Manic 108 rebuild onto new R8 /10 platform

[dacia4x4]

Hi Manicgt
same as John w said,i haven,t seen those metal brackets before although they appear to have a part no,on them they may be a genuine competition accessory.As far as I can recollect the angle brackets that mount to rear crossmember down to your side mounts do have a raised vertical section in the centre of them to which the curve in your metal outer brace brackets would go over.It appears that the metal outer brace with curve in it would brdge across outer flange of rubber mount thus reducing flex in mount,almost giving a metal to metal join between gearbox and crossmember.As john said I used to use longer bolts on upper inner bracket mounts to draw bracket up to crossmember,fit outer bolts and then fit shorter bolts ot inner one at a time.this will bring the mounts up away from the boot (pinchpoint in your 3rd photo) which should be ok than.....just a thought...jim

 

[dacia4x4]

As John says, pull up the rubber mounts with long bolts. They then just brush the boot. Actually I always have the boot in place when I bolt up the mounts. I have never seen the bracket you show. Although the few numbers we can see do look rather like the way Renault part numbers are often painted onto parts.

Old Renault minds think alike......just a thought.....jim

 

[JohnW]

As John says, pull up the rubber mounts with long bolts. They then just brush the boot. Actually I always have the boot in place when I bolt up the mounts. I have never seen the bracket you show. Although the few numbers we can see do look rather like the way Renault part numbers are often painted onto parts.

That's true. Replacement parts that are sprayed black with white, stencilled numbers, are what I remember. I've only once needed to do this job, but I'm a dilletante.

 

[Aln]

As far as I can recollect the angle brackets that mount to rear crossmember down to your side mounts do have a raised vertical section in the centre of them to which the curve in your metal outer brace brackets would go over.

I use 12mm spacers between the angle brackets and the crossmember, to take away some of the strain/preload on the side mounts for the gearbox. This also gives a little more negative camber without lowering the springs. The rubber boots still fit OK once the mounts are fully in place. These mounts often tear away and so my thinking by using the spacers was to reduce this. The mounts in my modded 4CV have been in 26 years and are just pulling away a little at the corners.

 

[Manic GT]

As John says, pull up the rubber mounts with long bolts. They then just brush the boot. Actually I always have the boot in place when I bolt up the mounts. I have never seen the bracket you show. Although the few numbers we can see do look rather like the way Renault part numbers are often painted onto parts.

These are under the race section of Mecca parts . for 112.17 Euro's .

Manic Gt

 

[Manic GT]

I started looking into some other mounting types and seen Mecca also sells a heavy duty version of the side mounts .

I wonder if the original side mounts where troublesome enough that some one felt they needed this type of a upgrade ? and I don't think these heavier versions need the longer bolts to pull stuff into place !

Is their a horsepower out put that one should be changing over to the heavier units ?

The solid units look like they are also set up for a quick trans change out but how much of a vibration would be transmitted thru the mount into the body I wonder ??

Any one have experience with any of the above mountings and any thoughts ??

Maybe a little more research required before making original units fit !???

Stay well


Manic GT

 

[Frans]

Manic GT,

I don't use any of the factory mountings at all. In my opinion they are all a failure and I don't know if it is driving style or always more added horsepower but they don't last for me.

My thoughts are that in all other cars for example my old Ford Cortina or my Chevrolet C10 V8 the mountings where placed in such a position that the engine weight lies on the mounting and it forms a cushion as it should. The Renault engineers has designed them in such a way that they have to bear a shearing load, and they do shear always.

I have made the mountings by using the same metal parts but cleaned the rubber off and I welded metal tubes on. This metal tubes are the diameter of suspension bushes and that is what carries the weight at the gearbox top and sides. In the race car they have been withstanding bad treatment now for the 11th year and no signs of sagging or breaking.

This subject has came up in the past as well. I have the idea that the side mounts, which tear away, are there for the sideways thrust when going around the corner and the top mount is there for carrying the gearbox. This mount should have been designed in such a way that the gearbox weight must lie on top of the rubber but no, it is shearing the rubber as well.

The Mecaparts mountings shows how they try to make the same type but stronger which is a sign that the standard mounting is too weak.

My 2 cents worth. Frans.

 

[R8 Dream]

I use 12mm spacers between the angle brackets and the crossmember, to take away some of the strain/preload on the side mounts for the gearbox. This also gives a little more negative camber without lowering the springs. The rubber boots still fit OK once the mounts are fully in place. These mounts often tear away and so my thinking by using the spacers was to reduce this. The mounts in my modded 4CV have been in 26 years and are just pulling away a little at the corners.

I agree with Alan that this is how I fixed the problem with my R8. You can either buy these from GBS Alpine or make them up yourself (as I did) from 12mm Aluminium solid bar. You need to install these as shown, you get some neg camber and you take the shear strain away from the mounts.

 

[jaahn]

Hi
Another point of view. It seems to me there are two different ideas being conflated here, race and street. If you want to race or street race even, with bigger horse power then solid mounts will possibly be best and no problems with rubber peeling or shearing or anything if there is no rubber. Weld 'em up has always been an answer.
But if you want to get the subletly of the ride and noise suppression of the original Renault design with compliance for the radials etc then you might just have to put up with the limited 35+ year life you get driving it on the road sensibly. Hmmm
Your choice.

Jaahn

 

[Mike Tippett]

Nice to see a Manic GT being rebuilt in Canada. There used to be one parked in Kitsilano in Vancouver in the early eighties. Interesting cars. Cheers

 

[JohnW]

Hi
Another point of view. It seems to me there are two different ideas being conflated here, race and street. If you want to race or street race even, with bigger horse power then solid mounts will possibly be best and no problems with rubber peeling or shearing or anything if there is no rubber. Weld 'em up has always been an answer.
But if you want to get the subletly of the ride and noise suppression of the original Renault design with compliance for the radials etc then you might just have to put up with the limited 35+ year life you get driving it on the road sensibly. Hmmm
Your choice.

Jaahn

That sums it up very well I'd suggest! The design goes back to the early 1950s I'd add, when they started with a clean sheet of paper to develop the Dauphine as a more sophisticated saloon to supplement (not replace) the 4CV. The differences in ride quality and noise/vibration levels are dramatic.

It's perhaps a side issue for Mr Manic GT but a good discussion. If he develops one for serious track work in the future the way is clear!

 

[pugwash]

these mounts not only support the gearbox but prevent it rotating clockwise and anti clockwise under acceleration and deceleration ,giving a lot better feel of the rear tyre grip when balancing on opposite lock and the throttle ,after inducing lift off over steer ,i found ,[in the day ] replacing these mounts made a big difference to handling on the limit ,engine and gearbox both being firmly connected to the chassis,pugs

 

[Manic GT]

As a update I got the rear axle outer assembly put back together than started to move onto the installation of the transmission mounting onto the rear support assembly and I ran into another little challenge !
View attachment 120769View attachment 120770View attachment 120771View attachment 120772View attachment 120773
The side mount rubbers I had ordered does not allow for a easy installation of the dust boot cover at the swing knuckle so I compared the older style mounts to the new ones received and found that there was a difference between the new rubber mounts and the older units originally on the car . I guess my question is was there 2 different styles back in the day or is this just bad quality assurance from the supplier ?
I remember reading about others on the forum having a bit of difficult time installing new mounts after the original ones tore away from the metal plates an now I can fully understand how difficult it would be to force stuff together if the mount was made incorrect in the first place or if you had a mount intended for a different model ??!!

I will probably modify rubber mounts to work but thought I would just get some feed back to see if this is the norm first or I may just install the metal performance brackets and get rid of the rubber mounting .View attachment 120774

In the metal unit I was wondering why the bent portion in the bracket? and also on the mounting flanges was there a different set up back in the day ?? I have found a few rubber mounts that had a bolt thru them and the bolt head was under the bend portion so it made me wonder was that a factory thing or just something that was a back yard addition ?

stay well
Manic gt

I checked a few other mounts and found that the new mounts I received where not manufactured to proper specifications . I found a new orphaned mount that has a number moulded into the side of it than compared it to the unnumbered mount and found the mounts to be different that is why I asked about the different mounts thinking that possibly I had been sent the wrong mounts . It turns out after a few more comparisons that they where just built as a generic replacement with out the quality control factor considered . I modified them and now all is good ! note pictures to describe what I discovered with the mounts that the supplier sent me .

It sure was interesting to see all the different response's and thanks for the input ! and I will now save the steel brackets for another build with lots more horsepower like the 1647 engine with the 336 big box .

Thanks again
stay well

Manic gt

 

[JohnW]

Fascinating stuff.

Just a small one, before you go further, have you sealed the threads in the studs that go into the alloy casing? The lower ones are submerged and a common source of very small but frustrating oil leaks....

 

[putuguq]

Yo Manic
You’ve motivated me to have another crack at my 10S renovation project
Thanks



Sent from my iPhone using aussiefrogs

 

[JohnW]

Yo Manic
You’ve motivated me to have another crack at my 10S renovation project
Thanks
View attachment 120836


Sent from my iPhone using aussiefrogs

You'll need GALLONS of polish for that one.....

 

[Frans]

Manicgt asked me to post this "email written" story due to connection problems. So here goes a follow up after some years of relocating home and workshop into something that looks very desirable:

It has been some time since I posted about the Manic build this year is the 50th anniversary of the Manic GT car .

I have technically owned mine since 1974 the year we where married ! I had followed My own orginal Manic since it came thru the local Renault dealership .

I rember that I was to get married in just a couple weeks and we had no furniture yet plus the fact that I had also just purchased a R8 with a defective 688 motor it had a spun bearing and was suppose to be our extra car . The Manic had been rolled and had a dead engine ! My new bride to be still let me buy the car and it became a fixer upper for the two of us .

During the past few years a number of folks have visited the forum and as a result a interest in this little forgotten car has been generated from all parts of the globe so again thanks to Aussifrogs !

In the past two years at least 3 cars have been redone and a few others also started some have been made into either Concourse or at minimum road worthy which usually mean's a complete new platform had to be installed .

There is a attempt to update the Manic registry ,and I have been working with a few owners and Marvin Mcfalls to see what we can come up with .

At present we have found approximately 52 cars probably around 20 will be capable of being road worthy by year end of course these numbers may change as more info is forwarded .

As for my activities I have been busy trying to get a Manic workshop built !

Shot of original work site to the finish workshop the Manic shop is inside the original house . The foundations are for our downsized home which is now complete .

the transaxle is complete and the new 1340 cc 810 block is in the back ground still need to install pistons and choose a head for the project . Starting to install gas tank windshields and interior . Still a ways to go !

Time sure has past quickly but getting closer to play with my retirement cars .

Hope pictures come across okay .

stay well

Manic GT

 

[Sunroof]

Love the photos and the story, bride to be sounds like a keeper. No furniture and another project car instead, wow.

 

[COL]

Love the photos and the story, bride to be sounds like a keeper. No furniture and another project car instead, wow.

Yes great story

 

[Mike Tippett]

One's popped up in Richmond BC. No. 00152.