1959 4cv Restoration in North Carolina USA

Is it possible to have the original 4CV shocks rebuilt to original spec? Given the age of the car it may be that they were built to be serviced rather than thrown away. And even if they weren't, it is still worth a shot. Modern technology is amazing.

Ebay France sometimes turns up good deals too. Just need to convince then to ship.

I have had an old BMW (1968) which had adjustable sport Konis all round and when I bought the car it was floating like a boat. Turned the shocks to full lock and voila! Night and day difference. Brilliant shocks. That is why I mentioned valving because as I understand it, those Konis were adjusted by closing and opening the valves in the piston.
 
schlitzaugen said:
Is it possible to have the original 4CV shocks rebuilt to original spec? Given the age of the car it may be that they were built to be serviced rather than thrown away. And even if they weren't, it is still worth a shot. Modern technology is amazing.

Ebay France sometimes turns up good deals too. Just need to convince then to ship.

I have had an old BMW (1968) which had adjustable sport Konis all round and when I bought the car it was floating like a boat. Turned the shocks to full lock and voila! Night and day difference. Brilliant shocks. That is why I mentioned valving because as I understand it, those Konis were adjusted by closing and opening the valves in the piston.
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Probably cheaper to just buy new ones built to the 4CV spec. They are readily available. All praise to Konis.............
 
I got the tires mounted on the wheels today. It's starting to look like a car again. Can I get the wristpin bushings installed and reamed using the old wristpins as a guide for fit? The old ones should not be worn on the ends where they fit in the piston. The other option is to wait until I have the new pistons and cylinders.
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Had to google that one. Ah, gudgeon pin!! Personally I'd wait.

Starting to look good.

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We had a small gathering at our place the other day - picking the hottest day for some time, at near 40 degrees!
 
My father, a mechanic, used to alternate the name wrist pin and gudgeon. His trade was learnt through book learning and his books were both English and American.
 
Sorry for the confusion, I should have consulted my MGA manual for the proper term. I have not found an oil thrower ring for the rear of the crankshaft, but I think the early Austin A series engine oil thrower has the same ID. A friend who lives not too far away has a large amount of MG parts, so I will get one from him. The headlight assemblies and chrome trim rings for the American spec 4cvs are expensive, and they don't look that great . I am considering using MG headlight assemblies since my friend also has some of these sitting around.
 
No worries about confusion, more amusement than confusion I'd say. :) I'll have to rummage deep in a cupboard to check, but I thought those oil slingers/throwers were integral with the crankshaft at the flywheel end - the timing end saw a thrower integral with the generator pulley for one type of timing cover and a proper seal housing on the later engines, with a different generator pulley.
 
Yes, the slinger at the flywheel end is integral with the crank. I thought that all 4cv and Dauphine engines had the oil thrower ring on the timing cover end, but I might be confusing it with the MGA. The MGA did not have a proper front oil seal until near the end of production. They used a slinger ring and a felt seal. The MGB timing cover was interchangeable, so it was easy to have a real oil seal. All MGAs, and as far as I know, MGBs had the oil thrower ring. I know that earlier 4cvs and possibly Dauphines had a pulley with a scroll to keep the oil in. I don't know if those early cars had a felt in the timing cover or not. It may be that the oil thrower/slinger is not absolutely necessary on engines with the rubber seal, but I hate leaking engines and would prefer to have an oil thrower ring if possible.
 
The oil thrower ring might also help lubricate the timing gears. I think at some point in production there were some changes in the lubrication of the timing gears, but I would have to look through my manuals to verify.
 
A few points here. Yes, I recall a modification in timing gear lubrication - not sure what but maybe a small hole giving an oil jet out from the block? I've been told that Dauphine Gordinis wore them out faster, with the different cam and stronger valve springs I suppose. There were wider gears on some engines too. R4s had a much wider gear and later went to chain.
There's no felt seal on the "slinger" engines, just a small air gap - I was taught to fit the timing cover with the slinger pulley in place and gasket paper around it to more or less centralise it before tightening the screws/bolt. I retrofitted a timing cover with a seal but it still leaks a bit. The area around the front of the sump (oil pan) gaskets at the main bearing cap and the paper gasket behind the big metal plate is prone to leaks, that is for sure and it is neither easy to see where it gets out nor easy to fix! I park over a sheet of cardboard and wipe the sump when I remember. It leaks just enough to be a nuisance with a few drips, not a stream! Ditto at the swing axles if the studs aren't sealed into the alloy housing.
 
I looked at the parts book, and it appears that my engine did not come with a slinger/oil thrower ring. Did the ones with a modern seal omit the oil thrower? I may have been going through a lot of concern over nothing. Renault had a special tool for centering the timing cover so that the seal would work properly. The original pulley on my car was destroyed during disassembly by the previous owner, but the remains will make a really good centering tool when tightening the timing cover.
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Stan W said:
I looked at the parts book, and it appears that my engine did not come with a slinger/oil thrower ring. Did the ones with a modern seal omit the oil thrower? I may have been going through a lot of concern over nothing. Renault had a special tool for centering the timing cover so that the seal would work properly. The original pulley on my car was destroyed during disassembly by the previous owner, but the remains will make a really good centering tool when tightening the timing cover.
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That's correct. No slinger on the pulleys with a face to match the oil seal. I had to fit a Speedi-sleeve to my pulley as there was a deep wear groove where the seal had been sitting. Previous owner and oil changes I bet!!!
 
Not necessarily. I found grooves like that in nearly every car I worked on from BMW to Hyundai, Toyota, Honda, endless Renaults and Peugeot. My take on it is that most people just don't give these grooves any attention and they just don't care about the leaks. Most people I've seen (including on this very forum) are also not anal enough to change these seals properly. Most importantly file down the burrs on either side of the groove (or at least the front one). Drive home a new seal over these burrs and it's toast.

Either way, I think the environment where you drive makes most of the difference followed by shaft material. You can mitigate both by changing the seal more often. The oil shouldn't have particles in it (that's why you have an oil filter).

My solution to the problem is to get a deeper or a thinner seal (or space it out) to move the friction point elsewhere.
 
schlitzaugen said:
Not necessarily. I found grooves like that in nearly every car I worked on from BMW to Hyundai, Toyota, Honda, endless Renaults and Peugeot. My take on it is that most people just don't give these grooves any attention and they just don't care about the leaks. Most people I've seen (including on this very forum) are also not anal enough to change these seals properly. Most importantly file down the burrs on either side of the groove (or at least the front one). Drive home a new seal over these burrs and it's toast.

Either way, I think the environment where you drive makes most of the difference followed by shaft material. You can mitigate both by changing the seal more often. The oil shouldn't have particles in it (that's why you have an oil filter).

My solution to the problem is to get a deeper or a thinner seal (or space it out) to move the friction point elsewhere.
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Yes to much of that. However, there were no oil filters on most 4CVs and, if there was one on late cars with fittings on the block, it was a bypass filter not a full flow filter. Most cars were neglected in later life as second or third cars with rare oil changes or greasing. To make it worse, some had aftermarket or ineffectual air filters. Yes, shifting the seal is obvious but on those timing covers there is very little latitude for seal position.

I've given up and wipe the 4CV sump down from time to time. After a decent drive, it drops a few drips. The R8 is dry in the engine department, full stop and has been for 32 years.
 
I luv Speedie sleaves. Only ever had one failure and that was during installation, the tear off edge used to drive the sleave into place, damaged the sleeve when I tried to remove it. Had to cut the sleeve off and buy another.
 
I will probably buy a new pulley, so that will help prevent oil leaks a little. Even with a PCV system, it might leak a little since the engine design does not allow a negative crankcase pressure. Cars that have "real" oil seals on both ends of the crank and cam plus a PCV system usually don't leak much. My Dauphines leaked a tiny bit, but not nearly as much as my MGA MK I.

I spent all day making patterns for the cardboard on either side of the radiator. There are many, many different versions of the cardboards for the 4cv. The one I needed for the left was pictured in the parts book, but the one on the right was not. I had about half of the original cardboard for each side. I also installed the demisting hoses. The demisting system will work as well as new - which means almost not at all. ;) I also included a picture of the fan shroud to show the lower hose attachment that I welded on. For some unknown reason, the shroud only had one outlet at the top. Probably off of an earlier car.

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Stan W said:
I will probably buy a new pulley, so that will help prevent oil leaks a little. Even with a PCV system, it might leak a little since the engine design does not allow a negative crankcase pressure. Cars that have "real" oil seals on both ends of the crank and cam plus a PCV system usually don't leak much. My Dauphines leaked a tiny bit, but not nearly as much as my MGA MK I.

I spent all day making patterns for the cardboard on either side of the radiator. There are many, many different versions of the cardboards for the 4cv. The one I needed for the left was pictured in the parts book, but the one on the right was not. I had about half of the original cardboard for each side. I also installed the demisting hoses. The demisting system will work as well as new - which means almost not at all. ;) I also included a picture of the fan shroud to show the lower hose attachment that I welded on. For some unknown reason, the shroud only had one outlet at the top. Probably off of an earlier car.

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The right hand one, with the Sofica unit, isn't shown in my parts books either, but you've sorted it obviously. AFAIK, it was the cars from about 1954-on that had the central heater outlet from the back seat floor, and that was when the lower warm air spigot became part of that left hand shroud. The correct one for my car is what you've illustrated, but I've never found one, so I blocked off the spigot on the one I did find.

I found that you know the heater was in fact working when you get out of the car and discover it is colder outside. You do get a wee bit of warmish air - my car doesn't have the demister vents, so a shorter distance to the front floor outlets!

Looks like the original radiator - they seem to survive surprisingly well. My 1964 R8 radiator is just fine.
 
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I cleaned the radiator with a vinegar a while back, it wasn't very dirty. It may have been re-cored, but I don't know what the original solder joints looked like. If you think it looks original, it probably is. The sofica heater should work a lot better than the old fan shroud. New door weatherstrip makes all the difference in heater effectiveness. My Nash metropolitan heater didn't work well until new weatherstrip became available.
 
Stan W said:
I cleaned the radiator with a vinegar a while back, it wasn't very dirty. It may have been re-cored, but I don't know what the original solder joints looked like. If you think it looks original, it probably is. The sofica heater should work a lot better than the old fan shroud. New door weatherstrip makes all the difference in heater effectiveness. My Nash metropolitan heater didn't work well until new weatherstrip became available.
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The fin pattern is the same as my 1964 R8.

Yes, re door seals! Did the Metropolitan have a Smiths heater, out of interest or a US one?
 
i drove a 4cv for some time before i discovered there was a demist function ,whilst driving i noticed smoke coming out of those slots in the bottom corners of the screen ,the engine was on fire ,the metal pipe on the output side of the fuel pump had popped out spraying fuel all over the distributor ,the car kept running on what was left in the carby ,i managed to put it out ,but was stranded till i found a public phone ,rang my wife with a parts list ,ht leads and some wire ,so i could do repairs ,she turned up with a set of ht leads for a mini which i was able to adapt to get home ,from memory i just jammed my longnose pliers down that pipe to flair it and knocked it back in the pump to get home ,keeping a close eye on those windscreen vents
 
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