Koleos Hints, Tips, Problems

Well the Koliflower is now starting to get the dreaded gearbox shudder so is likely due the chop.
It will be a trip to the workshop and then probably a trip to the wrecking yard when they say you're up for a new box.
After my previous dalliance with the DP0 in the Scenic I should have known better then to trust a Renault (and Nissan) automatic.

What is it with Renault that they can't make a decent auto gearbox.
Granted, Renault don't make the auto gear boxes but get them from third parties, Seimens for the DP0 and Jatco for the Koleos box (whatever type number that is), but it would be to Renault's specification.
Okay I get it that the French people predominantly drive manuals but cars these days are not made for just one market but a supposed to be 'world cars' and the Koleos isn't even made in France.
Like it or not, most places are either headed towards or primarily sell automatics. If you can't get an auto box right you're going to be out on your arse.
The Koleos is built in Korea with a Japanese designed drive-train and the Japanese are accustomed to automatics. Should be more reliable than a DP0 thought I. Wrong it seems.

Cheer RTT

PS. Sorry for the rant, I've got the shits but I guess you know that already.
 
REN TIN TIN said:
Well the Koliflower is now starting to get the dreaded gearbox shudder so is likely due the chop.
It will be a trip to the workshop and then probably a trip to the wrecking yard when they say you're up for a new box.
After my previous dalliance with the DP0 in the Scenic I should have known better then to trust a Renault (and Nissan) automatic.

What is it with Renault that they can't make a decent auto gearbox.
Granted, Renault don't make the auto gear boxes but get them from third parties, Seimens for the DP0 and Jatco for the Koleos box (whatever type number that is), but it would be to Renault's specification.
Okay I get it that the French people predominantly drive manuals but cars these days are not made for just one market but a supposed to be 'world cars' and the Koleos isn't even made in France.
Like it or not, most places are either headed towards or primarily sell automatics. If you can't get an auto box right you're going to be out on your arse.
The Koleos is built in Korea with a Japanese designed drive-train and the Japanese are accustomed to automatics. Should be more reliable than a DP0 thought I. Wrong it seems.

Cheer RTT

PS. Sorry for the rant, I've got the shits but I guess you know that already.
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Never having been the recipient of this (to me) hitherto unknown "dreaded gearbox shudder" I and perhaps some others would be obliged if you could not only accurately and in detail describe this problem but also indicate where in print or other media this problem has been reported often enough to make it some kind of known and accepted failure? (My own 2008 Koleos is a diesel with a six speed automatic slushbox which can be confused by heavy handed throttle inputs but otherwise shows no sign of failure.)
 
This is a CVT not the conventional 6 speed auto as found in the diesels.
The problem is hard to describe but it occurs when accelerating when you have been off the throttle. For example you coast down a hill and then press the accelerator to go up the next hill the car judders. Ease off the accelerator and the judder disappears and may or may not come back when you accelerate again. Easing off the accelerator while one needs to accelerate up a hill is not really desirable. It doesn't have to be 'heavy handed' acceleration, even mild to moderate acceleration can induce the shudder. Doesn't happen when taking off from being stopped just when accelerating from low(ish) speed after coasting and it can be on flat ground. It's not the computer choosing gear.

A google search on 'cvt transmisson problems' will pull up millions of results, granted a lot are from other makes like Honda or Subaru but Jatco and Nissan also feature heavily. While Honda and Subaru don't use Jatco boxes to my knowledge, they work on the same principal.
Renault, not so much but Renault are thinner on the ground than Nissan, Honda, etc. but search Koleos transmission problems, Koleos gearbox problems, or Koloes CVT problems and there are no shortage of results.
 
REN TIN TIN said:
This is a CVT not the conventional 6 speed auto as found in the diesels.
The problem is hard to describe but it occurs when accelerating when you have been off the throttle. For example you coast down a hill and then press the accelerator to go up the next hill the car judders. Ease off the accelerator and the judder disappears and may or may not come back when you accelerate again. Easing off the accelerator while one needs to accelerate up a hill is not really desirable. It doesn't have to be 'heavy handed' acceleration, even mild to moderate acceleration can induce the shudder. Doesn't happen when taking off from being stopped just when accelerating from low(ish) speed after coasting and it can be on flat ground. It's not the computer choosing gear.

A google search on 'cvt transmisson problems' will pull up millions of results, granted a lot are from other makes like Honda or Subaru but Jatco and Nissan also feature heavily. While Honda and Subaru don't use Jatco boxes to my knowledge, they work on the same principal.
Renault, not so much but Renault are thinner on the ground than Nissan, Honda, etc. but search Koleos transmission problems, Koleos gearbox problems, or Koloes CVT problems and there are no shortage of results.
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Thank you for your description. The methodology behind my purchase of the Koleos was that I really wanted a manual diesel, but so few were imported I had to settle for the slushbox version. In your case I'd start by blaming the Dutch for inventing the Variomatic transmission on which all CVT's are based. Then I'd be looking at the service history of my car: CVT transmissions have a strict and delicate service maintenance schedule that customers should try to adhere to. Treating a CVT transmission like a regular automatic transmission can cause reliability issues down the road that can end up making the transmission more costly to repair than a conventional automatic. Proper maintenance goes a long way into extending a transmission’s life, whether it’s a CVT or a traditional one.
 
We have been over this controversial business of CVT maintenance before, several times, and I am still not aware of my Koleos requiring :
to quote Kim Luck, "a strict and delicate service maintenance schedule that customers should try to adhere to".
My Service Handbook does not mention any 'service requirements' for the CVT. When I asked the Service Manager at a Renault Dealer, he/she was unaware of any such requirement either. When I pointed out the dipstick that goes into the transmission, he/she queried: "what dipstick".
Please, I need to know what I need to know. Help me.
Having just recently conquered the pesky business of coolant drain and flush, I am ready for my next big challenge!
 
Breitie said:
We have been over this controversial business of CVT maintenance before, several times, and I am still not aware of my Koleos requiring :
to quote Kim Luck, "a strict and delicate service maintenance schedule that customers should try to adhere to".
My Service Handbook does not mention any 'service requirements' for the CVT. When I asked the Service Manager at a Renault Dealer, he/she was unaware of any such requirement either. When I pointed out the dipstick that goes into the transmission, he/she queried: "what dipstick".
Please, I need to know what I need to know. Help me.
Having just recently conquered the pesky business of coolant drain and flush, I am ready for my next big challenge!
Click to expand...

Here is the whole article from which I took my unattributed quote, perhaps you should show it to your local service agent: https://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2018/01/are-cvt-transmissions-reliable-.html
 
My car has has 'log book' servicing it's entire life.
The ones after the warranty period were not at a Renault franchise but independents.
I can't see anything specific in the logbook for gearbox maintenance so maybe apart from checking the level it's untouched.
I did take the liberty of checking the gearbox level which is all one can do without dropping the oil and opening up the box.
Oil level was fine and the oil was a light honey colour. There was no particles or a burnt note to the smell.
 
Kim Luck said:
Here is the whole article from which I took my unattributed quote, perhaps you should show it to your local service agent: https://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2018/01/are-cvt-transmissions-reliable-.html
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OK, that's it!

I don't need something new to stress over every day! Get rid of the Koleos asap and buy an all electric car now! Nissan Leaf seems the goods. I already ride an all electric scooter that is great, except for new batteries every two years at $500 a pop.

Hi Kim Luck, thank you for the very interesting and informative information. I like the Toyota video which is easy to comprehend.

I was aware of how CVT's work and have always been wondering how long that thin steel band will last. But, seeing that it is a 'push' system where the steel segments are under compression as opposed to a 'pull' system where the steel band would get stretched, like in the transmission of my Piaggio scooter that has a simple rubber drive belt that runs over two cones and 'pulls', it seems to work quite well.

Well enough for most (many) manufacturers to adopt it. Would certainly be cheaper than all those multiple fancy gears and clutches. By the way, I recall VW having a devil of a time with their 'Doppel Kupplung Getriebe" a while back!

As for trying to 'educate' my "local service agent"! Ha ha ha! Pull the other one. Have to identify and find them first.
At present they are still busy trying to find out what colour coolant goes into the Koleos.
 
The attached video is NOT of your transmission, but a slightly stronger one fitted to the Murano. It is very similar and the points that the mechanic raises are probably going to be identical for the transmission in the Koleos. I might also point out that I have been unable to locate RenTinTin's "shuddering" problem in any part of the Nissan X-Trail's workshop manual troubleshooting guide. Could it possibly be a broken engine mount or driveshaft on the way out?
 
The attached video is NOT of your transmission, but a slightly stronger one fitted to the Murano. It is very similar and the points that the mechanic raises are probably going to be identical for the transmission in the Koleos. I might also point out that I have been unable to locate RenTinTin's "shuddering" problem in any part of the Nissan X-Trail's workshop manual troubleshooting guide. Could it possibly be a broken engine mount or driveshaft on the way out?
 
Kim Luck said:
Could it possibly be a broken engine mount or driveshaft on the way out?
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I must admit, that was a thought that crossed my mind.
You'd certainly want to eliminate that possibility.

Jo
 
Kim Luck said:
Interesting! I have a black leather-bound wheel on my 2008 which is still in quite reasonable condition, no worn patches.
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I have seen brown leather age very well. The Koleos' wheel appears to have a sprayed on finish rather than having the beige die permeating the leather. This may be why the beige-interiored model after mine went to a dark wheel. It's not super bad, but annoying all the same.
 
Kim Luck said:
The attached video is NOT of your transmission, but a slightly stronger one fitted to the Murano. It is very similar and the points that the mechanic raises are probably going to be identical for the transmission in the Koleos. I might also point out that I have been unable to locate RenTinTin's "shuddering" problem in any part of the Nissan X-Trail's workshop manual troubleshooting guide. Could it possibly be a broken engine mount or driveshaft on the way out?


Click to expand...

Strange you can't find anything on CVT shudder, quick google search pulled up 204,000 results, not all Renault or Nissan but appears relatively common across other brands (Toyota, Subaru, Honda, etc.) as well. I'll take your word it's not in the X-Trail workshop manual (which I don't have) but it's also not in the Renault service manual either. Could be a relatively new problem now that CVT's are getting high mileages or everybody knew about this all along but said nothing so they didn't scare away the punters. There could be Renault/Nissan service bulletins covering this but I don't have access to them if they exist. In fact, there is little to no information on CVT transmissions in any manuals or Koleos information while the conventional 6 speed auto is reasonably well covered. Guess Nissan, Renault and JATCO don't want people doing any troubleshooting or maintenance on the CVT. If it breaks, scrap or replace (at huge cost).


Yes it could be engine mounts and/or driveshaft or driveline issues and these possibilities were also checked. It's a 4WD so rear tailshaft and driveline were also checked even though the shudder appears in 2WD mode.
Anyway, I guess, like most intermittent problems, I'll have to put up with the issue until something catastrophic occurs then we'll know what's wrong.

Cheers
RTT
 

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I have a SM14 Gearbox Fault Finding manual which covers the CVT (2WD) but it mostly talks about fault codes and there aren't any.
One interesting thing I saw was the oil change counter recommend the oil should be changed at 210,000. I changed the oil recently at well below 210000.
 
I have a SM14 Gearbox Fault Finding manual which covers the CVT (2WD) but it mostly talks about fault codes and there aren't any.
One interesting thing I saw was the oil change counter recommend the oil should be changed at 210,000. I changed the oil recently at well below 210000.
 
The tolerances of modern gearboxes are such that they will operate for AT LEAST 5 years without attention.
The warranty of the car carrying said box was/is 3/5 years.
Apart from "dead on arrival" faults - effectively a CVT box that failed soon after delivery, they (Renault/Nissan) will all say "that is a characteristic of the box", pushing the inevitable to POST warranty period.
Sorry your gearbox has failed but it is out of warranty.

That is why they say the gearbox has no servicing regime - SEALED FOR LIFE.

If you go in and talk to gearbox specialists (such as [but not restricted to] Manuel Automatics here in Melb), they suggest changes "early and often".

As a member of RCCV we did a tour of the MA in the last couple of years, and the place is huge.
The horror stories and recommendations by them were astounding.

If you are a person who keeps their vehicle longer than the warranty period (like I am), get it done by them.
That is a specialist box repairer.
Their life and blood are boxes and they know the faults.

If XYZ Oil Co came up with a sealed for life engine oil, and manufacturers used it - no-one would believe them.
We know that contamination occurs, debris accumulate, oxidation occurs, hydrocarbons that make up the lubricants break down etc.
In that scenario, no doubt you would say, rubbish, and do your own oil change, IRRESPECTIVE of what the manufacturer advised.

So IMHO, go outside the network and get the CVT fluid changed first and then investigate mechanical failures next.

My better half has a german made car (not the peoples car) the box is sealed for life (according to service department).
All gearbox people I have spoken to say change fluid, 80k or 5 years max.
Interesting, the word is, that the maker ZF says 80 k as well.

The motto for boxes is - CHANGE FLUID EARLY & OFTEN
 
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