Tool Talk

[Stuey]

Crocodile Dundee of hand drills

That's not a drill...THIS is a drill...

Picked up a nice drill from my Dad...this beauty is a Wolf Sapphire made in UK, 1.025Kw job which has drilled two holes in its 40 year life. He bought it when we were going opal mining way back in the 70's but we pulled out of the idea (to drill explosives holes).

Four speed 500, 600, 870, 1025 rpm and a 19mm chuck. The one next to it is my 10mm Makita drill. The front housing is an aluminium alloy gearbox.

An arm breaker, I'd expect. The apparently used appearance is just grease off the chuck. It's basically unused. Good for mixing cement?

Cheers

Stuey

 

[robmac]

That's not a drill...THIS is a drill...

Picked up a nice drill from my Dad...this beauty is a Wolf Sapphire made in UK, 1.025Kw job which has drilled two holes in its 40 year life. He bought it when we were going opal mining way back in the 70's but we pulled out of the idea (to drill explosives holes).

Four speed 500, 600, 870, 1025 rpm and a 19mm chuck. The one next to it is my 10mm Makita drill. The front housing is an aluminium alloy gearbox.

An arm breaker, I'd expect. The apparently used appearance is just grease off the chuck. It's basically unused. Good for mixing cement?

Cheers

Stuey

With a 500RPM chuck speed it would be ideal for pushing hole saws.

I would probably be safest with two operators or in a drill press!

 

[alexander]

I suspect it is quality of the screws/ drivers that make your kit better than others. Robinson system has been around for a long time, simply not popular in Australia.

i had never heard of them, but found them when i did some handyman stuff for a friend in nyc about 5 years ago. i dont know if the quality of the tool makes the difference; the obvious advantage is that the driver simply cannot slip off the screw. how many times have you ruined a philips head screw driving it in with a power driver! i also like that you can stick a screw onto the driver and it wont fall off. very handy. i am going to endeavour to buy only robertson head screws from now on.

interesting that bunnings have them. unless i am mistaken, they seem to have expanded their range of metric nuts and bolts considerably. about bloody time!! over 40 years since metrification, and you typical hardware shop has thousands of AF fasteners, and the metric ones are in the 'specialty fasteners' rack down that back.

 

[DoubleChevron]

That's not a drill...THIS is a drill...

Picked up a nice drill from my Dad...this beauty is a Wolf Sapphire made in UK, 1.025Kw job which has drilled two holes in its 40 year life. He bought it when we were going opal mining way back in the 70's but we pulled out of the idea (to drill explosives holes).

Four speed 500, 600, 870, 1025 rpm and a 19mm chuck. The one next to it is my 10mm Makita drill. The front housing is an aluminium alloy gearbox.

An arm breaker, I'd expect. The apparently used appearance is just grease off the chuck. It's basically unused. Good for mixing cement?

Cheers

Stuey

I have the "vintage" sister to that drill ............................. I'm to bloody scared to use i though. If the drill bit grabs, I'll start spinning :roflmao:

seeya,
Shane L.

 

[wombat200]

That's not a drill...THIS is a drill...

Picked up a nice drill from my Dad...this beauty is a Wolf Sapphire made in UK, 1.025Kw job which has drilled two holes in its 40 year life. He bought it when we were going opal mining way back in the 70's but we pulled out of the idea (to drill explosives holes).

Four speed 500, 600, 870, 1025 rpm and a 19mm chuck. The one next to it is my 10mm Makita drill. The front housing is an aluminium alloy gearbox.

An arm breaker, I'd expect. The apparently used appearance is just grease off the chuck. It's basically unused. Good for mixing cement?

Cheers

Stuey

Back when I built boats for a living (proper boats, IE wooden ones!), the old bloke next to me used a drill like that to drill stern tube bores in the timber...... He used it on his own, but then, he was a former mid-weight boxer at commonwealth games level & had arms like tree trunks, even in his 60's........

 

[Stuey]

Yeah, my old fella was like that too. He was literally the 'bend a six inch nail with bare hands' type of guy. One of the strongest blokes I've met.

I'll probably mainly use it just when I need a bigger chuck than my other drills but not for drilling where it might catch. Or for mixing tile cement in a bucket...

Shane, haven't been on AF much lately, so old news, but love that shed. And particularly the lathe. Always wanted one. The old man was a fitter and turner in the BMC factory at Longbridge, so could show me a thing or two.

Stuey

 

[robmac]

i had never heard of them, but found them when i did some handyman stuff for a friend in nyc about 5 years ago. i dont know if the quality of the tool makes the difference; the obvious advantage is that the driver simply cannot slip off the screw. how many times have you ruined a philips head screw driving it in with a power driver! i also like that you can stick a screw onto the driver and it wont fall off. very handy. i am going to endeavour to buy only robertson head screws from now on.

interesting that bunnings have them. unless i am mistaken, they seem to have expanded their range of metric nuts and bolts considerably. about bloody time!! over 40 years since metrification, and you typical hardware shop has thousands of AF fasteners, and the metric ones are in the 'specialty fasteners' rack down that back.

To be honest, I can't see the need to introduce "another" system into Oz. Many of the bigger screws have hex drive drive heads already. Most people have a set of hex keys and power bits for hex drive.

WTF introduce another system of Robinson square drive? I can't see that a square drive has many/any advantages over hex.

Beware of Bunnings "metric" fasteners. I had a batch of nuts from them (used for verandah rail) which were so oversize that they wouldn't grip on bolts purchased from a real bolt place. (I short ordered and needed some nuts on Sunday) Guess what they were even looser fit on Bunnings bolts. Bloody disgrace.

I buy bolts from a fastener supplier, pay a bit more and get a quality within spec product.

The loose bolts at Bunnings are just cheap crap IMHO.

 

[alexander]

To be honest, I can't see the need to introduce "another" system into Oz. Many of the bigger screws have hex drive drive heads already. Most people have a set of hex keys and power bits for hex drive.

WTF introduce another system of Robinson square drive? I can't see that a square drive has many/any advantages over hex.

Beware of Bunnings "metric" fasteners. I had a batch of nuts from them (used for verandah rail) which were so oversize that they wouldn't grip on bolts purchased from a real bolt place. (I short ordered and needed some nuts on Sunday) Guess what they were even looser fit on Bunnings bolts. Bloody disgrace.

I buy bolts from a fastener supplier, pay a bit more and get a quality within spec product.

The loose bolts at Bunnings are just cheap crap IMHO.

i realise some very large screws are available as hex drive, but your choice for the usual range of wood and metal screws is slotted or philips, and they really are just useless. the driver doesn't stop on the screw, the heads break off easily and the philips are easy to strip out (alot).

IF hex was available for all screws, then that would be fine, but it is not. note also that if you are going to seriously use hex headed screws, you will need to buy a screwdriver tool anyway. i dont think i would be messing around with L shaped allen keys! where robertson drive is used, the full range of screws is available. having used them, i feel that robertson drive has some advantages over hex anyway. the head of the drive has a slight taper on it. that makes it very easy to fit into the screw, but jams very tightly when you push on it. getting small hex keys into place takes a little bit of fiddling. minor, yes, but if you are driving a lot of screws in, it will make a difference. ideally, hex or robertson should just replace slotted/philips/posidrive altogether (obviously not going to happen). you dont personally need to worry about another system being introduced; you just need to buy what works, and bear in mind that one driver covers the full range of screws.

agreed about bunnings fasteners generally. they are just hopeless! but, as noted on another occasion, we all find ourselves back there all the time, so what can you say!?

 

[Roger Wilkinson]

one driver covers the full range of screws.

There are several sizes of Robertson bit.

Roger

 

[robmac]

i realise some very large screws are available as hex drive, but your choice for the usual range of wood and metal screws is slotted or philips, and they really are just useless. the driver doesn't stop on the screw, the heads break off easily and the philips are easy to strip out (alot).

IF hex was available for all screws, then that would be fine, but it is not. note also that if you are going to seriously use hex headed screws, you will need to buy a screwdriver tool anyway. i dont think i would be messing around with L shaped allen keys! where robertson drive is used, the full range of screws is available. having used them, i feel that robertson drive has some advantages over hex anyway. the head of the drive has a slight taper on it. that makes it very easy to fit into the screw, but jams very tightly when you push on it. getting small hex keys into place takes a little bit of fiddling. minor, yes, but if you are driving a lot of screws in, it will make a difference. ideally, hex or robertson should just replace slotted/philips/posidrive altogether (obviously not going to happen). you dont personally need to worry about another system being introduced; you just need to buy what works, and bear in mind that one driver covers the full range of screws.

agreed about bunnings fasteners generally. they are just hopeless! but, as noted on another occasion, we all find ourselves back there all the time, so what can you say!?

I went through this "problem" with (hex- wrong) phillip -correct drivers in battery drills breaking screws and chewing out the bits and screws. This was when I had a business with a few crews of of technicians installing electronic security and ancillary systems.

Rather than take what they said for gospel, I went out in the field and did installs for a couple weeks.

The problems I found were largely:

• Rooted phillips driver tips
  
• Battery drills with the clutch left to set "drill" ie no clutch action
  
• 40mm Needle point screws (or the first screw fished out of the bag) used fix 3mm thick material to everthing from pine to jarra and red gum.
  
• Needle point screws used to drill through 1mm m/s boxes and then to the wall fixing
  
• A mixture of posidrive and No2 phillips in most techicians kits

So we took the following steps:

• Tossed out all the screw mixtures
  
• Tossed out every chuck secured drill tip
  
• Purchased purpose built screw driver drills with hex driver without a lockable clutch
  
• Purchase a selection of screw lengths with the "grey" lubricant covering from a reputable supplier
  
• Purchased the drivers which have low cost replaceble tips and fit the hex of the electric driver

All problems went away. No more broken screws or chewed tips. I still believe hex drive is fine. If there are problems it the wrong application , operator laziness or error and/or poor quality fasteners.

 

[alexander]

. I still believe hex drive is fine. If there are problems it the wrong application , operator laziness or error and/or poor quality fasteners.

i agree with that, and would be roughly indifferent between hex and robertson. it is the frigging slotted and philips that are really inferior, and i if there is a good range of small to medium sized screws with hex drive heads, i have just never noticed them. the nuance is that the feel in the hand of using a robertson type screwdriver is very good. particularly how easily they engage, and firmly the hold in, but these are relatively minor aspects.

 

[schlitzaugen]

There might be another aspect to phillips screws being chewed up easier. European/normal standard Phillips drivers are designed to jump out of the slots, but JIS (japanese) standard Phillips are not. I have this old little JIS screwdriver I use a lot and it never jumps out. With a normal phillips screwdriver I have to apply a lot of pressure to avoid the screwdriver jumping out when there is some resistance and it's killing my hands.

 

[Stuey]

Yeah, when I started working on cameras I found that the experts warned against using normal Phillips screwdrivers on the older Japanese cameras - the correct ones being referred to as crosspoint, which I assume are JIS standard. The proper tool doesn't mark the head of the screw. Looking at them, the difference seems to be in the taper of each flute of the head, versus parallel sides of the JIS. The tapered sides of the Phillips tends to push the driver out of the screw.

 

[Wildebeest]

Screw drivers.

Yeah, when I started working on cameras I found that the experts warned against using normal Phillips screwdrivers on the older Japanese cameras - the correct ones being referred to as crosspoint, which I assume are JIS standard. The proper tool doesn't mark the head of the screw. Looking at them, the difference seems to be in the taper of each flute of the head, versus parallel sides of the JIS. The tapered sides of the Phillips tends to push the driver out of the screw.

Stuey,
Good to be reading you again.

Re the tapered and straight sided screw flutes. I believe the straight sided ones to be the Pozidrive.
To use a regular Phillips driver on these will destroy them. But, you knew that!:wink2:

 

[alexander]

There might be another aspect to phillips screws being chewed up easier. European/normal standard Phillips drivers are designed to jump out of the slots, but JIS (japanese) standard Phillips are not. I have this old little JIS screwdriver I use a lot and it never jumps out. With a normal phillips screwdriver I have to apply a lot of pressure to avoid the screwdriver jumping out when there is some resistance and it's killing my hands.

curiously i have found the opposite; where there is JIS involved, i end up with a sore hand.

 

[Stuey]

Stuey,
Good to be reading you again.

Re the tapered and straight sided screw flutes. I believe the straight sided ones to be the Pozidrive.
To use a regular Phillips driver on these will destroy them. But, you knew that!:wink2:

Thanks Mr Beest!

As for Posidriv, I thought the difference was not straight sides, but four large 'flutes' like a Phillips, and four tiny sharp ridges in between the flutes, with matching grooves in the screw head. I think, anyway...

See pic for Phillips v JIS.

Alex, you need more practice... :wink2:
Stu

 

[David M]

multifaceted fasteners

I cannot believe that "Sunflag" does not have the best solution. I'm sure that I read a post or two before the crash that had lots of people talking about them.

 

[dino]

...try a touch of valve grinding paste on top of philips or jis... :wink2:



dino

 

[Stuey]

I just read some earlier posts about cordless drills.

Being a tight arse from way back, when my Ryobi 14.4's battery karked it I wanted a cheap way out. The drill unit is still pretty good and I was given an identical second one...so a bit more voltage/current through the motor wouldn't matter too much.

So I bought a new 18v Ryobi battery on special from Bunnos for $38 and repacked the Ryobi's battery. As it has a modular case, fitting a number of their different voltage drills, it had space for two more cells, so I'm now overdriving it at 16.8v. Unfortunately, Sanyo cells would have made the job not cost effective, at least in the short term.

The stock charger was crap, so I knocked up a continuously variable current charger inside an old PC power supply case. It's a simple supply, using a transformer and LM317 voltage reg in regulated current mode, and can put out about 1A @22v. It has two voltages; at ~17v it'll drop output as the battery charges so it can't overcharge. Once the voltages equalise no current flows. At 22v it'll pump up to 1A into the cells for a quick charge. No automation involved, though, so it has to be set on the gauge and watched at the higher settings so it doesn't fry the cells. I've just stuck a chart on top with the current versus time required on top of the charger.

Important bit is that the drill has lots of guts. But the arc from the brushes is much bigger...

Yeah, I know a $230 Makita is much better, but I'm always skint at the moment.

Cheers

Stuey

 

[jo proffi]

I've got a few of the 12v version of that ryobi drill.
If they didn't fall off a ladder, they were great tools.
Mine had just a few torque settings, and each was spot on, unlike its replacement, a bosh with 20 or so torque settings, 18 useless ones and the one or two I use.

Jo