Lmao this thread is pure satire.
I can see your master mechanic must love you, the EP6 alone will keep him in business until retirement.
Pug 308 EB2DTS: rough idle, vibration, loss of power
- Thread starter KrisPat
- Start date
Lmao this thread is pure satire.
I can see your master mechanic must love you, the EP6 alone will keep him in business until retirement.
You are saying HDI engines don't need timing belt kit replacements? Or that they don't suffer egr and dpf issues? Or that they don't have injectors issues? Or that no other petrol or HDi engines go through parts wear and tears?
What is so bad if THP engines require timing chain kit replacements every 100,000 km or so?
Can you point at any engine ever produced that doesn't have a weakness or weaknesses?
Lion-King Monk.
I think this is all just a bit ridiculous on both sides. The engine is obviously not perfect, but nothing is in life. I've still seen high mileage examples and older Peugeot's on the road and you expect some maintenance issues to pop up over time. I don't expect it to last much over 200,000km like all these highly stressed small capacity turbo engines. But so long as you perform all the routine maintenance and use good oil, is it really that bad? I doubt it. I've enjoy driving mine for 3 years without issues and I bought it used. I gave myself a headache reading into all these issues, but it's mostly the older cars and Mini's that seem to be affected. The timing tensioner and chain might still be an issue but we have very good consumer laws in this country, if your car is under ten years old and been serviced according to the book, you could take that up with Peugeot and push for them to cover the costs.
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I am not a fan of forced induction engines (aside THP270), but I have come to realise that people still live in the past (early THP days). The newer/improved THPs hardly have engine issues when properly maintained. The usual THP wearable parts are actually attachments/accessories on them, like the High pressure fuel pump, ignition coil, thermostat housing, etc. Also, the valve stem seals that tend to wear out when the Engines are unused for a long time.
I wished Peugeot has maintained NA powerful bigger engines like their V6, but we the people are the cause with the crappy climate control nonsense. Notwithstanding, these THP engines are not as bad as they are portrayed. Even users use wrong engine oils in them and start complaining of engine issues. There are THP users that are enjoying theirs.
Lion-King Monk.
I wished Peugeot has maintained NA powerful bigger engines like their V6, but we the people are the cause with the crappy climate control nonsense. Notwithstanding, these THP engines are not as bad as they are portrayed. Even users use wrong engine oils in them and start complaining of engine issues. There are THP users that are enjoying theirs.
Lion-King Monk.
The gentleman worked at PSA HQ in Rueil-Malmaison, I wonder if Google knows something we don't?
The 'Prince' moniker was already being used by journalists in 2008 writing about the BMW R56 Mini engine.
//paultan.org/2008/05/07/bmw-to-use-bmw-psa-prince-engines-in-bmws
In the 2012 ETI Engine awards the winner of the 1.4 to 1.8 engine was accepted by
Johann Schopp, chief engineer for Prince engine, BMW.
and
Laurent Chabot, project leader for gasoline engine development, PSA Peugeot Citroen.
In the history of Hams Hall we find
From 2006: A new generation of engines for MINI.
In September 2006, the Hams Hall plant expanded its remit with production of an additional, second engine family, supplying the MINI brand and the Oxford production plant for the very first time. An all-new production facility was installed to produce this brand-new engine family, internal code name ‘Prince’, alongside existing NG4 engine production.
google search a few more cv's finds a circa 2006 job title of
BMW Hams Hall Motoren GmbH
Prince Engine Manufacturing Project
So like seasink surmised, looks like 'Prince' was an BMW internal moniker that BMW Mini journalists latched onto and eventually it became the common name.
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excellent point. Since the inception of the Prince engine, many parts have been redesigned and replaced. Manufacturers now are using three cylinder turbo engines also. That’s the way it’s going alas. However, from 2013 the PSA prince has become much more reliable. I know a few Mercs, Jags, and other expensive motors that also have issues. Oh well!
Re V6 engines. I also own a Nissan Maxima J32 (2013) as a country cruiser. It has NISSAN‘s wonderful 24 valve VQ25DE V6. The sweetest smoothest running honey of an engine. 2.5 litres. On country runs it gets 38 mpg.
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Thank you all for the discussion.
We finally opened up the engine and it appears this belt is falling apart. I could pick some pieces off it with my fingernails:
Oil (apparently changed in first week of October) is thik and dark and was found with pieces or something which I believe is this very belt:
Cut open the oil filter and it too seems to be clogged a bit with sludge:
We finally opened up the engine and it appears this belt is falling apart. I could pick some pieces off it with my fingernails:
Oil (apparently changed in first week of October) is thik and dark and was found with pieces or something which I believe is this very belt:
Cut open the oil filter and it too seems to be clogged a bit with sludge:
Isn't that the 3 cylinder Puretech engine? If you are doing this yourself, you will need to drop the lower sump to clean the oil pickup, check the vacuum pump oil feed and the oil solenoid with that sort of debris present. You really should talk to a dealer before going any further to 1) check if your Pug is affected by the JZR recall and 2) see if there is any assistance available. There is also some updated tooling that saves on parts and labour.
From what i've seen online it actually seems to be more problematic than the EP6. After speaking with a mechanic I do not believe the later gen EP6 engines are that bad at all. Turned out my rattling chain was caused by low oil! Of course the sensor does not warn you about that until it is far too late. I need to get ahold of some Total oil for top ups. Poured some oil in, changed the tensioner as a precaution and now it's running like a dream again. I know quite a bit about this engine now and how to take care of it, it's definitely not as bad as some make out.
Well I'm a mechanic and I'm telling you it's garbage only been working on these since they came out where did all your oil go out the exhaust and thru the cat that you will be up for I would get a 1.2 before a prince any day
Understand what you are saying. Would not surprise me if the dealer didn't fill it up properly. The mechanic found other minor issues which the dealer never advised me about, and they did not do a proper flush/replace of the coolant either. No wonder the job seemed cheap. Right now though it is running beautifully and i've found a few good independents for servicing. I will keep up with the maintenance and run it for a while yet, its only got just under 80k on the clock.. plenty of life left in it. The mechanic told me he has not done any chains on the T9 308 too. Peugeot are using the Prince in all their current cars so if it's really still that bad, we will be hearing about it in the coming years. But I am not going to worry about it, life is too short. There are many happy owners out there, just maintain and enjoy.
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For the 3 cylinder, that P0011 fault can be the result of the belt debris you have found restricting oil supply. Leave it so the dealer can read it, if you will be taking the Pug there. Excessive oil use could possibly be to do with the oil separator, which is the plastic engine cover / filler unit you have removed to reveal the belt. It is possible that debris and oil sludge has reduced its performance rather than it having some mechanical fault, such as an internal crack, so it might respond to thorough cleaning internally. Unfortunately, what you describe probably does mean you need to remove the inlet manifold and clean around the valves. The factory provides a special cleaning abrasive media and a neutralising solution etc. - same as for the EP6 direct injection. However, many might try less expensive options such as walnut media and/or carefully scrape the carbon away and use carby cleaner.
The timing belt has a change interval of 6 years / 90K, but the tensioner and roller can be left until the following belt change at 12years/180K. These days, a fair proportion of cars are off the road before that.
It should be tolerant of E10 and that's often close to a 95 rating. The handbook will cover fuel.
Thank you all for the knowledge so far. The belt was replaced, no fault codes now but the car still does not drive well. There is no power. So I opened up a few screws and a hose to take a closer look at the turbo/ turbine and it appears to be seized in place (see picture below). I could not move it with my fingers. Turning the engine on does not spin it either - I am not sure if it should spin all the time but for sure I cannot move it with my fingers. I assume this should be freely moving. It looks fairly clean and without any debris to me but may be the previous services might have tried to clean it without telling me about this problem with the turbo and have been diagnosing something else as per the engine codes (belt, camshaft, etc).
I now have to research if I can pull the turbo out myself and take it to someplace where it can be serviced or may have to buy a used unit. As always, appreciate if you have any recommendations.
Thanks,
Kris.
I now have to research if I can pull the turbo out myself and take it to someplace where it can be serviced or may have to buy a used unit. As always, appreciate if you have any recommendations.
Thanks,
Kris.
Yeah, one would imagine the blades would spin freely. I have no knowledge of the turbos on these but I wonder if the oil feed has been blocked and the bearings have just siezed/overheated. Alternatively, looking at the scores in some of the blades maybe something got ingested and wedged?
Exhaust manifold and cat off is the easiest way to remove the turbo still attached. Most turbo places should be able to rebuild the K03 turbo setup without having to wait for parts from France