I found a contemporary road test that got one to 140kph, it took 84 seconds to go from 130 to 140 kph.
Citroen claimed a 152kph top speed for the 80hp engine Safari.
My new challenge - 1964 ID19F Safari
- Thread starter bleudanube
- Start date
Citroen claimed a 152kph top speed for the 80hp engine Safari.
Had a VW with a new set of plugs that had an annoying miss. Hours after, yep one new plug faulty!
I had a Renault 16TS many many moons ago, it was running fine but I figured I'd give it a service which included a shiny new set of Bosch plugs.
Pulled out the grubby looking Golden Lodge plugs, these were the pink porcelain ones with the multiple grounding straps.
Went for a spin with the new plugs, misfired like a b#stard. Pulled the old GL plugs out of the bin, swapped them back over, misfiring gone.
The Golden Lodge plugs were still in the car when I sold it a couple of years later.
Mind you I've had the odd crook new plug in most brands, AC, Bosch, Champion, KLG, NGK, Nippondenso etc.
Excellent.
My '57 DS19 with 75hp held 140 on the autobahn from Frankfurt to Cologne.....
Just!
80hp is plenty.
And the gearing is perfect.
(I'm only just restraining myself from commenting on the suggestions coming from the other corner)
My '57 DS19 with 75hp held 140 on the autobahn from Frankfurt to Cologne.....
Just!
80hp is plenty.
And the gearing is perfect.
(I'm only just restraining myself from commenting on the suggestions coming from the other corner)
Good things, those Golden Lodge spark plugs. The can make any tired old engine fire nicely, but they get gummed up easily. And it is not worth cleaning them.
The best maintenance I ever did on my sister's Alfa GTV was to replace them every 6 months.
Roger
140…. Well, maybe once the engine has settled in it loosens up, but for now I can’t see it getting to 120. Anyway, not that important; for now reliability and leak free driving is key.
I am not going to restrain myself from responding, mostly for the benefit of other readers who might be wondering, but I will try to be polite.
A 5 speed gearbox was available for later (short stroke) D engines, but not early long stroke engines like this one. There were two ratio sets, but neither offered gearing much taller than the 4 speed box. 4th in the 4 speed box is already an overdrive. The main benefit of the 5 speed box is closer ratios. But there is nothing wrong with the 4 speed box, particularly in early Dees. The ratios are well spaced and seem to go well with the engine characteristics. Third in particular is a very flexible gear.
More importantly, to gain a benefit from taller gearing you need the power to pull it. An early long-stroke D engine does not have the power to pull anything taller than the factory gave it.
Roger
A 5 speed gearbox was available for later (short stroke) D engines, but not early long stroke engines like this one. There were two ratio sets, but neither offered gearing much taller than the 4 speed box. 4th in the 4 speed box is already an overdrive. The main benefit of the 5 speed box is closer ratios. But there is nothing wrong with the 4 speed box, particularly in early Dees. The ratios are well spaced and seem to go well with the engine characteristics. Third in particular is a very flexible gear.
More importantly, to gain a benefit from taller gearing you need the power to pull it. An early long-stroke D engine does not have the power to pull anything taller than the factory gave it.
Roger
I worked out if my short stroke 2L (a mighty 88hp) could acheive the 6K redline in top (4th) gear it would be doing 135 mph.
Now just got to find a cliff to drive off.
Some cars just feel like they need an extra gear, my DS isn't one of them.
I could see the merit in a car like the Safari if you gained an extra gear without altering the overall gearing in top (5th) gear. Could be useful in hilly countryside heavily loaded?
Having said that they managed with 4 gears all those years ago heavily loaded so.
I've driven both 4 speed and later 5 speed Dees, including both the high and low ratio 5 speed boxes....... quite a lot.
Where the 5 speeds are good, is pottering around town. With the 4 speed, often 2nd is a bit low and 3rd a bit high, to just accelerate and pause and accelerate and corner etc in the one gear. 3rd in the 5 speed is really good for this.
On the open road with a 5 speed, I often find myself going 2nd to 4th, or 3rd to 5th. Maybe I'm just lazy.
Where the 5 speeds are good, is pottering around town. With the 4 speed, often 2nd is a bit low and 3rd a bit high, to just accelerate and pause and accelerate and corner etc in the one gear. 3rd in the 5 speed is really good for this.
On the open road with a 5 speed, I often find myself going 2nd to 4th, or 3rd to 5th. Maybe I'm just lazy.
I think I may have mentioned before on another thread how the torque curve on the 88hp engine is quite different to the other short stroke engines.
They hold maximum torque from 2500 to 3000 rpm, perfect for short shifting.
The same capacity 98hp version's torque curve rises sharply to the 3500rpm mark, then sharply falls away.
Mine will hold top gear over almost all of the hills around me as long as I remember to get the engine up to 3K before I reach the climb.
That way I can lose near 20kph of speed during the ascent while still being at maximum torque in top (2500 rpm).
I see your point.
If the 4 speeder is an overdrive, then it may be sufficient, but I would imagine the close ratio would still be a better choice for a fully loaded safari up a hill.
What is the bore x stroke of these (long stroke) engines?
78 mm bore
100 mm stroke
There is a reason why we call them long stroke!
The later engines were square or over-square.
Roger
100 mm stroke
There is a reason why we call them long stroke!
The later engines were square or over-square.
Roger
it looks magnificent, you must be pretty chuffed with the obsession!
Long indeed.
But not too bad. With a bore to stroke ratio of .78/1 there's still hope.
You wonder how the heck they managed to keep the compression so low with such a stroke, probably a combustion chamber the size of an airport hangar. I'm sure there's a lot of power to be found in this engine.
It is all in the flywheel. Nobody has mentioned the strangled Solex carburettor or the external inlet manifold "proper" DS ( Weber ) cylinder heads. Different characteristics, yet the original handbook states the most economical cruising speed for an ID was 70 miles per hour ... vastly superior to the Austin A40s and the Morris Minors/Majors of the period. There was something theatrical about passing a conventional OZ machine ( like say an FC Holden ) , and then placing the D in top gear with a flourish and an UPWARD ( pre 63 ) or DOWNWARD stroke of the gear lever.
The gear change patterns changed, anyone remember ?
The gear change patterns changed, anyone remember ?
Surely its not about potential power?
The Dee, in any of its forms, is capable of exceeding current speed limits on almost any road.
Very few Dees will be found in competition.
For most of us the real pleasure of driving them is in smooth, graceful, efficient, comfort.
The potential of surprising performance is understated and kept in reserve.
If you want to turn heads by screaming around suburban streets, laying rubber, roaring from the lights, guzzling fuel, and answering some questions to the police, you should get an old Charger or a Mustang.
This type of behavior is way, way below the style and mentality of a DS driver.
Oh Bob, You make me feel so superior.
There is also the passage of time, traffic density and road design and condition to be considered. Back in the early 70s I towed a 15 foot wooden framed alloy sheeted caravan with Ds. 13 inch wheels, crossply tyres and surge over ride drum brakes and all. Industry standard in the day. Front wheel drive considered a bit risky at the time, but for trailer boat towing the driven wheels were always on the dry part of the boat ramp.
The D chassis did the load carrying and braking superbly, but power wise .. well a different story, 4th being too high and 3rd too noisy and thirsty.
The demise of the hydro suspension can be laid at the feet of traffic density and so called consumer demand for stiff, "sporty" roll free springing to enable roundabouts to be handled at everyday .8 G speeds.
I am always amazed to see people even considering towing with a Traction.
I agree, a well maintained D can certainly keep up with modern highway traffic and speed limits. And still outbrake most of it.
it was also possible to SEE out of the things. That slim pillared design ( supposedly narrower than the distance between human eyes was the theory espoused at release time) has been forgotten, with modern A pillars more than a man's fist or leg in width.
There is also the passage of time, traffic density and road design and condition to be considered. Back in the early 70s I towed a 15 foot wooden framed alloy sheeted caravan with Ds. 13 inch wheels, crossply tyres and surge over ride drum brakes and all. Industry standard in the day. Front wheel drive considered a bit risky at the time, but for trailer boat towing the driven wheels were always on the dry part of the boat ramp.
The D chassis did the load carrying and braking superbly, but power wise .. well a different story, 4th being too high and 3rd too noisy and thirsty.
The demise of the hydro suspension can be laid at the feet of traffic density and so called consumer demand for stiff, "sporty" roll free springing to enable roundabouts to be handled at everyday .8 G speeds.
I am always amazed to see people even considering towing with a Traction.
I agree, a well maintained D can certainly keep up with modern highway traffic and speed limits. And still outbrake most of it.
it was also possible to SEE out of the things. That slim pillared design ( supposedly narrower than the distance between human eyes was the theory espoused at release time) has been forgotten, with modern A pillars more than a man's fist or leg in width.
The reserved, understated, leather-elbow-patched, pipe-smoking, Harris-tweed-jacketed gentleman that drives a DS .......... IS superior!
NOOOOOOOOOO
Must be bearded and wearing matching thongs.
Must be bearded and wearing matching thongs.