DS voltage regulator wiring

Methinks you may have a bad diode in the alternator. The diodes do two things. They rectify the alternating current into something that resembles direct current and, they prevent current from flowing backwards from the battery through the alternator to ground.
 
forumnoreason said:
I have an alternator which according to an auto electrician is cranking, and a light on the dash which will not extinguish, a quick test showed the alternator is at 12.8 volts. And the battery is draining so I am wondering what the fugazi is wrong.

You have to remember Bill this is someone who buys reverse lights, installs them and then after testing over and over realises they didn’t come with bulbs.
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Sorry, I had to laugh at that. We've all made stupid mistakes like that before- Lord knows how many I've made-
but that's just funny.

I think John has it exactly- one of your alternator diodes has gone walkabout. They're not hard or expensive to do, but IIRC they're a press-fit into the rectifier. Your sparky should be able to sort that. While you're at it, at least have him check the bearings.
 
forumnoreason said:
quick question is 32 actually on the ignition switch?

the wire I added from the brown wire on the ignition switch goes to the battery and I think it should go to the bob connection.
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I just noticed this- 32 is the start switch off a BVM car. The start switch at the wand. It sends a ground signal to the battery-mounted solenoid on the BVM cars. A manual late model (round dial) has it's start switch in the ignition switch. It sends a positive signal directly to the solenoid on the starter itself. This changed somewhat in '72, when the factory went to one starter type for everybody.
 
Hotrodelectric said:
Chris, you magnificent bas****, I could kiss you. That latest update from you has the late model RHD diagrams. Now, if I could locate the US diagrams.
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haha, those have been available for a while now Bill, very useful for us RHD owners (and the colour is very handy). . . :blush:

There are a couple of US specific uploads

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/tv0b25gp...ctrical?dl=0&preview=1970+DS-21+US+Wiring.pdf

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/tv0b25gp...Electrical?dl=0&preview=WiringUS-Update69.pdf

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/tv0b25gp...Va/Electrical?dl=0&preview=65-69ID+Wiring.pdf

Nice one for dismantling the Simplex ignition switch
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/tv0b25gp...rical?dl=0&preview=Dismantling+Ign+switch.pdf

You have to check the dropbox link occasionally to see if there have been updates.

Cheers
Chris
 
GreenBlood said:
haha, those have been available for a while now Bill, very useful for us RHD owners (and the colour is very handy). . . :blush:

There are a couple of US specific uploads

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/tv0b25gp...ctrical?dl=0&preview=1970+DS-21+US+Wiring.pdf

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/tv0b25gp...Electrical?dl=0&preview=WiringUS-Update69.pdf

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/tv0b25gp...Va/Electrical?dl=0&preview=65-69ID+Wiring.pdf

Nice one for dismantling the Simplex ignition switch
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/tv0b25gp...rical?dl=0&preview=Dismantling+Ign+switch.pdf

You have to check the dropbox link occasionally to see if there have been updates.

Cheers
Chris
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Yah, thanks. I've known all about those ones for a while now. The two actual diagrams are from Chilton's manuals, which are useful, and the one from Garage Longueville is a friend of mine, Lon Price. What I want are the factory diagrams, now more to complete the collection than reference material.

I'm happy to now have access to the RHD stuff. That answers several questions for me (and makes helping Froggers like Steven a whole lot easier!). Now I don't have to guess and hope I'm right quite so much.
 
auto electrician mark2 has inspected alternator and reckons yes folks diodes shot AND someone has made a dogs breakfast of a repair sometime and there’s bits missing which suggests mark1 who was entrusted to rebuild it may have done a botch job. It didn’t work when I put it back in, mark2 AE was appalled but couldn’t say who might have caused it. ie recently or in the past. So plan A is wait to see if it can be repaired or B go for a citroenclassics alternator with internal reg or maybe there’s another option, anyone selling them in Oz anyone knows about? I’m ticked off I’ve spent money with some people who it would appear didn’t know how to solve the problem.
 
forumnoreason said:
auto electrician mark2 has inspected alternator and reckons yes folks diodes shot AND someone has made a dogs breakfast of a repair sometime and there’s bits missing which suggests mark1 who was entrusted to rebuild it may have done a botch job. It didn’t work when I put it back in, mark2 AE was appalled but couldn’t say who might have caused it. ie recently or in the past. So plan A is wait to see if it can be repaired or B go for a citroenclassics alternator with internal reg or maybe there’s another option, anyone selling them in Oz anyone knows about? I’m ticked off I’ve spent money with some people who it would appear didn’t know how to solve the problem.
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The easiest, least expensive solution I can think of is either find a parts alternator with no missing bits or find one that has been rebuilt sometime in the past. Either way you go will need a teardown and inspection. If Sparky V2.0 is anywhere near sentient, they should be able to test for bad diodes, shorted stator and rotor, bad bearings, and so on. If you go the parts alt route, you can probably come up with one good alternator between the two.

If the Iskra replacement from Darrin is your direction, they are somewhat pricy (last I saw was something close to $300.00 US at another site), but several advantages: easy hookup, increased available power, designed to be a drop-in replacement, and not least, all the pieces are brand new.
 
Fair enough Bill, I am reticent to spend too much as I have just been royally stung on the issue. I’ve got a friend having a hunt for me tomorrow so fingers crossed.

Auto electrician is a grumpy #@!t. I asked him to hold off repairing it and he told me he starts work at 5am. He'll put in in a box for me, customer service guaranteed!

Pretty sure I asked him what it would cost before he undertook the work....

Love to see what he wants to charge (excuse the pun) for efforts.

He did say the stator was cooked so wondering what would have caused that?

I must say I am losing faith in the auto electrical trade around here rapidly.

A tirade is stored in my soft mushy grey drive and am very ready to press play.
 
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forumnoreason said:
Fair enough Bill, I am reticent to spend too much as I have just been royally stung on the issue. I’ve got a friend having a hunt for me tomorrow so fingers crossed.

Auto electrician is a grumpy #@!t. I asked him to hold off repairing it and he told me he starts work at 5am. He'll put in in a box for me, customer service guaranteed!

Pretty sure I asked him what it would cost before he undertook the work....

Love to see what he wants to charge (excuse the pun) for efforts.

He did say the stator was cooked so wondering what would have caused that?

I must say I am losing faith in the auto electrical trade around here rapidly.

A tirade is stored in my soft mushy grey drive and am very ready to press play.
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I for one would like to see your rant. Lord knows you've earned the right.

Funny you say V2.0 is a grumpy so-and-so. That's my persona on some of the political websites I go to- Grumpycarguy.

The one way I can think the stator was cooked is, when it was being reassembled, not much in the way of care was used. Two or more of the segments were nicked, shorting them together. That is how the diodes were blown. A dead short to ground- a 30A diode isn't going to sustain that for long and the varnish on the windings is going to melt and self-immolate.

Sent from my LGLS755 using aussiefrogs mobile app
 
back on this again, a friend has sorted me with replacement Paris Rhone alternator. Haven’t had it tested though and put in car. Dash light still coming on and no charge.
Now just assuming reg and alt are actually working I tested the wire out of reg to dash light and got voltage. I also tested power into reg and it showed voltage to dash light. Should it? I thought the red sleeve wire to dash was separate. Now running the car and pushing the coil down to open the points is supposed to switch light off? doesn’t.
I’m going to test voltage from power in to reg (mauve sleeve) to dash light woth red sleeve from reg to dash disconnected and press coil down to see what effect that has but I think there is either something wrong with reg or wiring is arse up. Really confused about cause of problem but it must be pretty simple.
 
First, make sure the alternator is really working. With the engine running, connect the battery directly to the "EXC" terminal on the alternator. This will give 12V directly to the field windings. The battery voltage should jump to 13 or 14 volts and if you rev the engine a bit, 15 or more.

As for the wiring, with ignition on, there should be 12V on the "L" wire at the regulator. If you ground that wire the indicator light should go on. If you remove it from earth, the light should go out. With the ignition on, the "BOB" wire at the regulator should also have 12V. If you ground it you will get sparks and possibly overheat the ignition switch, so don't.

The remaining two wires at the regulator go to the "EXC" and half-rectified voltage terminals on the alternator and, if disconnected at both ends should be tested for continuity with an ohm meter. If all checks out, then you have a bad regulator.
 
thanks again John I think the alt and the reg may be cactus.
 
'morning Steve- sorry to see you are having a bad trot with the alternator. I guess the rest of your car's restoration must be just about complete now? Very frustrating with the alternator I bet.

Are you still trying to source a replacement alternator? I'm sure Denton (European Auto Care, Penrith NSW) would have some down there, though probably need to have checked out before instal. I'd be happy to collect something from him for you if that would help and then need to find a way to get it through the top end cyclones to you. Anyway, if you think you can source one down here, I'd be happy to manage a pick-up if that will help.

A similar issue seemed to develop with my DS23ie auto just recently too. After getting some other work done, I noticed the alternator warning light coming on when it shouldn't. Intermittently some days, consistently others. Battery was not going flat. Problem's been recently diagnosed as a diode issue and confirmed that the alternator is still charging well. Luckily, Denton has been able to put me onto a good auto electrician with lots of experience with these cars and a well organised workshop. A job for after Easter.

Let's know if I can be of any help with the parts search.

All the best
Ken



forumnoreason said:
thanks again John I think the alt and the reg may be cactus.
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Thankyou Ken but I think I'm ok for the alt as friend in Brisbane sent one over and I proved it worked this afternoon. I did discover I was mistaken in testing the bulb lead out from the reg, I was checking it on the yellow pin connector middle row which is the main feed and not the reg light, misread the dash diagram fom DSSMpassion site, my French is a bit shonky... it goes to the green pin connector and I discovered the wire that is there has nothing to do with what it should do, that is turn on/off battery light when alt charging. So I disconnected it and put another across temporarily, fired it up and while the regulator wouldn't play ball, by pushing down on the main reg coil got charge up to 15V on battery with some revving. Also pushing down manually on warning bulb coil turned bulb off and on. So the bloody loom is at fault on that situation and I have a cooked regulator. ( which I assume I caused one day by stupidly hooking the battery up back the front...) Waiting for matey in Brisbane to send another!

No idea yet what the other wire that went to green pin connector does yet, may be connected to rear window heater switch but yet to find out. Few more things to figure out with this loom yet.

anyone got a spare Ducellier 8374 or a Paris Rhone AYD212 they don't want/ need feel like throwing in the bin? : )

ps Yes Ken resto almost done this issue now is the one holding me up from visit to rego office. I replaced the seals on main accumulator regulator recently as I had leaks and that was pretty easy and no more leaks, plus I managed to take it out and put back in in no time at all, there is a technique to all hydraulic lines which calls for attaching lines first slack then tighten up after you put unit back on which makes the process 5 times easier I finally realised.
 
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This might help. I can't remember where I found it or I would give credit.

DS Instrument panel connections multi-pin plugs.jpg
 
For what it's worth.
On my 21, the regulator was... well... acting up.
I tried to "fix" it... screws, resistors, pranotherapy... you know... in the end, I fit a modern (Hella) one, and forgot the suffering.
I still get a bit of flickering at low revs, but that's the alternator, and it sort of goes with the turf ;);·)
Battery charges well (I have a volt-ammeter), so hey. Bungalow Bill.

On the later 21, it was acting even worse. I said haha, fit the modern one, it was acting like... Megan Fox on a bad day.
It wasn't the regulator, it was the alternator.
I fit a Citrotech one with built-in regulator. Some €250. It's... well, one less thing to worry about :)

:2cents:
 
Thanks John I was using this one, I think I need to check this loom I bought out properly so I know what is going where, bit frustrated that there might be things going on that aren't right.

B63F5B56-CD9C-4490-89FB-F2300DB06213.jpg
 
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