Victorian Fuel pricing trends Versus Queensland or other states.

What does the ACCC do? If you find out let beef producers know. Beef is sold like French car parts. Doesn't cost much to buy but sold for any price you feel like. ACCC couldn't find anything wrong with the way the supermarkets were buying and selling it or collusion between the meat company buyers.
Memory is a funny thing. I recall war in Iraq, an oil price much higher than now and a fuel price for unleaded in the 80 cents. Must cost an awful lot more to refine now.
Using refineries in Singapore? There's an idea some smart young executive has come up with. You can store oil long term but not petrol. An earlier generation with memories of war was almost obsessive in having large oil storages in this country. Now of course war is unthinkable. If it ever becomes thinkable we would not be in a happy position.
 
I wouldn’t choose gas for home heating .
The writing was on the wall when the Gladstone export terminal was approved......plus the NW shelf export terminal coming online.
It simply a matter of supply and demand trading.
Pity those who bought one of the dedicated gas Holden and Fords......and how many converters are left......converting what?.



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It is LPG either straight from the well or your barbecue cylinder.

DoubleChevron said:
I think you are confusing CNG with LPG. I'm pretty sure Australia imports its LPG! CNG requires big heavy tanks with a very small capacity. That is why it has never been used in australia (even though we have billions of gallons of the stuff).

seeya,
Shane L.
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Shane
You are falling for the same confusion that alexander had. He didn't think that there was any link between Natural Gas and oilfield gas and that butane and Propane were some wonder ingredients that were more costly to introduce.
Quoting from BP's own textbook files.

Natural gas, which is produced in association with oil and which has been separated from it in the Normal way, is "wet", that is contains an appreciable portion of heavier gaseous hydrocarbons up to an including pentane. The practice nowadays is to remove those constituents that can be liquefied and kept as liquids under pressure. These products are known as "Liquefied Petroleum Gas" or L.P.G. in the United States and in this country are sold under trade names such as "Calorgas" and "Butagas". The abstraction of propane, butane and pentane from the wet natural gas is accomplished usually by compressing the gas, cooling it and then allowing it to expand. the additional cooling obtained by this expansion will liquify these components, leaving only the methane, ethane and some of the propane to pass on in the gaseous state to the gas pipeline system. The liquefied gas may be separated into its individual components propane and butane by fractionalisation and recompression and put into suitable containers for the market, as described in more detail in a later chapter. It should be added that the pentanes and some butanes, in a mixture which can exist as a liquid under atmospheric pressure at normal temperatures, will also be recovered in the fractionating process
If you look up CNG you will see that this was a marketing effort some years back as bulk containers at Service Stations were serviced by bulk tanker supply and you could fill your vehicles with CNG or as it is more commonly known "L.P.G.":wink2:

There is a difference in vapour pressure of a gas and this relies on the pressure necessary to maintain the gas as a liquid at any given temperature the vapour pressures of butane and propane differ considerably.(also from BP)

Vapour pressure at 32 degree F. o psi for butane 50 psi for propane
Vapour pressure at 60 degree F. 12 psi for butane 90 psi for propane
Vapour pressure at 100 degree F. 37 psi for butane 172 psi for propane.

In cold countries with temperatures below freezing point no gas will issue from a butane bottle on opening the valve, whereas at the same temperatures the pressure inside a propane bottle may be up to 50 p.s.i above atmosphere. Hence propane or highly propanised mixture is preferred for domestic use in Northern Europe, but in hot countries-

Southern Europe or the tropics butane alone is preferred because of the lower pressures generated at the higher ambient temperature; this enables less strong and hence lighter bottles to be used. Propane storage vessels must always be stronger than those needed for butane and so are heavier and more costly.

So really most gas in Australia is butane but all are loosely grouped under the term Liquefied Petroleum Gas or LPG, the rest is marketing and regulator safety speak :nownow: and gives opportunity for adjusting the mystery mixture that will market one as better, economical, speedy, good for your vehicle etc. than the other an opportunity to achieve high price margins by confusing with marketing speak.:)

Generally if you are using LPG for specialist oxy cutting of steel the LPG will contain mostly propane and by using an oxy propane cutting torch, steel is readily cut.

For the hobbyist Butane in liquefied form is economical and does the job and if you ask for LPG gas in your cooking barbecue that is what you will get. Just what the truck and cars get..:wink2:

Ken
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Origin assures me that the large domestic gas bottles I have bought contain propane, and that service station fuel may be a mixture.
 
seasink said:
Origin assures me that the large domestic gas bottles I have bought contain propane, and that service station fuel may be a mixture.
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Propane is one "step" of the fractionating column below butane. The physical properties of the two are nearly identical. And the calorific value is nearly the same too.

The major difference is boiling point.
 
Your fuel bill, any noticeable difference this week...

Ah its all LPG, the mix is the mystery ingredient that makes it profitable by marketing much like special diesel and truck diesel, one might smell better and if you can convince the customer to pay more, it is worth doing:wink2:. But in extreme cold and for specialist work you may need higher propane content.:) in your LPG.:)

Melbourne fuel is getting more expensive by the day, was too wet and cold to bother so I filled with local BP at 135.9/Litre but did bypass the shell outlet that had it at 141.9 a litre and the BP outlet at 145.9 but saw lots of affluent motorists lining up to pay through the nose.

Ulp was shown as 129.9 at my local BP and LPG 74.9 which is way too high, but then who cares when many get their fuel paid for in their company car, or drive a government car, plenty of lurks and perks these days. I contributed $6.20 in GST to the government so I am paying part of some ones salary I guess.

Hope someone is getting cheap fuel somewhere. Was it cheap during the Queensland Election ? and up or down since the election.?

:cheers:

Ken:)
 
Made me look at last months fuel bill that just came. ULP 1.44.9, diesel 1.39 but there is a tax rebate on diesel used off road.
 
Less than a buck for E10, that's cheap.
Unfortunately here in Queensland the E10 tends to be 2 cents/litre cheaper than ULP and last week-end, depending on when you look, it's been between 1.35/ltr to about 1.42 for ULP plus the usual premiums for 95 and 98.
But given that you burn about 10% more E10 than straight petrol, it works out more expensive and all one is effectively is paying a cane farmer (or the processor) for the ethanol and using the same amount of fossil fuel.
A disturbing trend is that a lot of the 95RON pumps are being converted to E10 and a couple of filling stations I've been to don't have 95RON fuel at all, so the offer is ULP, E10, or 98RON.
 
REN TIN TIN said:
Less than a buck for E10, that's cheap.
Unfortunately here in Queensland the E10 tends to be 2 cents/litre cheaper than ULP and last week-end, depending on when you look, it's been between 1.35/ltr to about 1.42 for ULP plus the usual premiums for 95 and 98.
But given that you burn about 10% more E10 than straight petrol, it works out more expensive and all one is effectively is paying a cane farmer (or the processor) for the ethanol and using the same amount of fossil fuel.
A disturbing trend is that a lot of the 95RON pumps are being converted to E10 and a couple of filling stations I've been to don't have 95RON fuel at all, so the offer is ULP, E10, or 98RON.
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I can’t separate the supposed difference in economy from personal experience over 6000 kms, and being a substitute for PULP at 20-30c/L less I’m more than satisfied.


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95 RON is an artificially jacked up price used to be 5 cents over ULP!

REN TIN TIN said:
Less than a buck for E10, that's cheap.
Unfortunately here in Queensland the E10 tends to be 2 cents/litre cheaper than ULP and last week-end, depending on when you look, it's been between 1.35/ltr to about 1.42 for ULP plus the usual premiums for 95 and 98.
But given that you burn about 10% more E10 than straight petrol, it works out more expensive and all one is effectively is paying a cane farmer (or the processor) for the ethanol and using the same amount of fossil fuel.
A disturbing trend is that a lot of the 95RON pumps are being converted to E10 and a couple of filling stations I've been to don't have 95RON fuel at all, so the offer is ULP, E10, or 98RON.
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Thanks for that observation REN TIN TIN

I find these days 95 RON fuel price that used to be a five cent margin per litre over ULP, but as it became a more popular fuel of choice, due to many imported cars (including my Laguna) recommended to run on a minimum of 95, it suddenly took over as a higher priced fuel, with a creep to 10 cent "premium" margin and in extreme cases 15 to 20 cent margins, which is a real rip off if ever there was one.

I actually declined to fill with 95 at those rip off prices after finding that if I used 98 or 100 RON fuel I got much better mileage per tank and by watching the pump price closely I could find retailers with a lower percentage margin especially in the Country towns. :approve:

In some, the service stations would use the industry excuse of "Competition" (read that as artificial industry pushed price hike cycle):evil: as a reason to hike prices on ULP and 95, by 15 to 25 cents highs but didn't immediately jump the 98, perhaps because it either had an already padded in comfortable margin at the lowest price "cycle" or their users might suddenly question the added high cost.:nownow:

Many 1980's cars seemed to run better when filled with a tank of 98, especially if they had re-breather systems that recycled the aromatic vapour additives promoted in the 98 and 100 premium advertising. I noticed that "performance improvement" in using those fuels in the Fuego and so did others on this forum. It seemed worth the 10 cents over base grade fuels, but add 25 or 30 cents and ones consumer base might well question that jumped up price hike!:eek:.

Most of us adopted a full tank to full tank filling routine, as we enjoyed our cars, could afford the cost and it was so much easier to check the impact of hiked price rises on the personal budget. IMHO!:wink2:

If you operated more than one vehicle and they had different fuel needs, you could fill at the lowest price and alternate between vehicles to avoid filling at rip off pricing. We did, so we could, but I was always cognisant that others less fortunate could not, hence my trenchant opposition to oil companies using computerized industry data as a marketing tool to maintain a higher than normal "average" price across their fuel range while promoting the overall as some sort of motorists driven competition, when clearly it was not!.

I have not regularly used E10 but did fill once at one of those NSW Manildra? Service stations that sold ethanol from the pump, mileage per tank was much less than I achieved on other fuels :eek:. Those ethanol stations seem to have gone by the wayside since.

I did toy with the idea of converting one vehicle to run on LPG, but glad now that I didn't, as that seems to be a grossly over priced product now, but others that regularly fill with LPG may see that in a different user perspective. :)

Diesel underpins most of the delivery and commerce in Australia and there appears to be a big push to pad out Diesel pricing to a more comfortable (for the oil industry) retail pricing level (and with the ACCC tacit approval it seems) that has been achieved in the metropolitan areas though I see signs that Shell is sometimes offering lower than their preferred price where their competition undersells them.

Huge rises in prices paid for Diesel in the trucking industry, will of course be passed on in the form of higher prices on consumer goods (where firms can) and one needs to closely monitor the margin pricing between Truck Diesel and so called premium or special Diesel pricing as margin creep and marketing already disclose higher margins in the industry.

Interesting as a consumer to closely watch the fuel marketing and pricing.

Regards

Ken:)
 
Seeing I currently get 18-19km/L (51-53 mpg) on E10/94/95 I would assume 21 km/L would be achievable.
The first 5000kms on PULP95 (fill>fill always) gave me EXACTLY the same km/L.
My significantly smaller and lighter 308 1.2 6A never exceeded 21km/L over 39,000kms using PULP95 always on a similar fill>fill basis.
ODOs on both were extremely accurate too.
21 on the C4P would be only a dream. But I never drive aggressively or drag anything when possibly PULP would show up as more economical.
I rarely use anything other than United either and it says “a maximum of 10% ethanol...........hmmm


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I did try E10 exclusively in my 6 CYL Magna a few years ago.
I recorded the odometer readings and the amount of fuel for each fill, always full - full.
This was for about 6 months and my experience was that the MPG was about 10% or more worse with the E10 on about 75% city driving and 25% highway.
So it was actually costing me more to use E10 than standard ULP (The Magna was tuned to run on 91RON).
When I switched back to ULP the MPG returned to normal (bad as it was).
Might be my imagination but I thought the car ran hotter on E10 too. The temperature gauge seemed to sit a frag higher, nothing to worry about but noticible and I could be wrong.

E10 vs 95RON might be a different story, there should be savings there even with the reduced mileage.

But if you do the math, if your mileage is reduced by 10% you will still be burning the same amount of fossil fuel to travel a certain distance but burning some ethanol as well.

The Manildra group were(are), among other things, a sugar refiner hence the ethanol tie-up.

(Today ULP is about 1.43/ltr at the filling stations I passed on the way to work).
 
Slightly outside the box - but may be of interest: fuel prices in New Zealand.

Was there for a 5 days last week - observed the fuel prices (and was glad to have an economical rental vehicle). Mid week prices were $1.99 for 91 RON, $1.46 for Diesel. By Sunday that had gone to anywhere between $2.02 and $2.12 for 91 RON, diesel price stable.

Glad I'm not driving there regularly with those prices!

Ian.
 
Arrived in Auckland today and thankfully have been picked up by father-in-law so not needing to buy fue,l 91 RON $1.22 on a Thursday ouch!! and the Kiwi peso is pretty matched with Oz currency. Just another reason I'm not in a hurry to move back, of course no job prospects as well but that's another story!!

IWS said:
Slightly outside the box - but may be of interest: fuel prices in New Zealand.

Was there for a 5 days last week - observed the fuel prices (and was glad to have an economical rental vehicle). Mid week prices were $1.99 for 91 RON, $1.46 for Diesel. By Sunday that had gone to anywhere between $2.02 and $2.12 for 91 RON, diesel price stable.

Glad I'm not driving there regularly with those prices!

Ian.
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Just back from Adelaide where I jammed in 46L of E10/95@116.9 ($53.77) after 803kms.
Return trip now only just under half full after ~ 730kms and I’ll be filling up in Broady again @119.9.
Very hot but normal temps and sweet as.
What’s not to like?.


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It appears the commissioning of the Gladstone export terminal has effectively put the skids under LPG as an economic substitution for petrol, with export pricing forcing up the local product.
The loss of dedicated Ford/Holden gas cars was the other factor in it’s demise of course.
It started in Melbourne and will probably cease there last.


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Is fuel expensive?

Diesel pricing tends to remain fairly stable around Newcastle. So the going rate at one of the Woolworths Caltex outlets recently has been $130.7. This comes down to $122.7 with the 8c discount. A bonus is that it is premium diesel (Vortex)

At the same time, a nearby Shell is selling Premium Unleaded for $1.734.

Now, if you are paying $1.227 per litre for premium diesel, you would probably think fuel is reasonably priced. On the other hand, if you are paying $1.734 (41% more) for your fuel, then you would no doubt say it is expensive. As a bonus, the vehicle using the lower priced product is often more fuel efficient
 
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