Resurrecting a Goddess.......Twice

[faulksy]

This might give you a better idea of how it works. Pressure from the front brakes forces the piston back against its spring allowing the main slide valve to connect the clutch slave to the high pressure supply to disengage it. The spring needs to return the piston to its resting position against the end of the bore to put the governor back in change of the clutch. You can bench test it otherwise you'll need to perform an emergency stop to confirm its operation. I've only had to do it once in 4th gear and was a little surprised to find the engine still happily purring away as though nothing had happened.

- Michael

 

[Budge]

Thanks. That's the key point isn't it: the piston should not be so stiff in it's bore that the big spring cannot return it to it's normal position after an emergency stop. I think I need to investigate mine further.....

 

[faulksy]

You could try pressing on the pushrod between the two halves and see if the spring is strong enough to return the piston.

 

[faulksy]

Episode 17: BVH Woes

The last part of the BVH system to receive some attention is the gear selector or "brain" as some call it. From the outside it doesnt look like much but internally there is a lot going on. Rebuilding one is covered operation DX 334-3 of manual 518 but there are a few traps in that the photos don't seem to match the text which seems to be a common problem with manual 518. Armed with teh manual it's time to break out the spanners.

​

Getting it off the car wasn't to bad as the steering column and exhaust manifolds were out of the way giving easier access to the set of 5 pipes that run down to the gearbox. What you see in the pic above is the side normally facing the wing and the underside. Undoing the end cover reveals a set of springs and to my surprise nice clean LHM. I was sort of expecting the thing to be seized internally given its proximity to the fire.

​

With all the covers off the various pistons and valves can be removed. The gear selector slide valve is the most important not to damage. There are no seals anywhere on it relying solely on the fine machining tolerance to seal.

The slide valve itself is hollow and plugged at both ends. LHM is fed via the gearchange speed regulator into the valve through 2 small holes on the left hand end, one is just visible in the photo. Rotating the valve in the bore aligns each of the high pressure outlets with an outlet port supply pressure to a slave piston and the clutch controls. The high pressure outlets are the small holes on the top right. The large groves in the face are for fluid being returned from the slave pistons. The alignment of the slide valve within the bore is handled by the gear selector leaver in the dashboard, without it attached the slide valve doesn't have anything to keep it in place. Alignment of the valve with the selector is achieved by inserting a 4mm pin into the alignment hole which is handily located on the underside of the unit and must be found by feel. A drill bit does the job although I had to break 2cm off the end to fit it into the car.

​

It is at this point I ran into the first problem. Because the gear selector was directly in the path of the fire as it burnt through the dashboard, all the plastic parts including the start switch were gone and the unit had seized solid. By chance one cropped up on ebay in France and i snapped it up as nobody I talked to hear knew of a wreck with one still attached. Bolting it to the selector everything looked fine.

​

However sliding it all into the dashboard revealed a problem. The manual clutch control lever wouldn't clear the edge of the dashboard, clearly something was wrong. Checking the parts book showed CItroen were up to their usual trick of same same but not. Spot the difference......

For whatever reason the gear selector on an EFI car is 30mm longer than a carby car. This meant I now had to dismantle them to swap parts. The important parts to swap were the chrome lever the stick out of the steering column, starter switch and manual clutch control lever. The whole thing does come apart but it relies on being able to slide the drum roughly in the centre of the thing off the shaft. On both it was properly stuck.

Back in the dashboard ready for testing. Most of the new wiring is also in and seems to be working! One final step was needed before testing, cleaning the LHM tank. There was still some LHM in it but a lot of rubbish has mode its way in there as well including a few litres of water that killed off the freshly rebuilt pump that was on the car. It sat full of water for a month and resulted in 6 of the 7 pistons being jammed. This is what came out of the tank after shaking some petrol in there....

​

5 litres of fresh LHM and we're ready to see if there is life in the hydraulics! I think with that this blog is now up to the present, watch this space.

 

[Budge]

Episode 17: BVH Woes

The last part of the BVH system to receive some attention is the gear selector or "brain" as some call it. From the outside it doesnt look like much but internally there is a lot going on. Rebuilding one is covered operation DX 334-3 of manual 518 but there are a few traps in that the photos don't seem to match the text which seems to be a common problem with manual 518. Armed with teh manual it's time to break out the spanners.

​

Getting it off the car wasn't to bad as the steering column and exhaust manifolds were out of the way giving easier access to the set of 5 pipes that run down to the gearbox. What you see in the pic above is the side normally facing the wing and the underside. Undoing the end cover reveals a set of springs and to my surprise nice clean LHM. I was sort of expecting the thing to be seized internally given its proximity to the fire.

​

With all the covers off the various pistons and valves can be removed. The gear selector slide valve is the most important not to damage. There are no seals anywhere on it relying solely on the fine machining tolerance to seal.

The slide valve itself is hollow and plugged at both ends. LHM is fed via the gearchange speed regulator into the valve through 2 small holes on the left hand end, one is just visible in the photo. Rotating the valve in the bore aligns each of the high pressure outlets with an outlet port supply pressure to a slave piston and the clutch controls. The high pressure outlets are the small holes on the top right. The large groves in the face are for fluid being returned from the slave pistons. The alignment of the slide valve within the bore is handled by the gear selector leaver in the dashboard, without it attached the slide valve doesn't have anything to keep it in place. Alignment of the valve with the selector is achieved by inserting a 4mm pin into the alignment hole which is handily located on the underside of the unit and must be found by feel. A drill bit does the job although I had to break 2cm off the end to fit it into the car.

​

It is at this point I ran into the first problem. Because the gear selector was directly in the path of the fire as it burnt through the dashboard, all the plastic parts including the start switch were gone and the unit had seized solid. By chance one cropped up on ebay in France and i snapped it up as nobody I talked to hear knew of a wreck with one still attached. Bolting it to the selector everything looked fine.

​

However sliding it all into the dashboard revealed a problem. The manual clutch control lever wouldn't clear the edge of the dashboard, clearly something was wrong. Checking the parts book showed CItroen were up to their usual trick of same same but not. Spot the difference......

For whatever reason the gear selector on an EFI car is 30mm longer than a carby car. This meant I now had to dismantle them to swap parts. The important parts to swap were the chrome lever the stick out of the steering column, starter switch and manual clutch control lever. The whole thing does come apart but it relies on being able to slide the drum roughly in the centre of the thing off the shaft. On both it was properly stuck.

Back in the dashboard ready for testing. Most of the new wiring is also in and seems to be working! One final step was needed before testing, cleaning the LHM tank. There was still some LHM in it but a lot of rubbish has mode its way in there as well including a few litres of water that killed off the freshly rebuilt pump that was on the car. It sat full of water for a month and resulted in 6 of the 7 pistons being jammed. This is what came out of the tank after shaking some petrol in there....

​

5 litres of fresh LHM and we're ready to see if there is life in the hydraulics! I think with that this blog is now up to the present, watch this space.

Thanks for all of this. I've yet to tackle my gear brain rebuild and this will be very helpful reference. I'm dying to find out how you get on with the next step. Was that starter switch on Ebay or another site?

 

[DoubleChevron]

Episode 15: Progress Report

To many things have happened in the last 2 weeks to sensibly split them out so here goes.

The new EFI loom went in and each component was checked against the manual to make sure it was all working. During the tests I found that I had incorrectly wired the impulse relay but that was soon fixed. Safe in the knowlege that all the components tested ok I felt safe to connect the ECU and begin testing. After being burned and flooded there was no guarrantee the ECU would even power up let alone work particularly as I had to desolder the resistor bank at the top of the photo to get all the water out. The scary thing is, there is no way for the average Joe to test an ECU beyond putting power to it and seeing if the pump runs.

Low and behold plugging it in and turning the key caused the pump to run and opening the throttle produces the requisite 20 clicks from the injectors, both good signs. I also had to install a NOS manifold vacuum sensor which cropped up on ebay for just over $100 AUD as the original on was full of water and cactus. Not bad going given they usually start at 500 EUR for untested ones from a field. Given it was dead I decided to open it, not something that should normally be done.

​

The rust is from the iron core of the transformer and armature. I might reinstall it later and see what happens.

I ended up chasing my tail around the engine for 2 weeks trying to figure out why it wouldn't start. Checking all the usual things like points and such turned up no answers and the starter motor had to be sent off for rebuilding. It came back looking brand new and turns over about 5 times faster than it used to. Still no life from the engine. I did get it running on 2 cylinders briefly one afternoon but sadly that trick was not to be repeated. I concluded that the ECU must be damaged and tracked down a mob in Melbourne who can test and repair them. It passed every test with flying colours somewhat annoyingly as it meant the problem was elsewhere. A chance discovery revealed that the points were sticking and not following the cam properly. A new set was installed and it fired into life!

check the lower set of points in the dizzie if it ran on two cylinders. They should cycle open and closed at the calculators plug when you crank the motor. I strongly suggest checking all of the capacitors inside the calculator too. if they are even slightly bulging at the top, replace them!

 

[faulksy]

The selector wasn't that bad to rebuild all things considered. The worst part was getting the seals for the automatic clutch control pistons out. The 4th one is a long way down the bore and there is very little room to wield a tool. I ended up bending the end of a flat blade screwdriver and sharpening it with a file to cut through the old seals and leaver them out.

You've probably already seen these but I'd suggest looking at citrothello's page https://citrothello.net/blog/remise-en-etat-bloc-hydraulique-lhm/

and HD19 Épisode 41

The starter switch is not a spare part anyone remakes. It is riveted onto the gear selector housing and I would be very careful if you're going to remove it being 50 year old plastic. The rivets have a conical head and are punched from the underside. By coincidence the same screws that hold the door catches on are the right size to replace the rivets. By sheer fluke, a whole selector assembly cropped up on ebay back in February not long after the fire. I had anticipated it being one of the hardest parts to replace but there you go. It's the only one I've ever seen come up. Citroen Classics or the usual suspects should be able to find one.

Getting the chrome lever off requires you to take out the lower pin, pull the lever past 2nd and rotate so the hinge point is at the top and rotate the housing all the way round past 4th gear. Probably doesn't make much sense now but it will when you do it. The aim is to rotate the lever off the selector shaft. There are 2 spring loaded ball bearings for the detentes, watch out for the left/right one as it will probably fire itself across the room.

 

[faulksy]

Thanks Shane. I ended up swapping in a brand new set of trigger points and got the same result, 2 cylinders and wouldn't rev past 1000rpm. Measuring the pins at the plug confirmed they were working fine indicating the problem was elsewhere. The next time I tried it wouldn't fire at all.

A new set of ignition points caused it to cough into life on all 4 cylinders with the aid of some start ya bastard. Adjusting the distributor brought the idle from barely running to a smoothish 1500 RPM. Way to high I know but I had to wind out the idle screw a long way to keep the thing running while adjusting the timing. It now starts first time every time as if the last 6 months hadn't happened!

There is only 2 electrolytic capacitors in the whole ECU, the two silver rectangles on the right. The rest are mylar, ceramic or polystyrene which don't fail in quite the same way as electrolytics. Granted after 50 years they have all probably drifted somewhat from their stated values but the only real way to test is to remove each one from the board, capacitance being the funny thing that it is. The test report I got back shows its pretty damn close to the factory spec.

 

[Budge]

Thanks Faulksy. I'm thinking of having a go at repairing one of those starter switches as a spare - maybe using parts from a contact breaker set? Greta reference on the gear brain. i already have the rebuild kit. I'm itching to get stuck in now!

 

[faulksy]

I think the starter switches were the same all through production so if you can find one, go for it. As long as the contacts are clean the switch will work, the most common failure is the plastic disintegrating.

I think the o-rings in the seal kit I got are slightly oversized given how much force it took to push the pistons past but it seems to work fine. I'd imagine being a LHD you'll have an easier time with the seal plate for the pipes to the gearbox. The only real challenge is bleeding the thing once it's all together. As far as i can tell you have to undo the 5 flare nuts at the gearbox and run the system through the gears. It might be worth filling all of the pipework with LHM before fitting the selector.

 

[Budge]

Thanks for tip Faulksy.

 

[DoubleChevron]

try changing the big silver tin capacitors. I think these might be on the output that drives the injectors (transisters/fets .. can't remember which). Mine always ran two of the injectors years ago when I was tinkering with it (obviously with massive flooding) until I changed them.

have you checked the earth wiring? the transistors supply 12volts but they injectors needs to be permanently earthed. If the earth connection is crook, the injectors will fail (in pairs). It it sin't the earth, you probably have a dead transistor.

I would be very tempted to go the route of an aftermarket injection system on a DS and move away from the ancient electronics. especially the modern units that "self learn" with the addition of an oxy sensor.

seeya
Shane L.

 

[Armidillo]

Shane, you need to read to the end of posts - even when they are more than one paragraph long!

Here is a quote from faulksy (post #68) : "A new set of ignition points caused it to cough into life on all 4 cylinders ... It now starts first time every time as if the last 6 months hadn't happened!"

 

[faulksy]

I'm very tempted to replace the D-Jetronic with megasquirt or something similar but really wanted to see what shape the engine was in before reinventing the wheel. The biggest fear was that I'd go to through the whole exercise and then have to troubleshoot a 3rd party custom EFI setup on top of sorting the engine. Turns out the D-Jet system is amazingly robust. Since I've owned the car its been shorted out, burned, flooded and yet still works perfectly!

There's something to be said for German engineering! It's running a bit rough but no worse than it has since I've owned it. Seems to have a slight miss which occasionally caused some jerkiness while cruising. No idea what causes it and have replace or adjusted everything I can think of.

The real draw of megasquirt is that it's almost plug and play with D-Jet.

 

[PeterMol]

I'm very tempted to replace the D-Jetronic with megasquirt or something similar but really wanted to see what shape the engine was in before reinventing the wheel. The biggest fear was that I'd go to through the whole exercise and then have to troubleshoot a 3rd party custom EFI setup on top of sorting the engine. Turns out the D-Jet system is amazingly robust. Since I've owned the car its been shorted out, burned, flooded and yet still works perfectly!

There's something to be said for German engineering! It's running a bit rough but no worse than it has since I've owned it. Seems to have a slight miss which occasionally caused some jerkiness while cruising. No idea what causes it and have replace or adjusted everything I can think of.

The real draw of megasquirt is that it's almost plug and play with D-Jet.

Faulksy. You’ve heard me say it before. Mega squirt and one less thing to go wrong. Combined with 123 it should run beautifully

 

[PeterMol]

I'm very tempted to replace the D-Jetronic with megasquirt or something similar but really wanted to see what shape the engine was in before reinventing the wheel. The biggest fear was that I'd go to through the whole exercise and then have to troubleshoot a 3rd party custom EFI setup on top of sorting the engine. Turns out the D-Jet system is amazingly robust. Since I've owned the car its been shorted out, burned, flooded and yet still works perfectly!

There's something to be said for German engineering! It's running a bit rough but no worse than it has since I've owned it. Seems to have a slight miss which occasionally caused some jerkiness while cruising. No idea what causes it and have replace or adjusted everything I can think of.

The real draw of megasquirt is that it's almost plug and play with D-Jet.

Faulksy. You’ve heard me say it before. Mega squirt and one less thing to go wrong. Combined with 123 it should run beautifully

 

[faulksy]

Episode 18: The insulation game

I decided to take a break from the oily bits over the last few weeks as I was a bit over being covered in LHM. Fortunately there are plenty of other jobs that need looking at with the next one being tidying up the interior. Following the fire, I ripped up all the carpet on the sills and pulled up the insulation on the front floor as there wasn't much of it left. This just left the insulation on the rear floor to pull up which turned out to still be wet and hiding puddles in the ribs of the floor. Unfortunately doing this also removed a lot of the paint leaving behind a patchwork or bare steel, aluminium foil, factory undercoat, black paint and glue. The thought of wirebrushing the floorpan brought back many painful memories of blisters and grazed knuckles from the first time I stripped it so I went hunting for a better solution. I'm sure many of you are familiar with flap wheels and the like but they were new to me and what a revelation they are.

​

It took about 3 hours to remove all the old paint, a vast imporvement on the entire day it took last time. A liberal coating of rust converter saw to the remaining problem areas. It is really amazing how much the floors flex as you move across them. Stage 2 of the plan was brought into action and called for more of my old friend, black paint.

That's better! I left the front floor alone as removing the old insulation didn't damage the paint underneath. A good clean with some solvent took care of the glue residue. As with the firewall the whole floor got a layer of heavy butyl matting. It's roughly equivalent to the bitumen mats originally used.

Laying this stuff made a huge difference. The floor no longer acts like a giant bass drum giving only a dull thud when hit as opposed to a thunderous boom without the mats. The final layer is an acoustic foam made up of two layers with different densities laminated together. If nothing else it makes the floor more comfortable to sit on. hopefully it lives up to the claims made by the marketing team

Just about ready for carpet which I have yet to order.

 

[Budge]

Fast work! I should be bringing my car back home (again) this weekend. It's been offsite for nearly 12 months while we've had building work done. With that nearly done and the car away, I've taken the opportunity to paint the garage walls and floor. So it is going to be a nicer working environment when the car is finally back. First job will be to strip and repaint the engine bay. Flap wheels are already purchased!

 

[faulksy]

Episode 19: The Big Move

I can't say stripping and painting the engine bay will be a lot of fun. 50 years worth of baked on LHM........

Body work always looks a lot worse before it gets better. I'm currently in the process of dismantling all the panels for painting, the colour has yet to be decided.

It's been a busy few weeks. All hydraulic systems have been restored to a functional state and by some minor miracle seem to be working as intended apart from an issue with the front suspension but more on that later. As well as that the car now has a new home occupying a corner of a workshop generously loaned by a club member. All the spare parts the have occupied the boot for the last 6 months had to be emptied and packed up for the trip. Having the car drivable made loading it onto a trailer a piece of cake. It wasn't till I drove it up the driveway to the workshop that I realised how out of adjustment the BHV system has gotten. Not entirely surprising seeing as every part has been rebuilt but it's another job to add to the list. Current plan of attack is to prepare the panels and send them off giving roughly a month to fit the new interior and sort the last few wiring / mechanical items before the panels come back.

The warm weather last weekend seemed like the ideal time to fix the ruined dashboard. Since the fire I've accumulated 5 dashboards in varying states of completeness. Most of them are unusable for my car as they are from manual cars and the ignition is on the wrong side but between all of them there is enough plastic parts to build one complete dashboard. and now for the before shot

The whole dash was covered in a tar like substance from the melted plastics and rubbers which had to be cleaned off to reveal the paint below.

The whole panel was taken back to bare steel. By chance there was one other panel with the ignition on the left so it was prepped as well. I figured why not double the chances of getting a decent dashboard.

After painting

It came up really well, the trick i've found is to apply plenty of heat while the paint is drying otherwise the wrinkle effect can become patchy and uneven. Now to sort out all the plastic parts.....

 

[Budge]

Nice. I'm sure I've seen a Youtube video where they do just that: they applied a heat gun after spraying the paint and the dashboard wrinkles suddenly magically appeared.