R8 needle roller seal

B

Brianbcs

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Fellow Frogger
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Traralgon,Victoria
I'm finally about to reassemble the axles to my gearbox on the R8 G replica. This is a twin shock rear end and 16TS Big box with Steve Swan big uni's/. There is a seal which sits against the shoulder of the needle bearing housing/trunnion . My originals are so badly damaged that I have no idea what they should look like.
Are they a common seal that can be obtained locally or an import job.Mine appear to be a flat rubber seal which would be easy enough to make with a wad punch. Any suggestions or leads would be appreciated. Cheers Brian
 
I've only ever known paper seals for the trunnions but whatever you use I would recommend a trial fit into the carriers because if the gasket is too thick you will have a bugger of a job installing the axle tubes..:2cents:
 
That's interesting about the paper seals. I've pulled 2 gearbox transaxles apart to salvage the best bits and both had remnants of a rubber seal. Thanks for the input.
 
Hi
I do not have the answer but I suspect you two are not talking about the same part :)
I would use an O ring if it is the correct profile more or less. There are a selection of cross section diameters. That is if I am on the correct part track.
Jaahn
 
Hmm. Some cross purpose comms here I suspect.

Do you mean the dinky little seal on the trunnion housing that has the needle-roller inside, and into which the swing axle trunnion sits and pivots? I've seen them with and without a seal but a wad-punched bit of neoprene about 1 mm thick should do it I'd guess. The new ones available seem to have a seal.
 
Yes John that is the seal I'm refering to. It looks like it was originally a flat seal but I can't see that it would have served a great deal of purpose. I reckon you are right on the money with the wad punch. Some of the aftermarket trunnion housing/needle rollers i.e Mecaparts,GB Alpine,Simon Auto, show a built in seal with the housing. Cheers Brian
 
Brian the seal has a reason !!!

In Wet conditions the universal area can become awash inside the housing. Most of the water will drain when standing, but still leaves moisture inside. The seal is there to stop moisture getting into the needle trunnion. I use a O'ring, but also waterproof grease like Pennzol or Mobil.

Ray
 
Brianbcs said:
Thanks for that Ray,I'll look into the O ring method.
Cheers Brian
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Totally agree with Ray. The thing I think you will need to deal with is squish - the needle roller housings have a shoulder that fits inside the swing axle support housings that bolt together, as you know well. Getting the seals wide enough to seal the needle rollers using "O" rings will also involve those rings pushing the housings outwards along the trunnions. The seals that come with new housings are flat not round I think. Somehow you'll need to compress both of them while positioning the swing axle correctly to get the needle roller housings into the basal part of the support housing. There'll be a way of course, but it might be a tad fiddly. Be worth asking Ray exactly what size "O" rings he uses - might save quite a bit of pain. :)

As Ray said, the inside of the housing can get wet - there is no seal provided between the two halves that bolt together and only felt strips unless the proper gaiters are fitted.
 
I agree John, the original is a thin flat seal,probably flatter now than when it was first installed! The only flat seal I've been able to find is a common red fibre seal which fits perfectly but I doubt it would do much to to keep out moisture. Incidentally my gaiters are the original one piece which are in as new condition. Will keep researching..don't want to have to do it more than once if it can be avoided! Thanks for the input guys.
 

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I would suggest Wad punch cutting from leather and then soaking in oil or massaging in grease as an attempt to replicate the original item . I last sealed the two halves of the trunnion housings with a flexible locktite anaerobic setting compound , completely around the needle bearing housings . By the way , if you wish to tidy up the handling , I have a pair of original works R8 Gordini solid cage mounts for the side of the gearbox for sale . $80 plus post
 
Brianbcs said:
Yes John that is the seal I'm refering to. It looks like it was originally a flat seal but I can't see that it would have served a great deal of purpose. I reckon you are right on the money with the wad punch. Some of the aftermarket trunnion housing/needle rollers i.e Mecaparts,GB Alpine,Simon Auto, show a built in seal with the housing. Cheers Brian
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Well, well. My good friend Jean-Pierre has these exact seals listed on Web Pieces Retro.

Train arrière, Arbres de roue

If the link doesn't work properly, they are listed under "Rear Axle, wheel shafts".

Cheers
 
Brianbcs said:
I agree John, the original is a thin flat seal,probably flatter now than when it was first installed! The only flat seal I've been able to find is a common red fibre seal which fits perfectly but I doubt it would do much to to keep out moisture. Incidentally my gaiters are the original one piece which are in as new condition. Will keep researching..don't want to have to do it more than once if it can be avoided! Thanks for the input guys.
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Nice photos. Agree re the fibre washer - a bit of squish needed I think. Once is enough. To be honest, I've no idea whether my seals are intact or not or whether I even looked at that back in 1976-7 when I last had that component apart! Anyway, I've just posted regarding seals available - in that case cork.

Be interesting to see what you do in the end - more photos please!

Cheers
 
Thanks again for the suggestions guys. I'll try again locally to see if there's something available from the bearing supplies. I checked the link John and that may be the best way out although Toolman's idea of the leather may also work.Will keep you posted.Cheers Brian
 
I reckon the leather would work fine but you'd need to get the thickness right, otherwise it will be very difficult to get the roller cages pressed inward far enough for their lips to sit in the groove in the trunnion carrier.

Good to get these things correct. I have no idea how many of the cars around and running have addressed this little detail at all. I know I had mine for 30 years before I even knew there were seals there.... :)
 
Very true John, I also had no idea they existed. I was always pulling R8's and 10's to bits back in the day but can't recall ever needing to remove uni's and axles e.t.c. Which is surprising as they were worked hard and had big motors!
 
JohnW said:
I reckon the leather would work fine but you'd need to get the thickness right, otherwise it will be very difficult to get the roller cages pressed inward far enough for their lips to sit in the groove in the trunnion carrier.

Good to get these things correct. I have no idea how many of the cars around and running have addressed this little detail at all. I know I had mine for 30 years before I even knew there were seals there.... :)
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Which is precisely what my comments in post #2 was alluding to. The seal thickness will need to be correct and not too thick or the trunnions/axle tubes won't fit into the carriers
 
Ok, so the decision to go with leather has been made. I found some soft leather and cut them out with wad punches.Did a dry run last night and whilst a bit tight they did compress enough to fit in the trunnion's. Removed them tonight and they have compressed nicely so I see no reason not to give it a go. The other option is import from France or keep searching for something suitable locally.
 

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Looks good - grease/oil soaked before final assembly? Provided you don't go swimming I'd suggest it will be fine. Be interested to see whether anyone else sees it differently.
 
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