205 Si 1.6L Auto Rescue

[GRAHAM WALLIS]

That injection system works extremely well better than the L Jetronic on the early GTi. You do need to set the timing to stock, most have been retarded to run on 91 octane. Don't forget I have those new 1.9 pistons, 8 valve engines don't like compression above 10 to 1. Can also supply crankshaft and I think rods.

 

[GRAHAM WALLIS]

Megasquirt 3 much better than Megasquirt 2, very stable.

 

[GRAHAM WALLIS]

That injection system works extremely well better than the L Jetronic on the early GTi. You do need to set the timing to stock, most have been retarded to run on 91 octane. Don't forget I have those new 1.9 pistons, 8 valve engines don't like compression above 10 to 1. Can also supply crankshaft and I think rods.

Mz system is full digital, L Jetronic is analogue and even uses a discrete distributor which usually has a non working vacuum pod.
65 kw out of 1.6 compared with 75 kw out of 1.9.

 

[Lincolne]

Day 10 - Here comes the rain ...

Well the rain put paid to chasing the wiring for the temperature sensors so I switched my attention to the interior.

The dash and console have seen a fair bit of sun over the years, and much the plastic is getting brittle. The lower console surround around the stereo, etc. had come loose. Someone had broken the two screw holes in the middle. Parts of one were still there (held in by the screw) while the other was mostly missing, with only a large piece left behind and a very non-peugeot looking machine screw. The console behind the panel was sound and the screw clips were still in place.

Both the mounts in their current condition glued in nicely (thank you 5 minute Araldite) but the missing section needed something better. I found a product at my local Mitre 10 (Selleys 'KNEADit') which is a two part polymer compound that you knead into a putty similar to 'BluTack' and both adheres to clean surfaces and sets hard.

(excuse the leg in frame - but it's nice to have a car you can actually stretch out in)

I filled the larger hole and used some more 'KNEADit' to build up support around the broken bits. I drilled a hole for the screw, and on the other site put a metal washer to protect the plastic. It's not pretty, but it won't be visible when everything is reassembled.

A quick test fit found another crack, and I epoxied that back together. Given that many modern cars use glue as a key structural element I don't feel too bad about gluing bits of the Pug back together, and it's money I can spend on better things like suspension and the engine.

The ashtray is going to be a challenge. It hinges on small plastic tabs (one broken and missing) and the latch doesn't work. I should be able to fix it with a bit of plastic, and use one of those super string magnets as a replacement for the catch. It also needs a cigarette lighter (possibly an optional item) as everything uses them as a power source and the one in the dash was the only one ever available.

The clock needs a new lightbulb. Out of curiosity I dismantled the clock module - not much inside except for the display, a single IC and a few passives. The module came apart easily - the lack of direct sunlight has preserved the plastic. I'll probably install a LED instead (cheaper than a bulb) and unlikely to ever fail.

Before I replace the surround I'll replace the stereo. The current one has no Bluetooth and mentions iPod on the front, andthewse days a Bluetooth unit with hands free can be found for under $150. I don't want to tempt fate by installing and removing the plastic as it's sure to crack again. I may also install a couple of small brackets further up the console to provide additional support and take the strain off the repaired mounting points.

Research - Suspension

I contacted Bilstein to find out what the correct part numbers (and prices) were for a set of Bilstein B6's. The current suspension is failing (one shock leaking). Bilstein advise the they are V36 0545 / V36 0546 , however no longer stocked but may be sourced from overseas. Quoted $2,110 for a complete set. Ebay have some listed out of Germany for $1,900 inc freight.

Thinking about Eibach for springs - they seem to be a package set referred to in several places, and will certainly be better than what I have and should last a few years - this isn't going to be a track racer.

Interested in feedback on this. Manufacturers seem to group suspension into 'GTI' and 'non-GTI' but I'm not completely clear on the reason behind this. From looking through the Haynes workshop manual, the only difference seems to be the spring height - vehicles with an XU5J engine get 344mm springs, while the other get taller (360.7 or 492.0mm). As I'm most likely going to get the existing engine rebuilt as a 1.9L (i.e a GTI on the cheap) can anyone see any problem with putting 'GTI style' springs in now? I'm assuming any height difference will be dealt with by installing 'GTI style' shock absorbers and I can deal with the front sway bar and link arms a bit later.

Research - Engine & Transmission

As mentioned earlier, I'm looking very hard at keeping the existing engine (with its numbers) and stroking it to 1.9 litres and converting it to a manual. I like Graham's suggestion re the DKZ pistons and MI16 crankshaft, so I need to get a shopping list together for the rest of the parts needed. Currently this looks to be:

• GTI camshaft
• New sump (or possibly just a spacer)
• pistons
• Oil cooler
• Inlet manifold, fuel injection/carbs & ECU
• Rebuild kit (rings, bearings, and so on).

Engine mounts would be timely. Also a previous service flagged a loose end on the steering rack, so either a repair/rebuild to possibly delete the power steering (along with the AC to reduce weight static load).

Regarding transmission, the Haynes workshop manual lists the GTI as having either a BE1/5 or BE3/5 so I would just assume the latter. Opinions appreciated.

Robbing the dead

There is a listing on Gumtree for a wrecker an hour or so away who has a 405 (no further details provided yet). I'm probably going to give him a call to see what he may have. Any suggestions regarding key pieces (rear beam ?) to see, and possibly reasonable prices?

Anyway, thanks everyone for reading and your comments. You've given me much to think about (in a good way)

Sean

 

[Lincolne]

Megasquirt 3 much better than Megasquirt 2, very stable.

Thanks Graham. Are they difficult to buy in Australia ? You've just given me some more bedtime reading

 

[GRAHAM WALLIS]

Engine and gearbox are all that are usable from the 405. See if you can get some Record dampers. You probably have LIPs if yours are leaking.

 

[Pug_405_Mi16]

Good Evening,

Here are a couple of pictures of your car around 7 years ago when I saved it from being crushed! I put the wheels on it as I had them from another SI wreck and I think I changed the hubs on it. I had grand plans for putting it back on the road but passed it on to someone else!

I've got a heap of odds and sods from both 205 and 405 here if I can be of any help!

Cheers
Ben

 

[Lincolne]

Good Evening,

Here are a couple of pictures of your car around 7 years ago when I saved it from being crushed! I put the wheels on it as I had them from another SI wreck and I think I changed the hubs on it. I had grand plans for putting it back on the road but passed it on to someone else!

I've got a heap of odds and sods from both 205 and 405 here if I can be of any help!

Cheers
Ben

Hi Ben,

We should catch up and talk. I must say it looks prettier in your photos than in real life. Keen to find out what you may have that I can use

 

[schlitzaugen]

You don't want rear disc brakes, keep yours, they are more than adequate for the job. Discs add much complexity for no benefit in functionality and a crappier handbrake.

Don't delete the P/S. Your car has a short rack and you'll feel it. Even if you get a "long" rack from an early non-PS GTI you will feel it at low speeds in tight parking lots.

Get the engine and g'box out of that 405, it will be handy to have later.

 

[Richard W]

It's rare that I agree with Schitzlaugen (and it would seem that PeterT is referring to me when he says don't listen to people who don't know what they talk about), but I agree that you don't want to delete the power steering. 205 power steer is great and the manual steering is a pain around town.

I have a set of Eibach front springs here that you would be welcome to if you have a mate who could collect them for you Kensington in Sydney. The lowered stance looks fantastic with them fitted - you can see photos of the car with them fitted in my GTi6 conversion build thread - but I pulled them out of my car because they were too harsh. The car would really 'crash' on big bumps and my wife refused to go in the car with me (maybe that's not a bad thing?). Cam85 set me up with some reset Xantia VTS springs in the front which I prefer. Maybe I am going soft...

I also have a lower console surround that I will be pulling out of my car shortly that you would be welcome to. I've attached a photo below. The top left mounting tab is cracked (as they all do) but otherwise is good. I am fortunate enough to have been given a NOS surround that I will put in mine. You would need to experiment with maybe folding up some thin sheet aluminium sheet or something else to rebuild/reinforce that tab as it takes a lot of stress, but it may still be a better start point than what you've got.

 

[PeterT]

It's rare that I agree with Schitzlaugen (and it would seem that PeterT is referring to me when he says don't listen to people who don't know what they talk about), but I agree that you don't want to delete the power steering. 205 power steer is great and the manual steering is a pain around town.

No! It wasn't you. I meant Shulzwagen.

Definitely keep the PAS. It's the best of any 205 and without any assistance is very difficult maneuver around parking spots. You could change it to electric and retain the same rack but that's another whole story.

 

[flock]

You don't want rear disc brakes, keep yours, they are more than adequate for the job. Discs add much complexity for no benefit in functionality and a crappier handbrake.

I disagree. Disc brakes are much easier to maintain and adjust. It has improved the feel of the brakes immensely and they don't lock up as easily when you accidentally stab them coming in too hot on a blind corner. Handbrake is arguably worse yes. My mates 306 slowly crashed into a tree on my lawn once from his handbrake failing to hold. If the drums are in good order it's probably not worth replacing them considering the scarcity of conversion parts these days.

 

[schlitzaugen]

With a non-PS rack the car is okay in tight maneuvering and in normal driving there is no difference. I drive mine daily so maybe I am used to it. Trick is to find a non-PS rack.

As for the plastics, I have replaced pretty much all of them with non cracked s/h and even new ones and for a little while I had a perfect complete dash with everything working and looking nice. But then guess what? Everything started cracking again and now they're all cracked probably worse than before. Not worth the bother and expenditure in my experience unless you find a way to reinforce them. I would try steel sheet, but even then I am sure you're just shifting the weak point elsewhere and they'll crack again especially the little tabs and hinges where you'd have to have some really schmick technique to hide strips of steel behind the tiny little plastics. My car is slowly going back to the way it looked when I got it but now my philosophy is if it works without it, it doesn't need it so anything that comes off, stays off. Is till have some good spares but can't be bothered. Maybe someone will one day make some carbon fiber molds.

 

[PeterT]

With a non-PS rack the car is okay in tight maneuvering and in normal driving there is no difference. I drive mine daily so maybe I am used to it. Trick is to find a non-PS rack.

I'm talking about using the Si rack without power assistance. At 2.7:1, it's the most direct of all the 205 racks. Thus very heavy without assistance. The GTi PAS rack is 3.2:1 and the non-PAS rack is 3.9:1. So yes, the non-PAS rack is easy enough to turn when parking but incredibly vague compared to the Si rack at speed.

Only the early VTS rack at 2.4:1 is more desirable than an Si rack.

 

[schlitzaugen]

Your experience doesn't match mine about the non-PS rack. Mine has no vagueness at all at any speed, but at parking speeds is a bit hard to turn lock to lock. Maybe the rack you've experienced was worn.

Yes, a higher ratio may seem more direct but it also takes away the fine lock adjustments needed on the fly.

I have an entire PS setup right here off a Si in very good shape, but I don't think the effort of installing it is worth the trouble. It does also clutter the engine bay a bit. Maybe one day.

 

[Matthew]

The top left mounting tab is cracked (as they all do) but otherwise is good.

Rishard, let me introduce you to superglue and sodium bicarb. It will glue that tab forever.

 

[Lincolne]

Sorry guys - I didn't want to start a fight. I'll keep the Si power steering (just need to get the rack repaired). I've done a fair bit of driving in a GTI without power steering - it's definitely heavy when parking but not prohibitively so. If I need to delete the air conditioning at least the climate in Tassie doesn't make it essential.

As mentioned before, the brakes are currently a bit 'vague'. Something happens, but not what I want and when. I've checked the front discs - rotor is fine with a worst case of 0.34 of the 1.5mm of surface used and the pads have plenty to go. Brake fluid at the front had dropped a bit (no warnings but I added 1cm to the front reservoir to come up to level) so they may just need bleeding to sort them out. Service receipts indicate that the rotors have been replaced at least once, but no mention of the rear brakes.

I haven't popped the drums off the back to check yet.

I remember the GTI handbrake - definitely not one of the finest aspects of the car and I expect adjusting it was a standing item on all scheduled services.

Re plastics - yes, I'm beginning to see this as a battle somewhere on the horizon (I found more broken bits today). This car is going to be a road vehicle (not a track car) and I'd like to keep as much of the 'Pug character as possible (just enough of a pickup to rule out the 'Mums Taxi' look). A steel dash (or part thereof) would definitely fix the problem once and for all, but aesthetics would be a bit of a challenge and I lack talent in that area.

Sean

 

[Lincolne]

Day 11 - Off in a Dash

Today was a continuation of yesterday. I've finished patching the top cover - there was a three way fracture that I needed to fix with Araldite and a bit of fiberglass mat to keep it rigid but it looks and feels solid now

The small top box in the dash has a rubber gromit - looks like a previous owner had a gauge or similar and used the gromit to neatly plug the hole.

While the dash is in pieces I'm looking at another fault listed on the last service receipt

"The horn is not working and suspect the switch on the horn pad. Would require an auto electrician to diagnose correctly"

I've tested every single fuse I can find and they are all OK. The Horn fuse should be 25A, but someone has installed a 30A which isn't smart and from looking through the Haynes workshop manual the 205 does not use a horn relay but switches 12V directly form the horn 'button' on the steering column.

I do however have a theory ...

Alarm, Alarm ...

There was a loose wire dangling out of the lower storage bin next to the drivers right knee. It 'led' up to a LED mounted in the dash, so it would appear that a previous owner had a car alarm installed that was later removed. One of the wires just ended in mid air connected to nothing, while the other trailed off via the centre console (changing colour) and exited via the firewall into the engine bay. That end was just a bunch of frayed wires, so it looks like whatever was there was torn away.

You will note that someone had previously wrapped the wires with gaffer tape after twisting the ends together, and decided to change colours from red to black.

There was another pair of wires wrapped in electrical tape protruding from the instrument pod on the steering column. I pulled the plastics apart (not the first person here - it was held together with black silicon, and include an old rubber band and a ring pull for luck). According to the Workshop manual the wires were connected to the left and right indicator circuits, which makes sense if the alarm needed to flash the blinkers. I removed and re-insulated the wires to return it to match the manual.

I also found the ECU screwed in its correct place up under the dash. Interestingly someone has tapped into part of the ECU loom (quite heavy gauge wire so possibly power) and the cables were wrapped in electrical tape and routed through the firewall into the engine bay. They terminate on a relay near the fusebox by the bonnet hinge (definitely not original) so possibly the alarm was able to kill ignition or the entire car as well.

So following Occam's razor my working hypothesis is that there is either an in-line relay to the horn that has failed or damaged wiring that has deactivated the horn. I've got the car up on ramps at present so I'll hopefully get this sorted tomorrow.

Wheels, Tyres & Suspension

I rotated the tyres today to put the best tread at the front. Not completely happy with this as they are dated 2008 so well beyond manufacture recommended lifespan so it looks like I need four new tyres and better rims to match.

Looking at the fantastic stiff on the '205.si' site I think a set of 15" rims would do the trick. There are some great looking pugs with these in pictures on the 'net so will probably do that.

The suspension is definitely getting old. The front looks and feels fine at present (Record Maxigaz dampers) but the rear are unknown - no markings visible.

I'm guessing these are the originals.

Keys

Well surprise - in Hobart getting keys for a Peugeot is not as simple as a Holden. I currently have just one key, so a couple of extras would be a smart thing to do.

The young lady at Jacksons Locksmiths was very helpful. She wasn't 100% sure what blank to use, so she cut me a key for free to take home and try. Turns out it works perfectly, so I'll go back for the second and pay for them both. It's nice together such good service these days.

Thanks guys for all your help and suggestions on this.

Sean

 

[PeterT]

Being an Si, you can fit any 206 or 306 brake package to the front. The most common is 266mm Bosch or Lucas. The 266mm rotor is the cheapest of all, as it's fitted to so many PSA cars.

The rear brakes do very little in a 205, other than give you a high, firm pedal when adjusted properly.

Fit some 266mm brakes, matching 22mm master cylinder along with braided hoses and your brakes will be fantastic.

 

[GRAHAM WALLIS]

Your experience doesn't match mine about the non-PS rack. Mine has no vagueness at all at any speed, but at parking speeds is a bit hard to turn lock to lock. Maybe the rack you've experienced was worn.

Yes, a higher ratio may seem more direct but it also takes away the fine lock adjustments needed on the fly.

I have an entire PS setup right here off a Si in very good shape, but I don't think the effort of installing it is worth the trouble. It does also clutter the engine bay a bit. Maybe one day.

I feel unsafe driving a 205 without power steering, I feel that if the tail lets go I wouldn't have enough control to bring it back. Maybe this is why people talk about the unruly behaviour of these cars on the limit. I've never had that problem with PAS cars, 205s to me are very docile in the handling, better than the 405 which lets go in a rush.