because as mentioned before, far as i know this is a bog standard engine except for headers.Def no headwork done.
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The 68hp engine was just as common in Australia (although I guess expressed in DIN figures rather than SAE, it's probably about 60hp). This is the one with the twin throat Weber as fitted to the R12 GL. The single throat Solex 60hp version was fitted to the R12 TL. After they went 1.4 litre in 1976 they all had the Weber and 66hp DIN.

Given the R12 was one of the most popular European cars on Sydney roads in the 1970s (I counted 12 complete cars in Casula Auto wreckers in 1991), someone is bound to have a few motors and both good stock and hot bits lying around. Ask David Collier at Collier Automotive in Granville. He's the old Renault Guru in Sydney and may know were there's some hot bits lying about (cam, carb, headers) and what ones work relatively well together.
 
davemcbean said:
The 68hp engine was just as common in Australia (although I guess expressed in DIN figures rather than SAE, it's probably about 60hp). This is the one with the twin throat Weber as fitted to the R12 GL. The single throat Solex 60hp version was fitted to the R12 TL. After they went 1.4 litre in 1976 they all had the Weber and 66hp DIN.

Given the R12 was one of the most popular European cars on Sydney roads in the 1970s (I counted 12 complete cars in Casula Auto wreckers in 1991), someone is bound to have a few motors and both good stock and hot bits lying around. Ask David Collier at Collier Automotive in Granville. He's the old Renault Guru in Sydney and may know were there's some hot bits lying about (cam, carb, headers) and what ones work relatively well together.
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Awesome thanks mate. Will definitely give him a call.
 
saje said:
O K, so got a Sakura oil filter from evilbay for $24 delivered. Wasn't sure about Sakura but reviews seemed good.
Weight seems to range from 85kg to 116kg for engine alone. Ad another 35ish kg for the box and we're looking at close to 150kg for 60 to 80hp. Read one of Frans 807 build threads and looks like several thousand ($1200 in webers alone) for about 130 to 150 highly strung (on the track) hp. This might be heresy to the French car lovers here (though rest of mechanicals would remain R12) but on a purely practical level, seems i can get stock reliable 160hp, albeit with a drop in torque, from a 1000cc motorbike engine with a 60kg drop in weight for about $1200. Power to weight would go from 1:0.127 to 1: 0.39 , a tripling with nice weight reduction and highly reliable. Anyway, this is dreaming further down the 'track'.
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Hi,

I would like to mention that the engine build you read about (mentioned above) in a Dauphine, was on a par with a Toyota Starlet powered by a Suzuki Hyabusa engine. Times were always as close as tenths and hundreds of a second on their runs. However the Hyabusa gearbox spat its dummy a few times due to the added weight of the Starlet body even though it is highly modified and it is as light as possible.

Unfortunately the 807 engine and the Dauphine are now racing in Japan, bought by a well known racer over there.

So "highly strung" can pop up at a different source, the gearbox. Racing is never plain sailing.

Frans.
 
Spending most the last few weeks (when i get the chance) replacing floor, bracing chassis and fabbing new gearshift mechanism.
I know there are 40mm weber manifolds for this engine, but just wondering if there are 45mm manifolds? I ask this as i could possibly adapt the 1 3/4" SU carbs to that instead of trying to fix manifold that i have, which will never be a great result , though better than what i have now.
 

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Or maybe i should just run this carb. Any ideas on jet/tube sizes?
 

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I will have a 40 DCOE Weber (Italian & recently rebuilt) and associated manifold from the V85 engine in my A110 available for sale in the next 4 weeks or so if you're interested....would bolt straight onto your engine.
 
20180911_123533.jpgHaving intermittent ignition probs at the moment making tuning impossible. Got a spare old coil will try later. Also will need a low pressure fuel reg as electric fuel pump runs at 7psi and max seems should be 3 if i recall.
Bowie, thanks for link. I chipped away the epoxy on carb body and found the carby to be a 34 DMS. It is progressive and not synchronous and is apparently an upgrade for some fiat spiders. Running very rich in my beastie though.
I bought some JB Weld to build up the SU manifold porting (thanks US drag tuners for that tip)and will try to shape it more favourably for entry to head ports.
 
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