(***SPOILER***) Malaysian GP

Ok..... here's my 2c.
the race-.. bloddy marvelous. Great to see 3 'NEWish' faces on the podium. I loved Trulli's post race comments. Ha! The highlits were Nick's opening stint and the mad dash start! Also the 2 williams scrambling with Ralf in the 'yota.

that incident. - the stewards today handed a warning to Fisi. Who's at fault?? Well fisi's mistake was locking up the wheels and sliding. The fact that he hit Webber is the after affects. As on that line Fisi lost control of direction well before the hit. But Mark should have played his cards better and I think if you could ask mark what he would do differentl; would be to let fisi slide in, which would make fisi have a poor exit and let Nick and Mark through cleanly past him down the straight.... I have seen all the great make mistakes just like this. Including the proffesor, campione and the yellow flash.

the new season - Even if this is all that happens! its been exciting! I will be watching for 05 ferrari in bahrain. The "NEW" Bridgestones and the new spec engine for BAR when its sorted.

driver comments - I have always rated Fisi. He reminds me of me! as he lets his heart get in the way sometimes... so too Trulli. Even when Jarno was Karting world champ he was notorious for geting hot when the visor clicked down. (Trulli plays with his visor a lot).
Alonso reminds me of Piquet when he drives, but my man Kimmi is so exciting, fast dynamic and very cool. For my money he is faster than JPM. I'm also keeping and eye on these Red Bull guys... more competetive than i would have thought.
Flavio needs to loose weight! - Chris
 
Wow Chris, considering your karting background, you were very diplomatic in your post. I did some kart racing when I was younger and I've come close getting into fisticuffs with guys doing the same move that Fisi did on Webber. It's just not on when guys coming in on the wrong race line use you as a brake. Granted Mark could have tried to brake harder to get on the inside of Fisi on the exit but he was in front of Fisi coming into a corner he was already commited to. Besides, if you're coming down the inside of someone you had better be damn sure you are in control (controlled sliding included) throughout the corner. I'd be interested to hear Cal's take on the incident.

Having said that though it's good seeing the drivers having a go at each other. I was fearing that they wouldn't due to the condition of the tyres even by half race distance. I'd hate to say it, but more of these incidents will be seen during this season.

Raikonnen has so far out shone JPM in my books but is that because JPM is gentler on his equipment than Kimi?

Rich
 
For me the race was pretty much another procession like we had so many of last season, however there were a few highlights amoungst it, the three car shuffle in the middle of the race. I think it was Webber, Heidfeld and another... not sure. Then Webber hit third and the incident occured.

I'm not sure of mt facts but perhaps Webber was as comitted to the corner as he could be and not have braked anymore than he did. The alternative would of been to go staight on which he wouldn't of, or taken a much wider line to avoid the incident but in doing so would of been in the marbles and had a terrible exit. Regardless, for me it was simply a racing incident where there was no clear blame to lay.

As for the Ferrari's it would appear their biggest problem is tyres. Bridgestone just hasn't pulled together a competitive tyre yet so early in the season. Much of this no doubt is due to the limited teams running their tyres, hence less testing time. Ferrari shunned the 30 day testing all other teams volantarily are sticking to so lest hope for the sake of the competition they get their act together....but slowly, wait for Renault to get a nice lead and watch the Fezza's play cartchup.
 
Passing on the outside

There is a famous precedent:

In 1977 Mario Andretti, experienced in Indy cars, but in his rookie F1 season overtook James Hunt on the outside of a corner at Zandvoort, Andretti got away with it but Hunt lost it and crashed.
After the race it is reported that Hunt approached Andretti and said, in his best posh pommy voice: "We don't overtake on the outside in Formula One, Old Boy".

Andretti replied: "Well, we do now!!".

Good on ya, Mark, av a go mate!

BTW, I was a bit surprised to see that Webber started off the season with 50 F1 races behind him - I wouldn't say inexperienced - but possibly more used to being the passee than the passor!

Cheers, Fordman.
 
zorry

"""Well said Guy. Fisi was a complete and utter nutter thinking he could outbrake Webber on shot tyres in the marbles! He was NEVER going to stop in time. He was in front of Webber as Webber had already started braking. Yes he could've done more, but Fisi was a complete nutcase there.""""


no no no no no no, PLS, did you ever was involved into a race car? in a race?

it's even not only in F1, when you are behind a car understeering, you NEVER pass it by the exterior in a corner!

it's as simple as that, webber is the nut, he was behind for laps, and knew he couldn't pass him by exterrior, because Fisico car was slinding in each coener to the exterior, and fisico couldn't do nothing!

Webber is a stupid for years,always involved into poor driving, and didn't reflect when have a wheel in his hands!

and fisico wasn't nice to block the challengers!

don't wrongly read my post, i like webber , he's quick, but it's a nut!
 
There's a difference between going around the outside of someone and someone coming in on the inside. :rolleyes:

Rich
 
TheRealFrog said:
it's even not only in F1, when you are behind a car understeering, you NEVER pass it by the exterior in a corner!

it's as simple as that, webber is the nut, he was behind for laps, and knew he couldn't pass him by exterrior, because Fisico car was slinding in each coener to the exterior, and fisico couldn't do nothing!
Click to expand...

Oh God, i couldnt have said it better myself with 50 posts :D Take note guys, and someone tell Mark :D





Im getting sick of my posts but id like to clarify :rolleyes:

1. Although Webber was on the outside, lets be clear here; Webber was on the RACING LINE....

2. Having said that, as Webber approached the braking zone of the corner, he already knew where Fisichella was and what his intentions were gonna be (defend his position on the inside) because as stated he was behind Fisi at the time. He took a conscious decision to make up ground by staying and braking on the racing line which was smart, and to give Fisi minimal room to take the corner as in if Fisichella did not lose control, he would of had Webber right next to him on the apex (i didnt see 3 car widths, sorry) which was ultimately not smart...




Pug-a-lug said:
Anymore from people's memory banks?
Click to expand...

Let me remind you of one in my memory bank: Estoril '85 when Prost spun with Prost going down the straight, collecting the fencing and retiring from the race!!!!

:roflmao: :roflmao: :joker:
 
CHRI'S16 said:
Ok..... here's my 2c. - Chris
Click to expand...

yeah i think Kimi drives with his head & Montoya with his testicles...

Montoya gets into a LOT of scuffles & does a lot of silly ones...
Glad to see your enthsiasm is back Chris!
 
Zen said:
Wow Chris, considering your karting background, you were very diplomatic in your post. I did some kart racing when I was younger and I've come close getting into fisticuffs with guys doing the same move that Fisi did on Webber.

Raikonnen has so far out shone JPM in my books but is that because JPM is gentler on his equipment than Kimi?

Rich[/QUOTE
You know Rich, I've seen the most entertainig (well if you got sick humor like me) fights at karts. Spesh when they keep their helmets on and yell into each others visors!!! Ha.... well sorta. I see too many kids get hot headed, and think that as an young adult who talks to these fast little ones should probably set a better example... or start winning more races. LOL.

I have heard that "your/the first reaction is the right one." It was clear to me that Mark was upset at Fisi. Fisi knew he made a mistake and his body language showed guilt. But I will comment no more on this subject. Don't get me wrong I like healthy heated discussions, but as Rich and all other racers on this forum will tell you, there is so much detail in this incident that at any given moment (including laps before MW and GF were even duelling) that it would take too much to really showcase what happened.

As for JPM Vs Kimi, they are worlds apart. Champ Car racing is very different from the euro racing Kimi came from... I think kimi is faster, but is not as agressive behind the wheel. Were as JPM in a fast car will take anyone on. Kimi knows when he has to respect.

What we must remember thought, at this level EVERY SINGLE ONE of these guys are FAST!!! simple. These guys could jump into anything and be reasonabbly competetive. There might be some guys who are faster than each other, but we are talking down to 100th of secs. Hence I'm looking forward to A1 GP. thats www.a1gp.com Even playing field in fast cars travelling the world and representing thier nation.

Ok enough now.. too many threads to read. BRING ON BAHRAIN!! - Chris
Click to expand...
 
1. maybe if mark had waited for a better opportunity when Fisi was not taking such a defensive line then he would have been caught and then run into by a clumsy toyota driver and taken out of the race...

2. what would make Mark expect Fisi to miss the apex and lose control off his car when he didn't do that on any previous laps ...

3. Ralf and Fisi are much more experienced F1 drivers than webber so they should have been able to keep control of their cars and not run into someone else?

I think we're all over this discussion but I just thought I'd make a couple of points and put in my $0.02 just so that a range of opinions is recorded here. and you might guess I agree with the stewards and think Fisi is mostly at blame for the collision. Webber may have some blame for causing the accident by trying to make a pass - but really, who here wants him to be another coulda-woulda-shoulda-if-only type driver.

Both drivers could have avoided the collision, perhaps Fisi should have conceded the position and still collected points for fourth, fifth or sixth ... but this way Alonso gets more of a lead in points as the #1 renault driver so I am happy about that. I actually think Webber deserves credit for a ballsy move that I would've paid off if Fisi had just braked in time to make the corner.

Maybe Webber (and some of you) don't remember what Fisi did at the German and Austrian GP in 2000... I don't hate Fisi, I just rate him the same as Trulli - which is probably slightly less than he deserves, but I think that just balances out the people who overate him too much - I think these Italian drivers are seriously lacking consistent performance.
 
I think it should be pointed out that at the time of the incident, Webber was in front. He had successfully overtaken Fisichella (without sliding into the back of him) a few corners earlier.

It was Fisi who tried to take back his position by diving up the inside.
 
Pug-a-lug said:
I think it should be pointed out that at the time of the incident, Webber was in front. He had successfully overtaken Fisichella (without sliding into the back of him) a few corners earlier.

It was Fisi who tried to take back his position by diving up the inside.
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at the time of the incident fisi was breaking and was a nose ahead of webber...
 
And the war rages on...... :D

There is NO WAY Fisi was a nose ahead at the time of the incident and braking. He was out of control so, well braking yes but not effectively. A nose ahead? Well, depends when you define time of incident, because Webber took out a car length ahead in the braking zone (although starting a nose behind when approaching the corner).

Either way, Scott Speed pulled some impressive times over the last couple of days... I reckon next season he will be in a car as the first US driver for a while.
 
Pug-a-lug said:
I think it should be pointed out that at the time of the incident, Webber was in front. He had successfully overtaken Fisichella (without sliding into the back of him) a few corners earlier.

It was Fisi who tried to take back his position by diving up the inside.
Click to expand...
A Fishi driver and Mark is 'supposed' to be the novice?
If some goon slides into me i know whose fault it is
JoBo
 
orestes said:
at the time of the incident fisi was breaking and was a nose ahead of webber...
Click to expand...

GTFO! At the time of the incident?!?!? Fisi went into the corner hot, of course he's gonna be in front of Webber when they collided. As Pug-a-lug said, coming into the corner at the REAL braking point Webber was in front. You're making me angrier than listening to Martin Brundle's take on the incident! ARGHHHHH!!!! :mad:

Rich
 
In my view, Webber did nothing that was specifically wrong...

He went wide and gave Fisichella room, and even more room than he had to... but he did the 'wrong thing' by himself.

He should have gone right out wide (off the racing Line? You've got to be joking! There has to be two 'racing lines' if there are two cars on the one bit of track, and in situations like this and corners like this there are many more), bided his time while Fisi got on with sliding out to the outside, then ducked up the inside and got away.

He'll learn...
 
Zen said:
GTFO! At the time of the incident?!?!? Fisi went into the corner hot, of course he's gonna be in front of Webber when they collided. As Pug-a-lug said, coming into the corner at the REAL braking point Webber was in front. You're making me angrier than listening to Martin Brundle's take on the incident! ARGHHHHH!!!! :mad:

Rich
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We're all entitled to our own opinions. Wether or not someone else thinks there valid is another story :2cents:

Orestes
 
orestes said:
at the time of the incident fisi was breaking and was a nose ahead of webber... We're all entitled to our own opinions. Wether or not someone else thinks there valid is another story :2cents: Orestes
Click to expand...
So who was breaking in front of who ?

- xTc -
 
orestes said:
We're all entitled to our own opinions. Wether or not someone else thinks there valid is another story :2cents:

Orestes
Click to expand...

Just so I can gauge your opinion... do you still stand by this after viewing the movie file above?

You're always going to be a nose in front when you brake too late and on the inside line... but that's just how I see it, how do you see it after the movie file that has been posted?
 
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