Christian's R10S

[c.lees]

How are you going to mount it? just drill / weld into / onto the block near enough where the mounts should be?

I think at least one of the holes lines up, I won't know until I put an engine cross member in. I have two so cutting one isn't a drama. If that fails I can make something from square tube, or make brackets that go from the cross member.


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[brettr]

Hey Christian,

You probably know this or have thought of this but i will just say it anyrate.

When you fab your engine mount it is really easy to build it so the engine isnt at the correct height because you get ahead of yourself - believe me i know! Like when you just fab to the engines currently sitting location it happens real easy! It cant be done in situ (properly).

You need to measure on your original 10 engine the distance between the crank centre and the top or bottom mounting hole of the engine mount brace while its on the block (straight line it between holes and dim between the crank bolt and line etc). Same should be done for width from crank centre.

And if you have a 336 diff centre going in widened 330 cases you can make the necessary mounting point width mods to your engine bracket during fab so you dont end up with a 5.5mm spacer on one side which allows the engine mount bottom torque stop formation to push on the engine mount bracket right out near its extents which have less frame support.

Then on your new engine fab the new engine bracket to the same mounting point height / width. This way your gearbox / axle / etc plane will be just as Renault designed it.

On the CA engine i was using newly fabbed engine mounts on the body as well so the only reference point i had for that was to line the crank centre bolt up with the crank start hole in the rear panel!

As i said you probably have already thought of this so apologies.

Your project looks very cool, glad to see another black sheep coming into the fray - imagine us one day on a drive day when the others are clearing flooded engines and filing burnt out points.

All we will have to contend with is a rod hanging out the side of the block - but what a way to go!

Wow - all the above seems like and awful lot of extraneous information that we could all do without. Sorry.

 

[c.lees]

Thanks for the info Brett. I'm hoping that at least one of the holes on the block is the same as the original block as the K series engines have a lot of common bolt locations with the CxJ engines. It should be fairly obvious when I put am old cross member in for reference otherwise I'll have to put another engine in and take some measurements as you have suggested.

Hey Christian,

You probably know this or have thought of this but i will just say it anyrate.

When you fab your engine mount it is really easy to build it so the engine isnt at the correct height because you get ahead of yourself - believe me i know! Like when you just fab to the engines currently sitting location it happens real easy! It cant be done in situ (properly).

You need to measure on your original 10 engine the distance between the crank centre and the top or bottom mounting hole of the engine mount brace while its on the block (straight line it between holes and dim between the crank bolt and line etc). Same should be done for width from crank centre.

And if you have a 336 diff centre going in widened 330 cases you can make the necessary mounting point width mods to your engine bracket during fab so you dont end up with a 5.5mm spacer on one side which allows the engine mount bottom torque stop formation to push on the engine mount bracket right out near its extents which have less frame support.

Then on your new engine fab the new engine bracket to the same mounting point height / width. This way your gearbox / axle / etc plane will be just as Renault designed it.

On the CA engine i was using newly fabbed engine mounts on the body as well so the only reference point i had for that was to line the crank centre bolt up with the crank start hole in the rear panel!

As i said you probably have already thought of this so apologies.

Your project looks very cool, glad to see another black sheep coming into the fray - imagine us one day on a drive day when the others are clearing flooded engines and filing burnt out points.

All we will have to contend with is a rod hanging out the side of the block - but what a way to go!

Wow - all the above seems like and awful lot of extraneous information that we could all do without. Sorry.

 

[brettr]

No probs Christian but if it comes to it you don't have to put the old engine in. Just put the original engine mount bracket on the old engine and take your dims off it in relation to the crank pulley bolt.

Then build the new mount bracket on your k series to the same dims in relation to its crank pulley bolt.

Forward or aft placement can be measured off the block to bell face.

You'll breeze through it I'm sure and I'm always here to confuse people, like the above.

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[Bowie]

Wait, aren't the engine mounts on these things up high near the head?

 

[c.lees]

Onto the rear engine mount. There are a few convenient holes in the bottom of the block. I trimmed a flange off the sump as I don't need it and it was in the way.

First to work out the engine level I measured the distance from an R10 mount to the crankshaft.

Next trim off the old mounts from the cross member. Bolt in car, well it interferes with the sump. So I spaced it out 30mm to check the engine position.

I had to lower the engine, my initial guess was a bit high.

Next problem, I can't just space it out as it's trying to rotate the rubber mounts. As the block is the same length thus the rubber mounts are in the correct spot. The plan is to modify the cross member by putting a step in it. I haven't decided if I'll bend it cutting in in the middle or cut in two spots and weld a step in. I've made a quick jig so it stays the correct shape. Once this is done I can look at making the engine mounts.

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[c.lees]

Rear engine mount cross member is done, it just needs engine mounts now. One end lifted and twisted a little when I undid the jig bolts but not enough to be concerned about, about 1mm.

It even fits. Now I know what you're saying, couldn't you just have put a 25mm spacer under each side, yes I could have but this is much cooler.

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[renault8&10]

Did you discuss this with your engineer?
You may have to prove your bone fides as a welder, or have it subjected to X-ray perhaps as part of compliance?

 

[c.lees]

It's not structural to the car as it's rubber mounted to the body. That's the theory I'm working on.

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[brettr]

Excellent Christian, no X-ray required.







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[c.lees]

One engine mount done. I dare say stronger then the original. Other side should be simpler.

Now the engine isn't held up by a jack I expected the suspension to compress. Still sitting high at the back, won't be able to put the straps on, any suggestions?

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[brettr]

One engine mount done. I dare say stronger then the original. Other side should be simpler.

Now the engine isn't held up by a jack I expected the suspension to compress. Still sitting high at the back, won't be able to put the straps on, any suggestions?

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Roll it backwards and forwards.

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[JohnW]

Swing axles..... Think about the geometry.

You could also just put a jack under the axle, one side at a time. That worked for me last month - I've all the car's panels attached of course, and fuel in the tank....

Cheers

 

[c.lees]

I did try rolling it, maybe not far enough.

 

[renault8&10]

I'd push it out of the shed and back in again at least, if not a few times.
I used to have to roll my R10 about 3m or so to settle the suspension when I took it down off a jack or axles stands.

 

[Bowie]

I should bring the 12 around whilst it's still going in and out[emoji14]

Looking good.

 

[Frans]

Christian,

My worth to this. I see you have new engine mountings. Not wanting to interfere, but with a little more power they are useless and won't last. On acceleration the motor is forced down at the back and there is a shearing action on the rubber that can't handle it. Why Renault made it like that boggles my mind. Even the gearbox mountings are useless compared to other cars with a simple setup where the weight is pushed onto the mounting and not sliced as per our Renaults.

With 2 pieces of angle iron you can easily make an everlasting rear mounting. Get 2 button mountings at a rubber shop for about $25.00 and you can keep your crossmember because the same holes are used.

These are my first ones made from 6mm aluminium angle but they where pulled apart. The aluminium wasn't strong enough. I made the second set from mild steel angles and they are still ok.

Regards, Frans.

 

[c.lees]

I should bring the 12 around whilst it's still going in and out[emoji14]

Looking good.

No hurry, it's not like it'll be done anytime soon. Unless you were considering the K4M upgrade for your 12.

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[c.lees]

Christian,

My worth to this. I see you have new engine mountings. Not wanting to interfere, but with a little more power they are useless and won't last. On acceleration the motor is forced down at the back and there is a shearing action on the rubber that can't handle it. Why Renault made it like that boggles my mind. Even the gearbox mountings are useless compared to other cars with a simple setup where the weight is pushed onto the mounting and not sliced as per our Renaults.

With 2 pieces of angle iron you can easily make an everlasting rear mounting. Get 2 button mountings at a rubber shop for about $25.00 and you can keep your crossmember because the same holes are used.

These are my first ones made from 6mm aluminium angle but they where pulled apart. The aluminium wasn't strong enough. I made the second set from mild steel angles and they are still ok.

Regards, Frans.

Frans, does the bolt go through that rubber or is it the type with a stud on either side bonded to the rubber?

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[brettr]

I don't completely agree that they don't work.

There is a long side and a short side. The rubber curl area. The long side goes down and will hit the boxed steel areas base with minimal movement before it engages. Probably brace between them on the bumper mounts if you stay with them.

I'm not having an issue yet with the supercharged engine.

But maybe these are the source of my vibration as I once hard mounted a 17 engine in an 8 and it feels the same the vibe I get?

I would definitely make sure they are new, and to add to the confusion frans's mounts are like virtually every other engine in that the weight sits on the mount, or atleast at 45 degrees or less. I can see their merit.

As a last note I opted for the standard engine mounts as I don't like modifying my car. Originality is king.



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