If you take off the windscreen wipers and the plenum chamber, it's really not bad. But that R&I adds an extra 30 minutes to the task.
BRISBANE. Bougth a 207 GTi lemon.
- Thread starter Andy's first frenchie
- Start date
This is the confusing part as far as the throttle pedal is concerned. If it pulls correctly some times, it would suggest the throttle pedal is good and it can fully open the throttle plate. But why is it then that other times it doesn't?! It may be something to do with the way the ECU responds, it may be the pedal is in fact faulty but the fault is intermittent. Not that clear, because why would an intermittent fault show up with any regularity (some gears but not others, consistently the same).
I think a vacuum problem is good working hypothesis, but that would be only a symptom, not the cause or not the root cause of the problem.
A caked up intake path could be the root of the problem, other problem areas seem to revolve around the pedal, sensors, some plumbing to do with the turbo or a combination of all of these.
Right now it feels like we're still shooting in the dark after all these pages.
Hehehehehe! Good luck trying to see what's happening with the throttle plate, right seasink?
The 5V supply suggests some digical magic happening inside. Probably reading the encoder, comparing with input, amplification then back to the ECU. The drawing suggests some ICs doing the work. Two signal paths suggests one control and one feedback with the final decision made by the ECU. Gawd, how annoying can these things get?!
That fucker is so annoying I would dismantle the whole bazoonga and take it to the test bench. At least the motor operation should be easy to check.
You really have to wonder if all of this crap is any better than a good old cable.
I wouldn't get too hung up on the throttle position. Different OBD readers interpret the signals differently. Only the fault codes are regulated by the spec, live data is very manufacturer dependent.
Again, DiagBox would tell you the actual positions.
Again, DiagBox would tell you the actual positions.
I've used those exact Mini instructions on my 207 with no issues at all. Yes you can't see everything, which is why the photos in the link are invaluable !
There's only one annoying fixing when removing the intake manifold, and it's the single bolt that's underneath - but you can actually see it from underneath the car if you get your head in the right spot
It's Figure 14 on that page.
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Schlitz, engine off, key on, OBDII says:
- 12.6% fully closed
- 85.5% flat to the floor.
- 12.6% fully closed
- 85.5% flat to the floor.
I joined the planet 2000 & Lexia UK fb page and I got f@kall help.
Next time around i may take it to Peugeotech instead and have them focus on electronic diagnosis.
Atm the car is acceptable and i actually enjoy driving it.
You're welcome to come and plug it into mine. I'm on the north side though.
Awesome, will definitely take you up on your offer soon, probably after the MAP and spark plugs replacement but before replacing the accelerator pedal, after which I've done everything I can without getting into proper carbon cleaning and other invasive things.
That is data.
We still don't know what is actually happening, but based on that alone I would go to the trouble and and take everything that is in the way and repeat the test whilst looking at the damn thing.
It would be easier to test the pedal pots first but you were disinclined to follow that suggestion.
Even looking at the throttle plate you still won't know what is the part at fault (if any) so you will still have to check the pedal pots eventually.
And the throttle plate electronics.
And if both check out right, you still have the ECU and the question of what is happening elsewhere. But at least you have ruled out problems with the throttle mechanism/system entirely.
My opinion so far is that your pedal is not the right one for your car (based on earlier comments you have made). Someone changed it with the wrong part and now you're picking up the pieces. If there are any other problems (which is not yet ruled out) they compound the problem.
All of the above is a roundabout way to approach diagnosis. Even the OBD/other tools like that don't tell you what the problem is. To do things properly you would need to scope the signal going form the ECU to the throttle motor. If that is good (by that I mean in agreement with how much you press the throttle pedal), all the throttle stuff is good and you can get on with testing all the other stuff.
If it's not in agreement, you need to check the signals from the throttle plate. Your sensor there is a rotary encoder (I've looked at your diagram above a bit) and there are two streams of data it is sending back to the ECU (direction of rotation and angle). If any of these is out of whack, you've got a problem. The ECU determines the position of the plate, decides what to do next and sends the command to the motor. A scope would show you the response signals and whether they're right or wrong.
If these signals are good, you need to check the pedal pots. If those are bad, congrats. If they are good, your entire throttle system is good, you've got a problem elsewhere.
Actually this makes sense because the ME17 ECU is calibrated to achieve a specified torque, any attempts to flow more air, higher boost, etc that result in a higher torque than what it is calibrated to see will cause the ECU to reduce throttle opening, reduce boost, reduce ignition and finally soft rev limit it to get the torque below the calibrated value.
This also makes sense as the erase codes process also reinitialises all the memory variables it had learned that kept the diverters turned off.
It's also possible some bright spark has reflashed it with a tune that turns off the fault codes that would have been generated in this situation.
Unless you were getting specific pedal coherence fault codes I'm leaning towards the pedal being OK. I reckon the next step is to get ECU updated with a stock program and then use Diagbox to log live data and see what codes you get.
Schlitz im not disinclined to check pots and potentiometer readings, I just don't know how to do it or have the tools. A mate does and is willing to help but he's having medical issues atm so don't want to bother him.
There's a same model for sale here, on fb marketplace, and I've been reluctant to impose on seller but I'll send a polite message to ask if he can send a photo of his pedal box number.
There's a same model for sale here, on fb marketplace, and I've been reluctant to impose on seller but I'll send a polite message to ask if he can send a photo of his pedal box number.
Like I said before, it's not difficult and can be done with an el cheapo meter from Jaycar (ten bucks) or the likes likes of. You don't need anything fancy or any knowledge. I mean people have explained here in this thread how to do much more difficult things and with this one, there's no risk to you or the car. You just need to try and at worst you lost 10 bucks.
I agree, I think if you were getting "electronics" issues that you would also be getting fault codes.
For this reason I think timing or carbon or vacuum - these are all "mechanical" systems that won't necessarily generate codes until something gets wrong enough !
The good news is that all three are easy enough to check. But not necessarily easy to fix...
This pedal is contactless, there are no pots to clean or measure like in a 90's pedal. Also a multimeter will not pick up the pulse correlating to speed of pedal movement, would need to use a scope. There's more info about it in the Hella Workshop link I posted in the pedal part number thread.
Bang for buck, get Diagbox, navigate to the ecu test actuators page and run the throttle tests.
I see.
However.
The two links (yours and seasink's) in the other thread don't appear to talk abut the same construction.
Seasink has linked to a document which seems to me more likely to be your pedal. Dunno about the other one. The former is Hall effect the latter something else (not sure yet). If Seasink is right, you can measure the output voltages with a meter at outputs S1 and S2 and compare to see 1) that each is in its correct range (see seasink's document) and 2) the ratio is within range.
The document is easily readable by non french speakers.
Seasink's document mentions the construction is based around two potentiometers, by the way. Contactless, but still pots. Irrelevant now.
I've also seen english doco for the ME7.4.4 ECU that pedal has contactless potentiometers, the motorised throttle has double track potentiometer, and that you need to use Diagbox to program the closed and fully open positions. I think the ME17 ECU might be different, but regardless, supposition and guesswork is eliminated by navigating the Actuator and Configuration menus in Diagbox to see what needs to be done.
Mmmm, I don't think I'll grumble so much next time one of my accelerators fails.
Mine comes from a French EP6DT teaching manual. I have never dismantled a pedal to check the manual's accuracy. For the things I have used it for it was OK.
The moving pedal uses the Hall effect, like many other sensors of rotation, connected to the bases of a pair of transistors, whose output voltages are in the document.
But the plug socket may make it difficult to get a voltmeter on. A 5v DC power supply would enable you to pull the plug out. It may be easier for the OP to test by replacement.
AlexB's Diagbox recommendation has much going for it. Let the computer tell you.
I don't think that potentiomètre here means a conventional variable resistance.
The moving pedal uses the Hall effect, like many other sensors of rotation, connected to the bases of a pair of transistors, whose output voltages are in the document.
But the plug socket may make it difficult to get a voltmeter on. A 5v DC power supply would enable you to pull the plug out. It may be easier for the OP to test by replacement.
AlexB's Diagbox recommendation has much going for it. Let the computer tell you.
I don't think that potentiomètre here means a conventional variable resistance.