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1998 XM V6 24V Exclusive:

geofwct

New member
Great news Geoff! Would be great to hear a bit more about your car - how long you've owned it, how far you've driven it, what still needs fixing etc...

For example - have you replaced those pesky bushes either end of the power steering ram?
-
Edit - have just seen your "For sale" ad - I guess that makes it even more interesting to know a bit more history. Is this car that you have just fixed the one that you are selling? I notice that this thread refers to "1998 XM V6...", while in the ad you have specified "2000 XM..."

Cheers

Alec
Alec,
It's the year 2000 car I am selling.
I need to remove the engine from the year 1998 car to deal with the oil leaks. The oil has to be coming from the camshaft seals or crankshaft seal (unlikely). Additionally, the timing belt has not been changed (at least not in the past 6.5 years of my ownership) so that will be done too. This car has done about 95,000km and I am likely to put it up for sale on completion of the work.
Geoffrey
 

Armidillo

1000+ Posts
Thanks Geoffrey. Could you perhaps post a little more information in the "For Sale" ad?

There must be some good points worth highlighting (apart from it being one of the last RHD cars off the production line), and perhaps you could elaborate on some of the issues that "need work"?
 

Motorgnome

Member
Don't the cam carrier boxes leak on the ES9 engine as well?..I have heard that that is the case..There's even a You tube Video of resealing them.
 

Armidillo

1000+ Posts
Don't the cam carrier boxes leak on the ES9 engine as well?..I have heard that that is the case..There's even a You tube Video of resealing them.
Does a duck swim? Is the Pope Catholic? Both my ES9J4 engines have needed cam boxes and covers resealed.

I note that Geoffrey only mentions re-sealing cam covers - perhaps you are right and he should go a bit deeper!
 

wonkipop

Member
Hmmm...I've had the sump pan off 3 times as well. I've done the camshaft covers 3 or 4 times. I have a heavy leak from behind the plastic backing of the timing belt/camshaft drives, the plastic extending right down to the front crankshaft seal area. I wonder if that is leaking. I am now considering lifting the engine out of the car to fix these persistent leaks.
yep - they are bastards geofwct.

fortunately our back cam cover did not leak, but we had to do the front one twice.

i ended up getting this stuff for the liquid gaskets from bursons that was the top notch liquid gasket.
japanese stuff. can't remember the brand but its japanese, expensive and orange in colour, that did the job.
the technique is important too.
goo to both surfaces, let it go off a bit and then put the parts together.
(see armidillo's tip, he is right, that is the correct method).

mind you we did not do that with that cam chain cover and somehow got away with it.


but after we did put that green car back together from its head gasket job we did have two persistent leaks.
one from the front cam cover. did it twice.
one from the sump, did it three times.

don't know if you have to pull the engine out, but you need two blokes to tackle them minimum.

that was a prv engine.

i have an intermittent leak from the cam box covers on the ESJ engine, it comes and goes.
until it stays coming and not going i am not going to go making things worse than they are.
 

Motorgnome

Member
Three Bond is the brand.. 1207B is the part number.(B , being for black) Wonderfull stuff, but get's everywhere if you are not carefull. 3 Bond is an original equipment supplier to many Japanese manufacturers & has a whole range of liquid gaskets, but the 1207b is my "go to" .

I once did rocker cover leaks on an old 406 with the ES9 engine, & had to do the job again...From memory, I hadn't used enough silicone ..I had to put more than I would normally use to provide full coverage.
 

wonkipop

Member
good thing you know what you are doing motorgnome.

thats the stuff. three bond.
i used the red brown on the sump.
now you got me going and i will to have to find the black stuff.
sounds like the gear.
cheers mate. your tips are the best.
 

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ajm212

Member
All the above has raised the issue of resealing the rocker covers on my XM. I’ve been at the pre-contemplation phase of this for a while; watching an excellent training video on youtube. I’ve had a few questions about doing this, one of which – a good sealant – has been answered above.

I know I’m going to have to replace the intake manifold gasket (00837800) when I do this. Is there any likely local source for these? I haven’t had any luck so far.

Apart from the obvious changing of spark plugs, is there anything else I should do while I’ve got things apart?

I need to get the timing belt changed too. Can I get this done before replacing the seals, or should I do them first?

Andrew
 

wonkipop

Member
with the ES9J4 engine its worth taking a look at the condition of swirl pot.
on the right hand end of the motor down underneath the throttle body.
the swirl pot does a job debubbling the coolant. its sometimes called a degasser in literature.
(apparently these motors can suffer from air bubbles forming in the coolant solved by a degasser).
the original pots are plastic and in most cars would be at the end of their life.
you can't buy one. NLA. i searched the world to no avail.
when it splits you will be losing a bit of coolant out of it. ours split.
we removed the plastic one and had one fabricated up out of metal using the original to copy.
fitting it is going to be easier with intake manifold and throttle body out of the way.
pretty sure we fabricated it all out of brass.
seems to be working just fine, been in for about 2 years now.

IMG_6213.jpg
 
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Armidillo

1000+ Posts
Good point! And a very sensible thing for me to investigate when I finally get around to replacing my Xm's thermostat.

I managed to break the plastic one on our 406 a few (maybe 5?) years ago. It's the slightly later motor - ES9J4S - so not sure if it's exactly the same part. At the time didn't seem to be too much trouble getting replacement (plastic).
 

wonkipop

Member
@ armidillo, we had a good parts contact at Regan Motors here in melb. who could find us any current parts from Pug/Cit and fly them in from France. they don't seem to hold any sort of stock in country, they just chuck it on a plane.
he drew a blank on it via the computer. he was a pretty good parts guy, he knew his stuff. not sure what went down with Regan Motors in the citroen dealer reshuffle business? i have not chased anything recently.

i emailed parts suppliers and retailers in the UK and got the same no can do. at a certain point i gave up.
added to that my view on these plastic parts is that 9 times out of 10 its old stock and been sitting on a shelf. plastic deplasticizes, even if its not in the car or working in the engine and suffering from heat exposure. the pot failed at the bonded seam. so we just took the plunge and said bugger it, lets make one it will outlast the car and one less thing to go wrong again.
 

Armidillo

1000+ Posts
Not doubting you for a moment! It was intended as a comment on how the parts situation is continuing to get worse.

In fact I went off half cocked - ES9J4S part is different.

ES9J4: 1307HJ

Degassing tank.jpg
ES9J4S: 1307SC
406 degassing tank.jpg

Have you replaced the engine oil breather hose cluster? Also different from the ES9J4S version, and also unavailable AFAIK. My 406 ran much better after I replaced this - am guessing my Xm is probably sucking air through leaks in these pipes.

Cheers

Alec
 

ajm212

Member
Wonkipop's swirl pot arouses some lust in me. Mine broke a few years ago and I made a 'temporary' repair to it:

Degassing tank 1307HJ.jpg

While people talk about them coming apart, in mine the inlet connection turned to mush and crumbled apart. I'm sure the outlet will eventually do the same thing and would love to get my hands on a proper replacement.

There are some guys in France who weld them up in stainless steel. These look like they will outlast the car (and all of us) but are understanably pretty pricey (€100-200) and they're not really set up to send them OS. CX Basis used to stock a repro version with the wrong diameter top connector and reports of early versions splitting apart. They are currently out of stock. Perhaps the new stock will have the correct top.
 

wonkipop

Member
Not doubting you for a moment! It was intended as a comment on how the parts situation is continuing to get worse.

In fact I went off half cocked - ES9J4S part is different.

ES9J4: 1307HJ

View attachment 129319
ES9J4S: 1307SC
View attachment 129318

Have you replaced the engine oil breather hose cluster? Also different from the ES9J4S version, and also unavailable AFAIK. My 406 ran much better after I replaced this - am guessing my Xm is probably sucking air through leaks in these pipes.

Cheers

Alec
what you trying to do armmidillo, give me sleepness nights with another thing to worry about.
haha.
actually i am planning to dig down and do the thermostat when i replace the radiator (which i am still nursing and is yet another thing that is hard to get if not impossible for these later cars - so bugger that, i will get one made, at least it will be repairable until eternity). got the thermostat in a box. (some bloke at hoppers is alleged to have 2 rads but wants 1K for each, for that $ i can get a stainless custom made).
maybe i will dig in and take a look at those breathers too when i summon up the courage for the thermo and rad. thanks for the tip mate.

ps - i am remembering now just how much imagination i tried to apply to that swirl pot problem. including knowing that basically, more or less the same engine went into renault clio V6s. so i was looking as far afield as renault for a possible parts source. but no luck.
the difference in design from pug to xm might have something to do with the radiator. its very low and wide in an xm and i don't think its the same as the pug radiator? coolant flows etc and piping directions. anyway did not want to mess with design given cautionary view of air bubble problem that might strike this engine if something that looked innocent did not quite work right.
 
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wonkipop

Member
Wonkipop's swirl pot arouses some lust in me. Mine broke a few years ago and I made a 'temporary' repair to it:
While people talk about them coming apart, in mine the inlet connection turned to mush and crumbled apart. I'm sure the outlet will eventually do the same thing and would love to get my hands on a proper replacement.

There are some guys in France who weld them up in stainless steel. These look like they will outlast the car (and all of us) but are understanably pretty pricey (€100-200) and they're not really set up to send them OS. CX Basis used to stock a repro version with the wrong diameter top connector and reports of early versions splitting apart. They are currently out of stock. Perhaps the new stock will have the correct top.
i can ask mike, our mechanic, where exactly we got ours made. it was a bloke he knew who fabricates these kinds of things.
i do some work on the car and leave other bits to mike where i get out of my depth - way out of my depth esp on this xm.
or i stand there and he tells me what to do and walks away with a grin on his face.
by the time you muck about and make one of these things and pay someone properly my guess is its not that far off the frenchies but without the added hassle of an international transaction. (i do have a mate in paris who has helped me out with a couple of esoteric french things, ie the LED instrument readout kit, which i can tell you is real good and works, i've now got a a dopey little thing that tells me to shut the door etc and so on in full glory again).

i might have a receipt somewhere which has a cost on it. mike can tell me exactly what its fabricated from too if i ask him.
whether a combo of ss and brass or fully brass. the guy who made it for us is in melbourne.
 

wonkipop

Member
ps - does anyone have an xm that suffers from a broken security code cover press latch.
ie its otherwise unbroken apart from the latch.
i went through a bit of a saga with this, replacing the broken cover entirely with a new one 2 years ago.
only for the the actual press catch to break straight away about the third time it was touched.
about 6 months ago i came across an obscure ebay listing where a guy was selling just the little catch (press lock).
i bought 6 of them because why buy one of such a tiny useless thing.
anyway its gone for 6 months now without breaking and operating nicely.
so does not appear to be rubbish product. (he must have got them from somewhere other than cit/pug part suppliers?)
anyone desperate for just that stupid little bit i can spare a couple.
 

Armidillo

1000+ Posts
I would be happy to participate in a 'group buy' of swirl pots. AFAIK mine is fine - but obviously it's only a matter of time...

Mr Pop, do you have the thermostat gasket/seal (P/N 134042)? Apparently these rust/get damaged, and should always be replaced with the thermostat. Much harder to find than the thermostat itself!!! Fortunately still available from Citroen - pretty sure I ordered mine from Continentals (sticky label on it says "Trivett Parramatta", which is interesting).
 

wonkipop

Member
i'll check mate. its sitting down the workshop still in the box. mike ordered it in a while back, think he would have ordered the gasket as well but you never know. thanks for the tip.

if you guys do want to see if mike can arrange a batch i still have the plastic one in a box he can use as the reference model again.

usually when they go if the seam splits you get a bit of warning, not a catastrophic failure - more the onset of a gradual decline.
 

Armidillo

1000+ Posts
ps - does anyone have an xm that suffers from a broken security code cover press latch.
ie its otherwise unbroken apart from the latch.
i went through a bit of a saga with this, replacing the broken cover entirely with a new one 2 years ago.
only for the the actual press catch to break straight away about the third time it was touched.
about 6 months ago i came across an obscure ebay listing where a guy was selling just the little catch (press lock).
i bought 6 of them because why buy one of such a tiny useless thing.
anyway its gone for 6 months now without breaking and operating nicely.
so does not appear to be rubbish product. (he must have got them from somewhere other than cit/pug part suppliers?)
anyone desperate for just that stupid little bit i can spare a couple.
Yes please - mine's half broken. My cover is good, but has no hinge springs. The latch should lift it enough so that hinge springs are not needed. Will send a PM.

I am pretty sure that the latch (or ones that look very similar) is used in covers on quite unrelated products - had thought of going to see our local electronics repair guy to see if he had a source.

You may have read this story, but apparently the workshop at one of the big UK dealers thought the cover was a useless waste of time, and would pull off the covers on cars in for service (used to leave them in the armrest box). This of course would nearly always break the hinge :rolleyes: .

Have you disconnected your keypad? I never got around to it on my Series I Xantia, but have done on my Xm - I think the dismantling procedure was a bit more obvious than on the Xantia. Just disconnect the plug (hidden under the keypad) while the engine is running, and it never asks for the code again! Slight increase in risk of theft, but I'll risk it! Apart from the time saving every time I start the car, it saves wear on the cover, the latch and the keypad itself :).
 
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