A110 Engine Knowledge Needed - Swaps/Upgrades etc..

L

Longlivekel

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Tadpole
Tadpole
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Nov 13, 2023
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United states
Hey Everyone!
I live in the United States and have a 1972 Dinalpin A110 with an 810-30 engine and 330-06 gearbox.
After poking through many of the forum posts here at AussieFrogs, I believe everyone's vast knowledge will be a great start in pointing me in the right direction for my future decisions.

I have owned the car for a little over a year and am underwhelmed by the not-so-impressive 810-30 engine performance (70hp?). It is sufficient for now and will do car things, but in the future, I would like to have a game plan to increase the performance. Since I am new to the Renault world, I am not too familiar with what engines would fit or what I could do to get 120+ horsepower.

Also, please keep in mind that this is just a street car, and needs to be reliable, and I would like to stick with carburetors.

With this being said, here are some questions to get the post going:
-What Renault engines would be an easy swap?
-Is there a different gearbox that would help the swap? (I am considering swapping my gearbox or rebuilding it in the future)
-Is there an easy crossflow head swap?
-Do any of the Lotus engines swap over?
-With a gearbox adapter plate, are there any suggested engines from other vehicles? (Such as 4age, amazing engine!)

Remember, I am just spitballing and would love to hear your suggestions!
Thanks, everyone!!
 
Welcome to Aussiefrogs Longlivekel, sounds like you have a pretty standard Dinalpin, guessing its a 1300VA. Mine started life as a 1973 1300VA.

Like everything in this world how deep are your pockets and how much do you want to spend?

Any of the Renault engines from the 70's era will fit mine has a 843 cross flow which was found in the R18 & R20.

There are five speed transaxles with upgraded internals available or you could stick with a the four speed and put R16 transaxle internals into your transaxle, again how much do you want to spend.

There are also brake upgrades available which are good idea if you are upgrading the performance of the engine.

If you follow what the factory did with the upgrades in the early 70's you can't go far wrong.

Could you post some pics of your car, if you click on the link in my signature you will see my car.
 
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Sam's Alpine A110 1600S !!!

Sam and I have been friends for about 5 years. He heard I worked on classic Renaults, and wanted a few things done on his Silver V85. I did quite a bit of work for him, a real tune up and re-set all the front suspension (mod the accident damaged LH front) He was very chuffed and has returned...
www.aussiefrogs.com

Problem with Aussie Frogs, search "R5 Alpine for Nauli's A110

Two cars that will give you ideas. Nauli is soon to have a Big4Speed, a 330 with 16TS internals, a quick and simple way to get a better gearbox

Attached is my new 1300 (810 type) Alconi motor, and my Big4Speed soon to be fitted.

Ray 20231202_122638.jpgAlconi 1 28-10-23.jpgAlconi 2 28-10-23.jpgAlconi 3 28-10-23.jpg
 
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Hi Kel and welcome.

There are quite a few of us North Americans here. Where in the US are you located? There are little pockets of knowledgeable people in various corners of the country.

I was in your shoes around 2019/2020 but with a FASA A110. As for upgrades, decide how much you would like to spend and go from there, just as COL has described. That will help everyone give you better advice on next steps and what pieces to source.
 
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Welcome to Aussie Frogs Kel.
My car is also a Dinalpin and started life as a white 1300. As per Ray's (aka Geckoeng) post above, I engade him to swap it over to a 1400 R5 Alpine engine.
The car is now blue after an extensive rebuild inside and out and it goes very nicely with the R5 Alpine engine. Also as the post above it will "soon" have a big 4 speed gearbox (when Ray gets around to it).
 
@COL
It is a 72 1300VA. How much HP does the 843 crossflow head get you? A 5-speed would be great if the gearing would lower the RPMs in 5th gear. Here in the Midwest USA I do a lot of 70-75mph speeds.
I will also post some pix to this response

@geckoeng
What benefits does the Big4Speed provide? Beefier or better gearing?
Also, what does the Alconi engine produce as in HP?

@monoposto
I live in Kansas City Missouri


@COL @monoposto
I have never owned a Renault (dreamed of an a110) and now here I am. With this being said I am not sure what various budgets can get you. I do understand that shipping engines from other countries can be quite pricey and you have to pay to play.
Maybe someone can chime in and provide some examples? Such as, what can a $3k-$5k USD range get you or a range of $6k-$10k USD range get you?
Does this sort of help?
Screenshot 2024-02-25 at 8.36.10 PM 1.jpg
Screenshot 2024-02-25 at 8.36.45 PM.jpg
 
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Longlivekel said:
@COL
It is a 72 1300VA. How much HP does the 843 crossflow head get you? A 5-speed would be great if the gearing would lower the RPMs in 5th gear. Here in the Midwest USA I do a lot of 70-75mph speeds.
I will also post some pix to this response

@geckoeng
What benefits does the Big4Speed provide? Beefier or better gearing?
Also, what does the Alconi engine produce as in HP?

@monoposto
I live in Kansas City Missouri


@COL @monoposto
I have never owned a Renault (dreamed of an a110) and now here I am. With this being said I am not sure what various budgets can get you. I do understand that shipping engines from other countries can be quite pricey and you have to pay to play.
Maybe someone can chime in and provide some examples? Such as, what can a $3k-$5k USD range get you or a range of $6k-$10k USD range get you?
Does this sort of help?View attachment 237434View attachment 237435
Click to expand...
Good looking car! I have a friend nearby with the very same spec Dinalpin.

Too bad you are far away from me as I'm in the PNW/Seattle area. I could connect you with a few good folks up here! But I'm sure someone knows someone in your neck of the woods.

I will try to keep this as organized as I can so you can reference later and others can add to or tell you why I'm wrong! ;)

The trouble with the cars that have the radiator in the back is you are essentially limited to the cleon fonte engine family. (688, 804, 812, 810, etc.) As opposed to the cleon alu (807, 843, etc) which are slightly longer and require a radiator in the front of the car. See my current thread (among others) for the work that goes into all of that if you like.

Regarding engine and gear box price I'll give you my reference point. This past June I purchased an 812 (gordini engine) and 353 (Renaults 5 speed gearbox) along with a junk Renault R8 (basically some rust and an engine/gearbox) for 5k. Quite frankly I got lucky finding these as they seem rather plentiful in Europe but more rare here in the states.

I've been rebuilding the gordini engine with the help of a local Renault guru who is well into his sunset years. I'm scared to look but, all told I've probably spent 3k just on parts to rebuild the bare block. I'm doing the work myself also as once these Renault gurus are gone I've got no one! So better to learn while I can. The good news is, these cars and engines are about as simple as you can get which helps a ton as there isn't a much nuance or weird tribal knowledge that you need to know. If you can assemble an old Chevy V8 you can build one of these engines no problem.

What would I do if I had to start all over and decided to keep the radiator in back? I would hunt down a complete R5 alpine/gordini cylinder head over in Europe or US, get it here, rebuild it. Simultaneously I would look for a C3J or equivalent engine (these came in the Renault alliance in 1.4l guise and somewhat plentiful here). There was a seller on ebay recently who had remanufactured C3J bottom ends for sale for like 600 shipped. If you're on facebook join the renault usa group. Someone always has a line on whatever part you may be after there.

I can't help much on the gearbox end as I haven't dug into those as much. BUT, you can convert the 330 to a 353... and as ray alluded to, you can build the 330 into a better gearbox. There is also a Hungarian dude who rebuilds Renault gearboxes and has quite a few for sale at somewhat exorbitant prices! (Imo)

I've only been at this a few years but others will chime in with more info, I'm just trying to give you the highlights from my experience.

Keep us posted on what you decide.
 
@monoposto
Your input is a good start! I really don’t feel like moving the radiator up front, so this helps me do some research on those motors listed above.
As for the other engines being longer, does an alloy radiator/electric fan combo help with the upgrade or are the engines that long?
Is there any other head swaps available out there?
Another question, would the rear radiator be an issue if I considered a carbed 4age? (Just an idea if I did an adapter plate)

As for my skill set, rebuilding classic or modern motors are not a problem for me. I always do my my own engine builds and body work.
 
Longlivekel said:
@monoposto
Your input is a good start! I really don’t feel like moving the radiator up front, so this helps me do some research on those motors listed above.
As for the other engines being longer, does an alloy radiator/electric fan combo help with the upgrade or are the engines that long?
Is there any other head swaps available out there?
Another question, would the rear radiator be an issue if I considered a carbed 4age? (Just an idea if I did an adapter plate)

As for my skill set, rebuilding classic or modern motors are not a problem for me. I always do my my own engine builds and body work.
Click to expand...
Good. Youre diy'er which is the type of owner these cars require. Atleast in the US.

Those are questions that someone with more experience will need to give you info for. I think the issue with the aluminum engines is that there just isn't much space in the back of our cars. IMO the engine bay gets way too hot for my liking so it is a personal preference for me to move the radiator up front.

I will say there is a thread kicking around here with either an A110 or was it an R8? That had a 4age swapped. So it is possible and has crossed my mind as well. ;)

For cylinder head swaps, there also happens to be a thread on that but you will need to do a search for them as I can't recall the title for either of the threads.
 
Longlivekel said:
@COL
It is a 72 1300VA. How much HP does the 843 crossflow head get you? A 5-speed would be great if the gearing would lower the RPMs in 5th gear. Here in the Midwest USA I do a lot of 70-75mph speeds.
I will also post some pix to this response

@geckoeng
What benefits does the Big4Speed provide? Beefier or better gearing?
Also, what does the Alconi engine produce as in HP?

@monoposto
I live in Kansas City Missouri


@COL @monoposto
I have never owned a Renault (dreamed of an a110) and now here I am. With this being said I am not sure what various budgets can get you. I do understand that shipping engines from other countries can be quite pricey and you have to pay to play.
Maybe someone can chime in and provide some examples? Such as, what can a $3k-$5k USD range get you or a range of $6k-$10k USD range get you?
Does this sort of help?View attachment 237434View attachment 237435
Click to expand...
That is a nice looking car, pretty much the same body as mine.

Here are a couple of links so that you can get a feel for what is available and prices, both are in Europe one German and the other French. These are Alpine specialist.

www.simon-auto-shop.de

Alpine A110

www.simon-auto-shop.de www.simon-auto-shop.de

www.mecaparts.com

A110 / A108 / A106 - Mecaparts

www.mecaparts.com www.mecaparts.com

There is also a couple of specialist magazines available for these cars:

Mille Miles:

www.aboriva.com

ABORIVA - Plateforme d'abonnement et d'achat au numéro du groupe RIVA

Bienvenue sur la plateforme d'abonnement et d'achat au numéro du groupe RIVA
www.aboriva.com www.aboriva.com

Berlinette:

www-berlinettemagazine-com.translate.goog

Berlinette Magazine, pour les passionnés Alpine et Renault sportives

Berlinette Magazine, au cœur de votre fascination pour les Alpine et Renault sportives. Abonnez-vous et postez vos Petites Annonces.
www-berlinettemagazine-com.translate.goog www-berlinettemagazine-com.translate.goog
 
monoposto said:
Good looking car! I have a friend nearby with the very same spec Dinalpin.

Too bad you are far away from me as I'm in the PNW/Seattle area. I could connect you with a few good folks up here! But I'm sure someone knows someone in your neck of the woods.

I will try to keep this as organized as I can so you can reference later and others can add to or tell you why I'm wrong! ;)

The trouble with the cars that have the radiator in the back is you are essentially limited to the cleon fonte engine family. (688, 804, 812, 810, etc.) As opposed to the cleon alu (807, 843, etc) which are slightly longer and require a radiator in the front of the car. See my current thread (among others) for the work that goes into all of that if you like.

Regarding engine and gear box price I'll give you my reference point. This past June I purchased an 812 (gordini engine) and 353 (Renaults 5 speed gearbox) along with a junk Renault R8 (basically some rust and an engine/gearbox) for 5k. Quite frankly I got lucky finding these as they seem rather plentiful in Europe but more rare here in the states.

I've been rebuilding the gordini engine with the help of a local Renault guru who is well into his sunset years. I'm scared to look but, all told I've probably spent 3k just on parts to rebuild the bare block. I'm doing the work myself also as once these Renault gurus are gone I've got no one! So better to learn while I can. The good news is, these cars and engines are about as simple as you can get which helps a ton as there isn't a much nuance or weird tribal knowledge that you need to know. If you can assemble an old Chevy V8 you can build one of these engines no problem.

What would I do if I had to start all over and decided to keep the radiator in back? I would hunt down a complete R5 alpine/gordini cylinder head over in Europe or US, get it here, rebuild it. Simultaneously I would look for a C3J or equivalent engine (these came in the Renault alliance in 1.4l guise and somewhat plentiful here). There was a seller on ebay recently who had remanufactured C3J bottom ends for sale for like 600 shipped. If you're on facebook join the renault usa group. Someone always has a line on whatever part you may be after there.

I can't help much on the gearbox end as I haven't dug into those as much. BUT, you can convert the 330 to a 353... and as ray alluded to, you can build the 330 into a better gearbox. There is also a Hungarian dude who rebuilds Renault gearboxes and has quite a few for sale at somewhat exorbitant prices! (Imo)

I've only been at this a few years but others will chime in with more info, I'm just trying to give you the highlights from my experience.

Keep us posted on what you decide.
Click to expand...
I have also taken the 810 block and bored it's base out to the 812 spec's to accept the larger 76 pistons from the 1.4 engines the 810 block can be modified to accept the alpine cross flow heads as well . If you travel the route of a 1.4 engine from alliance you will need to modify the oil pan or get a r5 pan because the alliance engine being front wheel drive has a slanted pan due to the engine is rolled to the side in car . You will also need the fly wheel because it runs a bigger bolt pattern on the crank . The alliance block is the preferred one to get if you choose to go the 1.4 route
because it still has the rear mounting tabs where the R5 has them cut off . When it comes to gear box ratio's as mentioned the R16 336 box has better road gear ratio's and is the donor for an internal big box upgrade for the 330 case with a few mod's made to accept its internals and heavier stub axle splines . Hope this is helpful !
 
@COL
Thanks for the links. I also buy my parts from www.arnaudventouxpieces.com/en since they do online purchase orders and fast shipping to US.

Oh yeah, the reason I mentioned the Lotus Elan motor earlier was due to them existing in the States. Not sure if they are just as long as the Alu blocks, but they did have a range of 90-130hp. Has anyone seen this type of conversion?
Screenshot 2024-02-26 at 7.28.38 AM.png
 
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Greetings from a Midwestern Renault addict. I have been modifying an R8 over the last several years. In the process I built a 1.4 c3J motor with an Alpine crossflow head and dual Webers. The motor made about 90hp at the rear wheels on a dyno. After a couple of years I got the itch and am now building a version of the R5 GT turbo motor to replace the Alpine unit. So the Alpine motor is potentially for sale. I also have a spare modified Alpine crossflow head available.

As for transmissions, Steve Swan (@dauphproto on here) is the go-to guy for modified Renault boxes. I have one of his custom 5-spd boxes in my 8. The parts he uses to convert a 330 box to a 5-spd are getting hard to find, but he might still be able to do one for you. I paid $2500 for mine which was a used unit. Steve is in the UK so shipping cost is an issue.

Let me know if you'd like more details on the Alpine motor. I'm in Cincinnati, so not too far away from Missouri.

Beautiful A110 car by the way. I'd love to own one but they're beyond my price range!
 
Longlivekel said:
@manicgt
Very helpful info!
As for modifying the block to accept a cross-flow head, what does that entail and what would the end result be in horsepower?
Click to expand...
The older 812 cross flow heads has a rocker arm configuration that requires some small notches cut into the block to allow the pushrod angle if it is not already the 812 block . This will allow the push rods not to hit or rub against block. Not difficult to do ! The 812 cam uses a 22mm lifter where the 810 uses the 19mm lifter as does the r5 and alliance 1.4 blocks . To gain the clearance on the 19mm lifters you may need to shorten them by 2mm so push rod does not hit the upper portion of the lifter because of the pushrod angle on the 812 rockers on the heads . The 1.4 block is built heavier and uses the same size as the 1565 cc aluminum engines main bearings ie R16 807 motors they also use the same bolt pattern for the fly wheel . If conversion is to be made the cam for the 812 will be needed as well because the lobe orientation is different than the wedge head engine . The other mod needed is the the distributor extension to clear the intake manifold . I think I have mention most mods needed for the 812 set up if you go the R5 alpine setup not sure what is all required since I have only worked with the 812 stuff . This info is from memory and I think I have cover most of the stuff needed to be considered if you proceed with a 812 head swap . As a passing note the 810 motors can also see a boost in power by bumping compression and a good performance cam the R8S that was sold here in Canada was also a sporty drive with the 2 barrel downdraft Weber system . The Manic 810 auto blu kits on the 810 motor claimed to be 95 horse power ??!! hope this is helpful !!??
 
Longlivekel said:
@COL
Thanks for the links. I also buy my parts from www.arnaudventouxpieces.com/en since they do online purchase orders and fast shipping to US.

Oh yeah, the reason I mentioned the Lotus Elan motor earlier was due to them existing in the States. Not sure if they are just as long as the Alu blocks, but they did have a range of 90-130hp. Has anyone seen this type of conversion?View attachment 237454
Click to expand...
The Lotus Elan engine is a Ford twin cam which came from motor sport versions Ford Escort and Cortina. You would most likely need a different bell housing or an adapter plate to use that engine. I have not seen a Ford twin cam engine in an Alpine, but can't see any reason why it can't be done.
 
The Renault Lotus Ford Bellhousing is longer than the Renault item, it's going to get real tight in there. Staying all Renault is a No-brainer here, unless you could stretch to a BDG
 
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