Coolant Question

[JohnW]

I know members are saying a picture is worth a thousand twirks so I am putting piccie of the replaced part. It is quite a large part, I was even surprised considering how newish it looked of course I cannot even see it popping the hood, so I can see remnants of dried caked on brownish coloured what used to be coolant. so the coolant is bluish green but really with such dense colour you could not tell. Exactly where it was leaking I have no idea probably where the seals are. I would have thought such a good condition looking pipe thingo you could have replaced the seals but then it was the entire organ pipe

View attachment 120257
View attachment 120258

so from this angle it kind of look reddish brown doesn't it?
View attachment 120259

then from this angle it looked bluish green
View attachment 120260

I'm not too happy with the non wiped over flowed crystals forming all over the bowl esp for fifteen hundred.

So if I were to get Pug Office involve how on earth do I do that? I mean the damaged part looked newish and my mileage is so low. I do not go to dealers for service I suppose if it had been dealers it would be twenty hundred.

You could start with the Peugeot Australia website, https://www.peugeot.com.au/ . Two things: at the bottom of the page there's a "contact us" tab and also when I went there one of these dialogue boxes opened up saying "Hi, my name is.... Can I help you?" and it has a space for the user to type a message and get a live answer. You could do worse than express disappointment and ask whom to contact to discuss getting some support from Peugeot under the circumstances. You know, 'reputation for reliabilty, always serviced by the book at an authorised place, low km, bought new etc etc'. You could add that you know the part concerned has history.....

 

[SLC206]

So I have no idea the outlet tank is leaking and I am shocked at the cost of it. esp since I am such a low kay driver too. Oh well, any opinions from members? I'll take a picture of the damaged part when I pick it up. It's a matter of wear and tear something about the seals of the outlet tank it was not as if I damaged it , just bad luck of wear and tear and this wear and tear came so early at 41 kay.

This is one of the "common things" that I mentioned in my post #20 - the outlet tank is the thermostat housing and has a very long history of failure on this engine. I would contact Peugeot Australia and enquire as to whether this is a warrantable part, given its history and your car's service history. That's plastic for you.

 

[Palo Verde]

OK I will attempt to do this given the lack of knowledge in this topic, hopefully I will be able to explain myself I did not kow this particular part has a long history of non serviceability issue, also like I said it does look pretty new to me when I saw the part as you can see the photo of course what shocked me was the price of it all, labour and part.
Do you think it's better to call them? Probably better to write as you suggested. Fifteen hundred up front is a lot of money for 41k

 

[JohnW]

OK I will attempt to do this given the lack of knowledge in this topic, hopefully I will be able to explain myself I did not kow this particular part has a long history of non serviceability issue, also like I said it does look pretty new to me when I saw the part as you can see the photo of course what shocked me was the price of it all, labour and part.
Do you think it's better to call them? Probably better to write as you suggested. Fifteen hundred up front is a lot of money for 41k

Personally, I'd start by writing, so you can check very carefully what you are saying right from the start. I'd write a draft, sleep on it, review it and then email. These are complex reinforced plastic components, quite sophisticated materials I reckon, and really should not fail. However, this sort of plastic pipe connection system has been used by PSA and no doubt others for many years in quite a few places and they don't have a perfect track record. The much simpler thermostat cover on the 306 series was a common failure, for example. We never had a failure on our Xantia or Citroen BX over quite a few years though. Others know far more than I do about this.

 

[Ikenna351]

I know members are saying a picture is worth a thousand twirks so I am putting piccie of the replaced part. It is quite a large part, I was even surprised considering how newish it looked of course I cannot even see it popping the hood, so I can see remnants of dried caked on brownish coloured what used to be coolant. so the coolant is bluish green but really with such dense colour you could not tell. Exactly where it was leaking I have no idea probably where the seals are. I would have thought such a good condition looking pipe thingo you could have replaced the seals but then it was the entire organ pipe

View attachment 120257
View attachment 120258

so from this angle it kind of look reddish brown doesn't it?
View attachment 120259

then from this angle it looked bluish green
View attachment 120260

I'm not too happy with the non wiped over flowed crystals forming all over the bowl esp for fifteen hundred.

So if I were to get Pug Office involve how on earth do I do that? I mean the damaged part looked newish and my mileage is so low. I do not go to dealers for service I suppose if it had been dealers it would be twenty hundred.

Your attached pictures didn't show any sign of leak or crack on the thermostat housing.

One of the good things about coolant is, if there is a leak on any part or component of engine cooling system, it will discolour the place/spot. If you didn't see such sign on the thermostat housing, you may have to check other cooling system components as well and rule them out.

Have you ruled out the water pump? If I were you, I would tell the mechanic to bring out the water and look for sign of leak or crack.

Don't replace the thermostat housing yet until you are very certain the leak is from there.

Ikenna351, Lion King - Monk.

 

[Palo Verde]

well it has already been replaced and money exchanged hands book stamped and invoiced generated GST paid I mean with my limited knowledge I really do not know what is what. Like I said the part looked really new and I did not see any signs of age even (fair enough it is only 41 k so really how on earth do I beg to differ? Also already they are saying it is leaking and the car is not safe for driving, what was I to do? drive it anyways and find another opinion while it continues to leak? (whose opinion? dealers' opinions/ heavens forbid) armchair critics always have imaginative scenerios that are rarely practical nor useful.

 

[philipjh]

I know members are saying a picture is worth a thousand twirks so I am putting piccie of the replaced part. It is quite a large part, I was even surprised considering how newish it looked of course I cannot even see it popping the hood, so I can see remnants of dried caked on brownish coloured what used to be coolant. so the coolant is bluish green but really with such dense colour you could not tell. Exactly where it was leaking I have no idea probably where the seals are. I would have thought such a good condition looking pipe thingo you could have replaced the seals but then it was the entire organ pipe

View attachment 120257
View attachment 120258

so from this angle it kind of look reddish brown doesn't it?
View attachment 120259

then from this angle it looked bluish green
View attachment 120260

I'm not too happy with the non wiped over flowed crystals forming all over the bowl esp for fifteen hundred.

So if I were to get Pug Office involve how on earth do I do that? I mean the damaged part looked newish and my mileage is so low. I do not go to dealers for service I suppose if it had been dealers it would be twenty hundred.

I would suggest the reddish brown colour is discolouration in the overflow tank which is a combination of ageing plastic and contamination.
The mostly bluish green colour is the actual colour of you coolant.

 

[Palo Verde]

also I forgot to say sometimes excessive telling the people who service your car have you done this have you done that well did you rule out this did you rule out that can be very counter productive if you are not some PhD in car repairs it's almost like telling people how to do their jobs. It may actually upset them. Unless you have a different kind of relationship with them. so yes it's all very difficult whether you keep quiet or you ask too much. There's no such thing as middle ground as one question leads to another and another and another, it's never-ending when it comes to speculation and suspicions. It is true there is always 50% or higher in suspicions when it comes to whatever the dealers do or say no matter what, they all have been tainted with the same ugly broomstick.

 

[Ikenna351]

well it has already been replaced and money exchanged hands book stamped and invoiced generated GST paid I mean with my limited knowledge I really do not know what is what. Like I said the part looked really new and I did not see any signs of age even (fair enough it is only 41 k so really how on earth do I beg to differ? Also already they are saying it is leaking and the car is not safe for driving, what was I to do? drive it anyways and find another opinion while it continues to leak? (whose opinion? dealers' opinions/ heavens forbid) armchair critics always have imaginative scenerios that are rarely practical nor useful.

I don't think you understand my questions and suggestions.

When you wanted to take pictures of the coolant thermostat housing, the dealer supposed to have pointed out to the spot on the housing/container where the coolant was leaking out from, so that you take picture of that particular spot too. That was why I said, if coolant was truly leaking from that container, wherever it's coming out from will be very pronounced, for it will be discoloured (sometimes like reddish colour). Even if it's leaking from the CTS (coolant temperature sensor) on that housing, it will still show. So that you will have peace of mind that the money for the replacement won't be in vain.

I understand auto workshops or dealership don't bother much with details of their diagnositic reports. But I also do diagnosis and repairs on other People's Peugeot vehicles and I would show and explain the culprits/faults to the owners when detected, without holding back. It's there vehicle and they have the right to know why a part should be replaced, even if I have to prove it to them.

I have diagnosed and replaced THP engine thermostat housing on some 508 and 308 for people. But none of them were as a result of leaky housing yet, instead, because of failed thermostat in those containers. Maybe, yours was actually leaking. Except the pictures didn't prove it (unless you didn't snap the side the leak/crack was).

Ikenna351, Lion King - Monk.

 

[kelpiebat]

I'm with Ikenna351 on this. Any dealer or mechanic who genuinely believes in acting in the car owner's best interests should be open and keen to prove the need for parts and/or work. Palo Verde's replaced part looks OK and would prior to removal have failed any reasonable pressure test were it faulty and the actual leak spot should have been able to be determined and/or known if many of them fail at the same weak point. Having said that there could be a situation of unusual and specific seals not being able to be readily purchased. By the way Palo Verde do you have any trees in your garden?

 

[Palo Verde]

I cannot remember specifically where they pointed out was the leak I just remember taking the photo and seeing the brown stuff and I did ask where was it leaking and I think it was pointed to me but then again what do i know? I would not have known to look for a worn spot where it leak as this is not my bread and butter I have no idea what it is that I am looking except I thought the part looked pretty newish to me I would not have known it was a faulty part despite it being faulty. It's like asking you to read and interprete legislation it is not something you woud know not having trained as a barrister. So likewise I did not know what I was looking for I took the picture as a reference and did not know which specific part I was to take the picture. And because there are so many people like myself no wonder car service is big business. The car is never parked underneath trees it is in underground parking with concrete all around. I do have trees in my backyard but the car is not parked there.

And yes lthough you may say that where it leak you would see a volcanic trail but I'm thinking if that was the case how was the car drivable for so many days leading to this? Obviously it is not one of those typhonic leaks it must be pretty microscopic for it to have gone un noticed and un detected for quite some time, like I said before when I discovered it was empty at the coolant plastic container I did not know if that was the first day or the 105th day. It has gone un noticed as the concrete floor I park my car did not have any trace at all. The coolant temperature gauge on dash did not indicate anythinng unusual, the only tell tale was my intuition that the loud fan came on. That was my only clue that lead me to look under the hood. I don't look under the hood every other day. I have no reason to. I am sure popping the hood and slamming it shut 45 times a month is not good either.
So since this appeared to be some microscopic leak that is why it may not show a volacanic trail in the part itself.

 

[robs]

You didn't pick a very good example contrasting grasping nasty mechanics against those generous, salt-of-the-earth barristers.

That you didn't see a leak where the car was parked is not a big deal. The cooling system comes under pressure when you're driving. A small crack might open up and let the water squirt out while you're driving along. There are two ways to find out. 1. open the bonnet and check levels. 2. come to a steaming, smoking halt on the road some day. Luckily, you went for #1. Just think how much #2 might have cost you!

You keep pointing out that you don't know anything about car mechanicals. Fair enough. But here, you're talking to a group of people who know quite a bit about such things. It's no great surprise there's a communications gap. Why not start by reading your car's owner's manual. I suspect it'll give you a hint as to how often you should lift the bonnet. It won't suggest 90 times per month, but I'd be surprised if it said to leave it closed between visits to the dealer.

I think you have a reasonable case requesting some sort of consideration towards your repair, but also understand that you have dodged a really expensive bullet.

Have fun,

Rob.

 

[JohnW]

Yes, I agree you've dodged a potentially expensive bullet! It doesn't take much going wrong to bump a service cost over $1000, so I doubt you've been skinned.

I would suggest you keep a super-careful eye on the coolant level in the translucent reservoir btw, weekly perhaps, just to be sure the right thing has been done and you don't have a different leak or indeed another leak.

If you don't have the faulty part yourself, I'd suggest getting hold of it as part of the softly softly approach to Peugeot. More sorrow than anger is more likely to work IMHO but you do need hard evidence of what failed.

Best wishes with it.

 

[kelpiebat]

Happy Anzac Day Palo Verde, With the information from you being clear that the considerable quantity of top up water has mixed with the original coolant and that the level is not dropping quickly it becomes obvious that the leak was/is a slow one and was therefore probably only one that happened as a result of the engine becoming warm whilst in use. What usually happens with slow rate leaks on a warm/hot engine is that the water component turns to steam which does not, of course, drip and the colouring of the coolant dries and leaves a detectable stain as evidence of where the leak is.
It is of no significance as to whether your car is parked under a tree as far as the coolant leak is concerned. My comment about having any trees was perhaps a bit cryptic in that I was referring to the 'user name' chosen by you. I'd rather like to see if I could grow one.!! cheers

 

[Palo Verde]

Omg I don't know what I did but hundreds of words just got deleted accidentally, I'll have to write this again

 

[Armidillo]

I feel your pain - it has happened to most of us! Can I suggest, if planning a long post, type it up in a word processor first (MS Word or equivalent) that has undo functions etc., (which allow recovery from disaster).

Then cut and paste into Aussie Frogs. If it mucks up, you can do it again (and again).

Cheers

Alec

 

[Palo Verde]

Sydney is large. What corner are you at so we can suggest a workshop? There are good places North, West and South.

Another option is http://revivemylion.com/Home.php who can come to you.

Thanks Armidillo

meanwhile I think it went like this in response to seasink, I must say the prices looked reasonable compared to what I paid this time. Oh well, this time with the coolant issue, oddly they seemed to even have the part but as members say this is a known issue so maybe that's why this part was stocked. I am gathering my thoughts to write to HQ I don't have the part with me anymore ( well I never really took the part with me at all, nor was it offered ). Just the photo. But then if this is already a known issue then there really isn't that much to talk about.

I was wondering where do you find the engine code without looking at the engine can you find it in any paperwork? The other thing is touch up paint, where can u get it inexpensively?

 

[SLC206]

I was wondering where do you find the engine code without looking at the engine can you find it in any paperwork? The other thing is touch up paint, where can u get it inexpensively?

The engine code is in the VIN. Being (I think) the VTi engine it will most likely be 5FS or something very similar.

 

[Armidillo]

...

I was wondering where do you find the engine code without looking at the engine can you find it in any paperwork? The other thing is touch up paint, where can u get it inexpensively?

Palo have you looked at your registration certificate/renewal notice? In NSW it has both the engine number and the VIN (vehicle identification number) printed on it, so you don't need to look at the car .

In fact, the only people that seem to want to know the engine number are the registration authorities - every one else (such as dealers, spare parts suppliers etc.) are only interested in the VIN (which as Simon says, contains a 3 letter code that identifies the engine - starts at position 6 in the VIN).

It is also possible to look up the paint colour using the VIN.

Cheers

Alec

 

[seasink]

As well as in the rego papers the VIN is printed in a window under the windscreen as viewed from outside. The engine code is digits 6-7-8 of the VIN.