Later cars with this engine, such as the DS3 DSport use a 6 speed box. The difference during acceleration with the extra gear is quite noticeable. This box uses a concentric clutch slave cylinder.
BRISBANE. Bougth a 207 GTi lemon.
- Thread starter Andy's first frenchie
- Start date
Hey Andy, have a good read of this - https://www.peugeotforums.com/threads/2006-207-1-6-thp-110kw.363232/ - this guy seems to have the same issue.
You can check the LTFT yourself with Torque Pro on your phone - use a Bluetooth OBD dongle, and go for a drive - you should see the STFT shifting around a whole lot and the LTFT fairly static after a few minutes.
I actually lost boost on the way home from work a few days ago, and my LTFT is sitting around 25%
There's another app called FAP which you can grab from the Amazon Appstore - https://www.amazon.com/FAP-Citroen-Peugeot-ELM327-OBD2/dp/B01LJUI2TA - custom built for talking to Peugeot/Citroen, this displays and will diagnose a whole bunch of stuff - and it will probably show codes that your existing code reader cannot see (not sure what code reader you are using ?).
Hey Nom. That's a lot of codes and none are the same as mine re numbers but some descriptions are similar. My codes are all P13-something and P0-something.
I only read the OP, will get to it later, but what is LTFT/STFT?
I had Torque Pro to try diagnosing another car, seems like a good app and another member here suggested FAP but I could only find FAPLite.
I have a fancy Topdon ArtiDiag500 S now, but the only live data I've use is throttle position and its showing 12.94% at min and 85.35% at max.
Min is apparently within general normal range (0-14%), but I feel max is off because it doesn't go any higher when I push it that little bit extra past the overboost switch. (Which i believe isn't an actual electronic switch but just a spring loaded stopper)
Gonna get a mate to drive as I read it.
I've joined that forum and will try to help him out.
I only read the OP, will get to it later, but what is LTFT/STFT?
I had Torque Pro to try diagnosing another car, seems like a good app and another member here suggested FAP but I could only find FAPLite.
I have a fancy Topdon ArtiDiag500 S now, but the only live data I've use is throttle position and its showing 12.94% at min and 85.35% at max.
Min is apparently within general normal range (0-14%), but I feel max is off because it doesn't go any higher when I push it that little bit extra past the overboost switch. (Which i believe isn't an actual electronic switch but just a spring loaded stopper)
Gonna get a mate to drive as I read it.
I've joined that forum and will try to help him out.
LTFT = Long Term Fuel Trim (and the STFT is Short Term Fuel Trim).
Basically the richness indicator. If your timing is out, the engine will add or remove fuel to try to fix the lean or rich running. Eventually it gets so high (25% ?) that boost gets limited (I assume to protect the engine from doom).
Basically the richness indicator. If your timing is out, the engine will add or remove fuel to try to fix the lean or rich running. Eventually it gets so high (25% ?) that boost gets limited (I assume to protect the engine from doom).
Food for thought. Well I've done almost all I could with my limited knowledge/tools besides testing/swapping accelerator pedal so it will back to Euroserve, or try Peugeotech, for expert diagnosis.
I had a thought a couple months ago... could the previous owner have fitted the wrong turbo...
Euroserve did spot it and said its not OEM but its a good brand (from memory it was Borg Warner) and they said it's not boosting as much as it should but it was only 1-2psi less.
In 1st and 2nd it feels like a 2.2L NA until I get a linear torque kick around 4,400RPm
In 3rd and above there's definitely good torque from 2,400RPM.
But, as you probably know, its advertised to make max torque from 1,600RPM.
It Hates living less than 1,400RPM, and to me that in itself is an indication of bad timing
I'll take a pic of the ID plate this arvo and probably create a new post concentrating on turbo identification.
I had a thought a couple months ago... could the previous owner have fitted the wrong turbo...
Euroserve did spot it and said its not OEM but its a good brand (from memory it was Borg Warner) and they said it's not boosting as much as it should but it was only 1-2psi less.
In 1st and 2nd it feels like a 2.2L NA until I get a linear torque kick around 4,400RPm
In 3rd and above there's definitely good torque from 2,400RPM.
But, as you probably know, its advertised to make max torque from 1,600RPM.
It Hates living less than 1,400RPM, and to me that in itself is an indication of bad timing
I'll take a pic of the ID plate this arvo and probably create a new post concentrating on turbo identification.
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Even if its the wrong turbo, I'm 100% losing all boost in sh!t mode because I can hardly hear diverter valve as opposed to copious anti social volumes in ok mode.
On these engines the turbo boost is controlled entirely by the ECU.
The turbo sits with it's wastegate open making no boost at all - this is the default.
Only when the ECU allows boost by actively closing the wastegate (via the vacuum control lines), does boost happen.
There's nothing wrong with your turbo itself. The ECU will only ask it for boost when everything is in good order...
(and if it asks for boost but doesn't get it, then the engine management light comes on and you get a code for "Not enough turbo pressure" - this is what happens when you've got a leak in the vacuum system or faulty valves (the one on the front right of the turbo or the one on the back of the engine under the intake).
The turbo sits with it's wastegate open making no boost at all - this is the default.
Only when the ECU allows boost by actively closing the wastegate (via the vacuum control lines), does boost happen.
There's nothing wrong with your turbo itself. The ECU will only ask it for boost when everything is in good order...
(and if it asks for boost but doesn't get it, then the engine management light comes on and you get a code for "Not enough turbo pressure" - this is what happens when you've got a leak in the vacuum system or faulty valves (the one on the front right of the turbo or the one on the back of the engine under the intake).
So when I was driving home from work last week with no boost, there was no engine management light lit.
But I pulled the codes anyway when I got home, and there was P0171 Mixture too lean and also P1186 Misfire on unspecified cylinders.
Torque Pro app says my LTFT is 25% and in Diagbox it was showing 23% last week. So I'm pretty sure my boost was limited due to that 25% threshold ... probably timing chains in my case. Mine was replaced around 70K and then again at 120K. And now it's done 167K, and it probably needs doing again !
Regardless, my spark plugs are 10 years / 70K old, so I replaced those this morning along with the 4 coil packs which are original I think (so 167K old). That seems to have helped with the lumpy idle I've been getting, but it seems to come and go so maybe not - I'll keep an eye on it.
(plugs https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=11247332 and coils https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=7187280&jsn=271 - it's amazing how much cheaper this stuff is from the US - they arrived this morning after ordering last week)
But I pulled the codes anyway when I got home, and there was P0171 Mixture too lean and also P1186 Misfire on unspecified cylinders.
Torque Pro app says my LTFT is 25% and in Diagbox it was showing 23% last week. So I'm pretty sure my boost was limited due to that 25% threshold ... probably timing chains in my case. Mine was replaced around 70K and then again at 120K. And now it's done 167K, and it probably needs doing again !
Regardless, my spark plugs are 10 years / 70K old, so I replaced those this morning along with the 4 coil packs which are original I think (so 167K old). That seems to have helped with the lumpy idle I've been getting, but it seems to come and go so maybe not - I'll keep an eye on it.
(plugs https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=11247332 and coils https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=7187280&jsn=271 - it's amazing how much cheaper this stuff is from the US - they arrived this morning after ordering last week)
Searched for plugs on Rockauto a couple months ago, didn't find them.
I've got new plugs and new coils in as of a few weeks ago.
Last time I lost boost (every time no CEL come on), I decided to read the code (my Bosch OBDII doesn't come up with them) on the Topdon and it came up with the same P0171.
My misfire code (which only happened several times and not associated with boost loss) has always been P1339 which is cylinder 3. When it first happens I swapped coils around, still cylinder 3 so the last time I pulled the plug and closed the gap slightly.
Besides the few times it's misfired, my idle has been smooth.
Can you do me a favour, next time you play around with Torque pro or diagbox, can you please record your min/max throttle values.
Both in terms of % as well as mV.
I've got new plugs and new coils in as of a few weeks ago.
Last time I lost boost (every time no CEL come on), I decided to read the code (my Bosch OBDII doesn't come up with them) on the Topdon and it came up with the same P0171.
My misfire code (which only happened several times and not associated with boost loss) has always been P1339 which is cylinder 3. When it first happens I swapped coils around, still cylinder 3 so the last time I pulled the plug and closed the gap slightly.
Besides the few times it's misfired, my idle has been smooth.
Can you do me a favour, next time you play around with Torque pro or diagbox, can you please record your min/max throttle values.
Both in terms of % as well as mV.
Yes I'll try and do this tomorrow
But I think your throttle is all OK.Looking my plugs that I just removed, the light brown deposits etc. they look like they're in perfect health - no indications at all of running too rich or lean (overheated).
Thanks mate. No rush. Could you do the throttle % first, when engine is off 
"The turbo sits with it's wastegate open making no boost at all - this is the default.
Only when the ECU allows boost by actively closing the wastegate (via the vacuum control lines), does boost happen"
Yes, I've been trying to figure out why my boost tee install didn't work and I finally found a YouTube explaining this, that its vacuum activated instead of boost activated. It also says that because of it, the wastegate constantly opens and shuts. Kinda dumb IMO. Crazy Germans.
It's left me wondering how I can cheat the system like the boost tee. A one-way valve will cause the wastegate to remain shut which isn't ideal.
I guess you can install an electronic boost tee that can open at a certain pressure allowing a tiny bit of engine vacuum to bleed back allowing the wastegate to open a bit.
Meh... Not gonna go through that kind of hassle.
Only when the ECU allows boost by actively closing the wastegate (via the vacuum control lines), does boost happen"
Yes, I've been trying to figure out why my boost tee install didn't work and I finally found a YouTube explaining this, that its vacuum activated instead of boost activated. It also says that because of it, the wastegate constantly opens and shuts. Kinda dumb IMO. Crazy Germans.
It's left me wondering how I can cheat the system like the boost tee. A one-way valve will cause the wastegate to remain shut which isn't ideal.
I guess you can install an electronic boost tee that can open at a certain pressure allowing a tiny bit of engine vacuum to bleed back allowing the wastegate to open a bit.
Meh... Not gonna go through that kind of hassle.
So engine off, my throttle is sitting at 13.73% - if I floor the pedal, it goes up to about 86%.
Engine on and driving around, it works just the same - sits at about 13% with foot off the pedal, jumps to about 86-88% if I jam the pedal down.
I found two sensors for this in Torque, one was the throttle pedal itself (I think ?) and one was the manifold throttle position - but they're both synced very closely in my case.
I only got the percentages, didn't realise you can read the mV too, I'll have another look today
(I'm running totally fine at the moment, full power, no issues)
Thanks mate. Virtually same as mine 12.94% closed and 85.something% open. Havent done it with engine running
Hey Andy, how are you getting on ?
I took mine to a Peugeot dealer last week to replace the timing chains and do a full carbon clean.
$3300 later (yeah...) and it's back to full function. My LTFT (long term fuel trim) is back down to 0.7% now, and it drives like a different car !
They also warned me when I dropped it off that some of my misfire codes were likely to be the HPFP (high pressure fuel pump) and that's another significant bill - but that all tested fine, so no work needed there.
Interestingly one of the things on the invoice was 1KG of "cleaning granules" at $126 - so they must have moved on to doing a media blast like BMW do with the walnut shells. I don't have any pics but hopefully my valves are shiny and clean now.
I took mine to a Peugeot dealer last week to replace the timing chains and do a full carbon clean.
$3300 later (yeah...) and it's back to full function. My LTFT (long term fuel trim) is back down to 0.7% now, and it drives like a different car !
They also warned me when I dropped it off that some of my misfire codes were likely to be the HPFP (high pressure fuel pump) and that's another significant bill - but that all tested fine, so no work needed there.
Interestingly one of the things on the invoice was 1KG of "cleaning granules" at $126 - so they must have moved on to doing a media blast like BMW do with the walnut shells. I don't have any pics but hopefully my valves are shiny and clean now.
Misfire is a common result of clagged up ports and valves. The air:fuel ratio is changed.
You paid top price. PSA dealers have a liquid solvent for cleaning the inlets. You spray it on and leave it to soak to soften the deposits. It can be bought as a spare part.
You paid top price. PSA dealers have a liquid solvent for cleaning the inlets. You spray it on and leave it to soak to soften the deposits. It can be bought as a spare part.
Yeah they did this too, that solution is also on the invoice !
what the part no. of the PSA solution?