Call Ateco direct and ask for the name of the Manager of Customer Service. Then address all corespondence to him/her directly.
C3 failed Injector and running on 3 cylinders.
- Thread starter danielsydney
- Start date
Daniel,
Clear out your PM inbox and I'll send you the number!! :nownow:
:trouslap:
Alan S
Clear out your PM inbox and I'll send you the number!! :nownow:
:trouslap: Alan S
I did that and they replied with that last quote....
GTI124 said:
Yep, or better still see if you can set up a meeting with them. But don't get bogged down in discussions about fuel, design faults, water drips, ra ra ra... That's just playing in to their hands and they could tell you anything.
Simply ask them you want to be reimbursed for all this, plain and simple, or you will take it further. That's all. Then walk out of there.
Daniel there's one very very cool, utterly utterly French 2CV6 Beachcomber in the for sale section that has your name on it. Time to trade up mate.
Bosch injectors have also got a very fine filter in the top of the unit, so I can't see how particles in the fuel could have done this. Other contaminates would only have an effect over a long time. Definitely sounds fishy...
Stuey
Stuey
I think the common opinion here, is that the importer is trying to blind you with bullshit. The thing about bullshit, is as we know it leaves a nasty smell, so you stick to your guns Daniel! At the end of the day, if all else fails, send an e-mail to Citroën 
themselves. I'm sure they would be very interested to know how their company is being represented in Australia. john s
themselves. I'm sure they would be very interested to know how their company is being represented in Australia. john s
I agree with DC....I d be really pissed of at this stage....and you are right, its not the money....The principle....
I d be seriously considering taking the car to an injection specialist....Have all injectors flow tested....Yes it would cost you more but what the hell it might be worth it in the future (it is out of warranty)...This would allow you to supply an independant report on fuel injector condition and the various flow rates...you might even be able to determine if an injector was indeed replaced....I d make sure that injectors are identified ie. same production batch (are they numbered?)
A flow test would definitely show up a new injector......
I still believe they ve simply ripped you off, charged you for something that wasn t even necessary...it was probably just a loose connection on one of the cyclinders....
A current affair did a test like this once (simply disconnected a fuel injector ) and while a couple of service centres simply reconnected and didn t charge most others identified (made up) other faults....it was on an audi if I remeber correctly and one dealer quoted a repair bill that was close to a thousand dollars.....
What else can I say...this situation is really disappointing and it should not have come to this.....might be time to start naming names or at least pointing them our way....Are they aware of the consequences this might have...Do they care.....????
I ceartinly wouldn t give up on it....no matter what.....
cheers
dino
I d be seriously considering taking the car to an injection specialist....Have all injectors flow tested....Yes it would cost you more but what the hell it might be worth it in the future (it is out of warranty)...This would allow you to supply an independant report on fuel injector condition and the various flow rates...you might even be able to determine if an injector was indeed replaced....I d make sure that injectors are identified ie. same production batch (are they numbered?)
A flow test would definitely show up a new injector......
I still believe they ve simply ripped you off, charged you for something that wasn t even necessary...it was probably just a loose connection on one of the cyclinders....
A current affair did a test like this once (simply disconnected a fuel injector ) and while a couple of service centres simply reconnected and didn t charge most others identified (made up) other faults....it was on an audi if I remeber correctly and one dealer quoted a repair bill that was close to a thousand dollars.....
What else can I say...this situation is really disappointing and it should not have come to this.....might be time to start naming names or at least pointing them our way....Are they aware of the consequences this might have...Do they care.....????
I ceartinly wouldn t give up on it....no matter what.....
cheers
dino
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Daniel,
I think what is killing your case is that the dealer isn't backing you. With my C5 I have had a number of things done under warranty that, strictly speaking, were not warranty claims. The difference was that the repairer went in to bat on my behalf.
Barry.
I think what is killing your case is that the dealer isn't backing you. With my C5 I have had a number of things done under warranty that, strictly speaking, were not warranty claims. The difference was that the repairer went in to bat on my behalf.
Barry.
Ah, it's heartening to see that innuendo and wild speculation are alive and well on AF
Looking forward to some boring old facts coming to light.
Looking forward to some boring old facts coming to light.
SLC206 said:Ah, it's heartening to see that innuendo and wild speculation are alive and well on AF
Looking forward to some boring old facts coming to light.
pphhff yeah whatever
OK, here are some facts, extended from my last post, for you. There was no wild speculation on my part.SLC206 said:Ah, it's heartening to see that innuendo and wild speculation are alive and well on AF
Daniel has been told that the problem was caused by contaminated fuel.
The ultra fine mesh filter on the top of the injector is designed such that whatever fits through the mesh also fits through the 0.05mm (or so) gap between the needle valve and its seat. So the only contaminates that should affect injector operation are fuel soluble ones, not solids (at least, until the mesh is blocked). The soluble contaminates, however, would only cause a problem over many miles where they might build up in the gap between the needle and the orifice due to the heat on the tip - which can, in any case, be solved by ultrasonic cleaning. Some modern Bosch injectors also have a chimney that reduces tip temperatures, which reduces this effect. In any case, contaminated injectors is a reversible situation, without replacement.
The injector, which is a small solenoid moving a 'needle' according to the current passed to it by the ECU, consists of a coil of fine wire around the needle. This magnetically lifts the needle off of its seat to allow fuel to spray. The coil/electrical system is completely isolated from the fuel. A spring returns the needle to its seat. So, if a solid forms on the seat, it doesn't cause the coil to over load because it's only acting against spring pressure, not the solenoid action, and there is no switching off of current according to needle position. They are a simple device, which is why they are so reliable.
So, YOU tell me - how would contamination require replacement of the injector?
Stuey
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SLC206 said:Ah, it's heartening to see that innuendo and wild speculation are alive and well on AF
Looking forward to some boring old facts coming to light.
Stuey said:
Stuey,
He may have been talking about the Dealers diagnosis!!
:crazy: :crazy: :roflmao: Alan S
Stuey said:
I have no idea - but my point was you've all decided what was wrong with it anyway - despite none of you seeing the injector or having any other sort of involvement in the actual car. Oh wait - the dealer must have deliberately thrown it away so no one could prove them wrong!
Some people here are convinced that the injector may have been dirty, but with a bit of cleaning it would be brand new again - unfortunately that doesn't always happen. I agree that a petrol injector completely failing is an unusual occurrence, but that doesn't preclude it from being what actually happened.
SLC206 said:
i think it might be an idea that we wait and see how things turn out in the end and that might just save people getting their knickers in a twist
Daniel i am sure will find out exactly what he can do in regards to all this and will lets us know in due course
good luck Daniel
My experience dealing with Ateco was unsatisfactory.
I've posted briefly about my dealings before regarding main bearings in the gearbox of my first Berlingo van failing before 80,000k's.
Being a commercial vehicle, it was under 2 year warranty conditions.
The problem first arose 8 months out of warranty.
If it was something minor I would have taken it on the chin, but a gearbox is a major component, & should, especially a manual, last 2 engines you'd expect, certainately more than 76k's.
I went the posting snail mail letters (not registered), faxes, 20 - 30 phones calls - myself & wife over 4 - 5 months. They rarely called back when they said they would.
In summary, the claim was unsuccessful as the vehicle was out of warranty.
Great!
As a sort of pseudo ambassador of your make, Citroen Australia, I am ashamed you treat your customers in this way.
My protest has been in the quiet form predominantly, ie. if anyone asks what my vehicle is like, I tell them the truth.
Also note:
This topic has been viewed 1278 times
I've posted briefly about my dealings before regarding main bearings in the gearbox of my first Berlingo van failing before 80,000k's.
Being a commercial vehicle, it was under 2 year warranty conditions.
The problem first arose 8 months out of warranty.
If it was something minor I would have taken it on the chin, but a gearbox is a major component, & should, especially a manual, last 2 engines you'd expect, certainately more than 76k's.
I went the posting snail mail letters (not registered), faxes, 20 - 30 phones calls - myself & wife over 4 - 5 months. They rarely called back when they said they would.
In summary, the claim was unsuccessful as the vehicle was out of warranty.
Great!
As a sort of pseudo ambassador of your make, Citroen Australia, I am ashamed you treat your customers in this way.
My protest has been in the quiet form predominantly, ie. if anyone asks what my vehicle is like, I tell them the truth.
Also note:
This topic has been viewed 1278 times
gibgib said:
How dumb of the Sydney dealer, Ateco and who knows perhaps Citroen themselves, in the way they treat not only existing customers but also countless potential 'new' customers.
The issue of the actual fault in Daniels case is mute, the fact that he purchased the vehicle new and has had it maintained by the same dealer is surely sufficient for the dealer to have gone into bat for him, plain good business sense. For the small cost in Daniel's case ($450.00ish), given the car was just two weeks out of warranty, common sense would suggest the parts and labour should be borne by Citroen and retrievable by the Dealer if they could be bothered to pursue.
The bad publicity and bad taste potentially have cost thousands more, dumb, dumb, and dumber. What’s to say that Daniel was not about to trade up to a new C4.
As an example of good business practice,
I recently had my BX serviced by Euroserve here in Brisbane, part of the work air-con re-gas was outsourced (this developed into a compressor overhaul). I received a call to let me know that whilst moving the car the cam belt had snapped. Belt had been changed 20k prior, so last thing I was expecting to hear. Of course I had no recourse, I have the invoice from previous owner showing in detail the date/ speedo reading/ and Sydney dealer who changed the belt, but knew there would be no point in pursuing.
The good news is that the figure I had been quoted for the air-con work had been almost halved and the work performed by Euroserve for the resulting head rebuild was pretty much at cost. Both business’s involved, took it upon themselves, to do the right thing in their eyes by a long standing loyal customer.
Of course the Aussiefrog sticker on the car no doubt helps in these situations (joking), but you’re right gibgib, this site now has a significant audience (this thread has been viewed 1278 times), the various importers/ dealers/ and service agents for French cars in Australia would be wise to check in here from time to time and get a feeling for how they are performing in the eyes of their customers. We give praise when it's due....
P.S. I own and run a small business myself, this morning Saturday I made a personal delivery to a long standing customer, whilst with the customer I spent about an hour helping with a comptuter problem over a cup of coffee and a chat... for me great PR, I've been doing business with this client for over ten years. I take the view that a customer is worth more than their last purchase, but should be measured by their potential over the next 5 years. Sometimes it's better to take a short term loss for the long term gains.
Cheers
Chris
Indeed...!!SLC206 said:
No; I've decided what WASN'T wrong with it. There's a subtle but significant difference.
By implying that Daniel used contaminated fuel, it shifts the responsibility onto Daniel, or the fuel supplier. However, if they said that the injector solenoid coil burnt out, it is solely a manufacturing fault. One is 'more warrantable' than the other.
I NEVER suggested that it's impossible for an injector to fail at such a short mileage. It is highly unlikely to be from fuel contamination, though.
Stuey
Hi all. I totally agree with GibGib.I'm on to my 2nd Berlingo.I spent vast amounts of money trying to track down an intermittent driveability problem on the 1st one.No Citroen dealer I took it to had a clue how to fix it.All they did was replace sensors in the blind hope they would fix it.Eventually took it to a fuel injection specialist who found it had a leaking injector.Could not buy an injector in this country from anyone (Citroen ,Bosch)Gave up on the car in the end.Thinking I just had a one off I traded on a Berlingo 2.Guess what?New Berlingo has had injector/driveability problems from day one.Am currently waiting to hear back from Citroen about having an injector mod performed.Keep you informed. Wal
I for one am rethinking my upcoming enquiries for lease terms on cars, I had been planning to lease a C5 Hdi Wagon but after reading this thread .....
Guys,
Unfortunately, Citroen does not have a good track record of supporting customers once warranty runs out. I had a pinion bearing go in the gearbox of my 1975 G special two weeks after the 6 month warranty ran out. (That was after I'd had the engine rebuilt during warranty due to an oil leak through a cracked crankcase.) I was told that there was no chance of support from Citroen on that one.
And what about the total lack of support for the series 2 CX turbo diesels that had shoddy Indian metal in the engine block casting which allowed coolant to corrode through into the bore after about 2 years. Absolutely no support from Citroen - total lack of customer service attitude into the late 1980s as well.
At least the industry norms have forced them to extend their warranties to 3 years these days. I would just cop it on the chin and not get to vexed about it and keep on enjoying the car. If you keep on with this, it will most likely affect your respect for the car and marque. Experience tells me that most of them are OK and hopefully this is the only premature failure you will suffer.
Ken W :adrink:
Unfortunately, Citroen does not have a good track record of supporting customers once warranty runs out. I had a pinion bearing go in the gearbox of my 1975 G special two weeks after the 6 month warranty ran out. (That was after I'd had the engine rebuilt during warranty due to an oil leak through a cracked crankcase.) I was told that there was no chance of support from Citroen on that one.
And what about the total lack of support for the series 2 CX turbo diesels that had shoddy Indian metal in the engine block casting which allowed coolant to corrode through into the bore after about 2 years. Absolutely no support from Citroen - total lack of customer service attitude into the late 1980s as well.
At least the industry norms have forced them to extend their warranties to 3 years these days. I would just cop it on the chin and not get to vexed about it and keep on enjoying the car. If you keep on with this, it will most likely affect your respect for the car and marque. Experience tells me that most of them are OK and hopefully this is the only premature failure you will suffer.
Ken W :adrink: