Is anyone else being driven insane by mowers that don't cut ?

Yep, good as new with a new battery. It incredible the way it spins around trees. It doesn't want to go backwards though. It wedges itself into the ground and spins the wheels if you try to go forward and squeals the clutch cork if you try to go backwards. Anyway, it obvious the front swivel wheels are wedging solid sideways and the pivot from going forward to going backards. I knocked them out and they both have collapsed bearings top and bottom. So at least its an easy fix :) Other than that, good to go. Does anyone want to buy a Rover Rancher :clown:
 
It sounds as though the fuel solenoid was dropping out when the battery was disconnected as jaahn suggested. Leaving just enough in the float bowl to get you out of the shed.
Is the back wheel pivoting OK?. It doesn't appear to have much castor action from the pivot. Is it jamming side-on and stopping reverse progress?
 
309B6D said:
It sounds as though the fuel solenoid was dropping out when the battery was disconnected as jaahn suggested. Leaving just enough in the float bowl to get you out of the shed.
Is the back wheel pivoting OK?. It doesn't appear to have much castor action from the pivot. Is it jamming side-on and stopping reverse progress?
Click to expand...

Yeah, as you go from forward to backward, the front caster wheels need to spin 180degrees... they almost always wedge and 90degrees. then try to dig holes if you try to force it forwards or backwards. I just looked up the bearing size ...

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/328...&terminal_id=dc8a330438f64238a195ec413408529c

there we go ... $10bucks each. I'll have to wait until monday and grab some from the local bearing store. It must have been driving the last owner insane.... Then again, it turns so well, he probably never went backward :confused:
 
I've just been trying to clean up those housings for the new bearings ... You know, I had to drive a sleeve out of one side. It look like the owner had a sleeve turned down in a lathe to use rather than the bearing on one side... but its dried out and dirty and isn't allowing the wheel to rotate..... and I think I know why. this isn't a standard bearing and it probably not available anywhere other than from china (link above). I think I'll need to grind out the swivel shafts from the caster assembly and turn them down to 17mm in the lathe so a standard bearing will fit.

SizeInner DimensionOuter DimensionWidthDynamic(Cr)Static(Cor)Weight(lb)
62001030911475350.070
620112321015336860.077
620215351117208360.099
6203174012215410750.141

A 6203 should fit if the inner shaft is 2mm thinner. So I'll need to grind the weld out... punch the shaft out, turn it down then weld the shafts back in. Should be simple enough :)
 
DoubleChevron said:
I've just been trying to clean up those housings for the new bearings ... You know, I had to drive a sleeve out of one side. It look like the owner had a sleeve turned down in a lathe to use rather than the bearing on one side... but its dried out and dirty and isn't allowing the wheel to rotate..... and I think I know why. this isn't a standard bearing and it probably not available anywhere other than from china (link above). I think I'll need to grind out the swivel shafts from the caster assembly and turn them down to 17mm in the lathe so a standard bearing will fit.

SizeInner DimensionOuter DimensionWidthDynamic(Cr)Static(Cor)Weight(lb)
62001030911475350.070
620112321015336860.077
620215351117208360.099
6203174012215410750.141

A 6203 should fit if the inner shaft is 2mm thinner. So I'll need to grind the weld out... punch the shaft out, turn it down then weld the shafts back in. Should be simple enough :)
Click to expand...
Did you get the part number off the old bearing or did you measure the old bearing for the dimensions.
Just that 3/4"×40×12 isn't an uncommon bearing and the difference between 3/4" and 19mm is only 0.05mm.
 
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Greenpeace said:
Did you get the part number off the old bearing or did you measure the old bearing for the dimensions.
Just that 3/4"×40×12 isn't an uncommon bearing and the difference between 3/4" and 19mm is only 0.05mm.
Click to expand...
Oh .... I measured both the remains of the old bearings and the housings/pivots. The shaft is 19, the housing is 40 .... Wow, you have just made my life really easy :) I wonder if the bearing place would have picked up on that with my metric measurements! The last person actually turned up a steel bush in a lathe as they obviously couldn't find this bearing for one side :eek:
 
DoubleChevron said:
Oh .... I measured both the remains of the old bearings and the housings/pivots. The shaft is 19, the housing is 40 .... Wow, you have just made my life really easy :) I wonder if the bearing place would have picked up on that with my metric measurements! The last person actually turned up a steel bush in a lathe as they obviously couldn't find this bearing for one side :eek:
Click to expand...
It would depend if the bearing guy had his hat on backwards or not.😉
 
You'll probably find any bearing on your mower that is on an axle or pivot fabricated from solid bar will have an internal bore of inch increments.
Being Aussie made they would have just been lopping bits off a length of bright bar as required; (or 4340 if you're really lucky).

Funnily enough (after much fruitless searching) something I found you can't purchase off the shelf is 17mm round bar. You can't buy bolts with a 17mm shank either. I needed a piece earlier in the year (all 150mm of it) and ended up having to turn a section of 18mm bar down to 17mm.

Even funnier while I was building up the little transfer box (that the 17mm bar was for) a discarded rear axle out of a motor cycle (I had wrecked it a month earlier for parts) caught my eye laying on the back corner of the bench.
It was 230mm long, and the diameter, you guessed it, 17mm.🙄
 
Greenpeace said:
You'll probably find any bearing on your mower that is on an axle or pivot fabricated from solid bar will have an internal bore of inch increments.
Being Aussie made they would have just been lopping bits off a length of bright bar as required; (or 4340 if you're really lucky).

Funnily enough (after much fruitless searching) something I found you can't purchase off the shelf is 17mm round bar. You can't buy bolts with a 17mm shank either. I needed a piece earlier in the year (all 150mm of it) and ended up having to turn a section of 18mm bar down to 17mm.

Even funnier while I was building up the little transfer box (that the 17mm bar was for) a discarded rear axle out of a motor cycle (I had wrecked it a month earlier for parts) caught my eye laying on the back corner of the bench.
It was 230mm long, and the diameter, you guessed it, 17mm.🙄
Click to expand...

I just don't know what we all did before the internet. Without someone to say "try 3/4 inch" I'd never have thought of it. After all why on earth would we ever use imperial measurements with metric. I would have expected to see in the standard bearing tables, 40mm x 19.05mm x 12mm .... Or maybe I'm just crazy :rolleyes: :ROFLMAO:
 
Shane
If you need any spares for your AMC, I might be able to help. I have one I have owned since new, and another dead one for spares. Mine is an Explorer, the deck is underneath not in front, but many bits will be the same. Any bits I have that you need will be dirt cheap or free. No engine parts, but deck parts, transmission parts, etc I might be able to help.
Also Sparks Ag in Penshurst Vic specialize in AMCs, including getting some bits re-manufactured.

Slipping in reverse is common, the manual says it means the drive belt is too loose, but it isn't just that. Adjusting the cork clutches (adjusting the clearances and the fork travel) is critical, you can get the clutch fork arm hitting the spinning discs when you press the pedal hard if it isn't set up just right. (clang-clang-clang.) I now have a Greenfield, one of the last of the "real" Greenfields, and the similar transmission works much better, the AMC is quite rough in comparison.
I had problems with slipping the drive belts, I phoned the manufacturer before they went bust, they said belt choice is critical, and recommended Black Optibelt. I always used Optibelts and found them much better than belts supplied by mower shops, I got mine from a bearing supplier in Latrobe St Ballarat, so not far from you I'd imagine. My place is very steep so if your land is flatter you won't have the same problems. You have to use SPA belts, not regular A-section belts. (normal A's will stretch and burst apart quickly under the torture that AMCs subject them to.)
I have the Explorer manual if you need anything looked up.
 
simca1100 said:
Shane
If you need any spares for your AMC, I might be able to help. I have one I have owned since new, and another dead one for spares. Mine is an Explorer, the deck is underneath not in front, but many bits will be the same. Any bits I have that you need will be dirt cheap or free. No engine parts, but deck parts, transmission parts, etc I might be able to help.
Also Sparks Ag in Penshurst Vic specialize in AMCs, including getting some bits re-manufactured.

Slipping in reverse is common, the manual says it means the drive belt is too loose, but it isn't just that. Adjusting the cork clutches (adjusting the clearances and the fork travel) is critical, you can get the clutch fork arm hitting the spinning discs when you press the pedal hard if it isn't set up just right. (clang-clang-clang.) I now have a Greenfield, one of the last of the "real" Greenfields, and the similar transmission works much better, the AMC is quite rough in comparison.
I had problems with slipping the drive belts, I phoned the manufacturer before they went bust, they said belt choice is critical, and recommended Black Optibelt. I always used Optibelts and found them much better than belts supplied by mower shops, I got mine from a bearing supplier in Latrobe St Ballarat, so not far from you I'd imagine. My place is very steep so if your land is flatter you won't have the same problems. You have to use SPA belts, not regular A-section belts. (normal A's will stretch and burst apart quickly under the torture that AMCs subject them to.)
I have the Explorer manual if you need anything looked up.
Click to expand...

Thanks for that. does your manual detail how to set the clutch packs. The cork looks quite thick, so I don't think they need replacing (though it is online for about $40 for a pair of replacement corks).

with regards to the power of the clutch packs.... The rover rancher is no better than this one I'd say. it never feels particularly strong. Greenfield would certainly be the best (just not the one we had years ago ... it was re-corked and so hard to use we bent the pivot shaft, and your leg would ache from holding the pressure on... I'd say whoever re-did the drive, used the wrong cork).

Funny you mention ballart bearings. I replaced the cutter belt as it looked aged. When he saw the belt he said "whats its from" .... "You will have never heard of it, its an old mower that no longer exists"..... As soon as I said AMC ... "there is three types... we sell plenty of them". Then he measured it and said .... "Oh, I've never seen this before, are you sure its AMC ? ... So there is 4types". I'd say they sold hardly any of the deck out front models so he hasn't supplied a belt before. He was particular about brand choice now you metion it and discarded the first few as "no not that brand". I'm guessing its you that has educated him :jig::thanks:
 
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COL said:
Something like this.

https://www.bearingscanada.com/6203...-x-40x12-p/6203-2rs-12-3-4-0750-id-3-4401.htm

I have learned something today, didn't know you could get a bearing with a mix of imperial and metric measurements.
Click to expand...
They are not uncommon in power transmission technology.

Most pulleys and sprockets come with an imperial bore size. Most drive shafts are made from imperial round bar. Most bearing housings are now metric, hence the need to blend the two via the bearing measurements.
Small engines usually have a 7/8" or 1" output shaft.

The subject of imperial measurements came up on another thread a few months ago. People don't realise how much they are still ingrained in our day to day lives; from shoe size to aircraft altitude, and everything in between.😉
 
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DoubleChevron said:
40mm x 19.05mm x 12mm .... Or maybe I'm just crazy :rolleyes: :ROFLMAO:
Click to expand...
19.05mm???? It's 3/4" dammit.😉

Another example (that's right under our noses) of "blending" metric and imperial is car tyres.
The rim (bore size) is imperial and the other dimensions are metric.
 
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No, the manual is useless on adjusting the clutches. It's more about common DIY tasks like changing belts, adjusting the brakes and drive chain, replacing blades, greasing and so on. I've been told they never published a real workshop manual, just this owner manual, not sure if that's right.
Mine is I think newer than yours, AFAIK there are 3 main series - series one has the cut off corners on the metal box under the seat (like yours); series 2 has square corners to make the under seat area bigger, this gave them room for larger diameter clutches and the fuel tank was moved under the seat, where it gets in the way for servicing and is a pain in the arse to remove. There was a series 3 which was painted a lighter shade of lime green, I don't know the technical differences but they look quite different. Mine is a very early series 2, the spare parts one is a late series 2.
I have found in the past - slop anywhere in the linkages between clutch fork and pedal makes it awful to use - if there is free travel in the linkages, when going forward your foot tilts to an uncomfortable angle before anything happens or in reverse, the pedal hits the deck before you get any motion at the wheels. Look for wear where the long rod meets the pedal, and at the rear where the rod meets the weird shaped clutch fork. I had to make up a bush to take up wear in the hole the rod attaches to.
The fork assembly mounts with a big steel plate on the assembly bolted to a similar plate welded to the mower frame. There are adjustment slots to allow you to move the clutch sideways and up/down. If the clutch fork is too high or low, it makes the sliding centre part of the clutches bind on the square shaft that runs through them. This makes a cranky sticky clutch.
If the fork assembly is too far left or right, it means the clutch fork arm will rub on one of the spinning disks if you push hard on the pedal, it makes a terrible scraping clunking sound that goes away if you ease off the pedal. The clutch fork pivots around a single bolt, adjusting the length of that bolt is critical - too loose and it is sloppy, the poor design of the forks means if the pivot bolt is loose, the fork tilts sideways and puts a twisting force on the centre bearing that makes the clutch sticky. (This is because the clutch fork includes a long sideways arm to connect to the pedal linkage, the weight of the arm twists the fork sideways unless the pivot bolt is nipped up enough to stop it. Of course the pivot bolt is a ba$tard to get at to adjust. You have to adjust 2 locknuts down where you can't see them and there is stuff all room to swing a spanner or fit a hand. But you are used to working on Citroens... If the bolt is too tight, the pivot binds and the clutch gets sticky again. You want just enough clearance for it to pivot freely with no drag.
If the centre bearing is tight or knackered, it squawks when you change from forward to backward. The noise is the outer race of the bearing rubbing on the clutch fork.
You must keep the clutch fork adjusted right, it shouldn't need doing often. The temptation is to stand hard on the pedal to overcome slipping, but the fork can bend or crack if you overdo it. I got a replacement once and it was built heavier-duty than the original - fork tips were reinforced and the fork arm was heavier steel.

As I think yours is a series 1, you might have more room around the transmission - they had smaller diameter clutch discs so there is more room under there. The later ones had bigger clutches to extend the life and to control slipping, but I reckon it possibly created as many headaches as it solved...

An AMC mower is a solidly built beast, but I wonder if any engineers were involved in designing it, it reminds me of something Grandpa knocked up in the shed...

here's the link to Sparks Ag AMC spares: http://www.sparksag.com.au/our-products/amc-mower--chipp-parts
 
simca1100 said:
No, the manual is useless on adjusting the clutches. It's more about common DIY tasks like changing belts, adjusting the brakes and drive chain, replacing blades, greasing and so on. I've been told they never published a real workshop manual, just this owner manual, not sure if that's right.
Mine is I think newer than yours, AFAIK there are 3 main series - series one has the cut off corners on the metal box under the seat (like yours); series 2 has square corners to make the under seat area bigger, this gave them room for larger diameter clutches and the fuel tank was moved under the seat, where it gets in the way for servicing and is a pain in the arse to remove. There was a series 3 which was painted a lighter shade of lime green, I don't know the technical differences but they look quite different. Mine is a very early series 2, the spare parts one is a late series 2.
I have found in the past - slop anywhere in the linkages between clutch fork and pedal makes it awful to use - if there is free travel in the linkages, when going forward your foot tilts to an uncomfortable angle before anything happens or in reverse, the pedal hits the deck before you get any motion at the wheels. Look for wear where the long rod meets the pedal, and at the rear where the rod meets the weird shaped clutch fork. I had to make up a bush to take up wear in the hole the rod attaches to.
The fork assembly mounts with a big steel plate on the assembly bolted to a similar plate welded to the mower frame. There are adjustment slots to allow you to move the clutch sideways and up/down. If the clutch fork is too high or low, it makes the sliding centre part of the clutches bind on the square shaft that runs through them. This makes a cranky sticky clutch.
If the fork assembly is too far left or right, it means the clutch fork arm will rub on one of the spinning disks if you push hard on the pedal, it makes a terrible scraping clunking sound that goes away if you ease off the pedal. The clutch fork pivots around a single bolt, adjusting the length of that bolt is critical - too loose and it is sloppy, the poor design of the forks means if the pivot bolt is loose, the fork tilts sideways and puts a twisting force on the centre bearing that makes the clutch sticky. (This is because the clutch fork includes a long sideways arm to connect to the pedal linkage, the weight of the arm twists the fork sideways unless the pivot bolt is nipped up enough to stop it. Of course the pivot bolt is a ba$tard to get at to adjust. You have to adjust 2 locknuts down where you can't see them and there is stuff all room to swing a spanner or fit a hand. But you are used to working on Citroens... If the bolt is too tight, the pivot binds and the clutch gets sticky again. You want just enough clearance for it to pivot freely with no drag.
If the centre bearing is tight or knackered, it squawks when you change from forward to backward. The noise is the outer race of the bearing rubbing on the clutch fork.
You must keep the clutch fork adjusted right, it shouldn't need doing often. The temptation is to stand hard on the pedal to overcome slipping, but the fork can bend or crack if you overdo it. I got a replacement once and it was built heavier-duty than the original - fork tips were reinforced and the fork arm was heavier steel.

As I think yours is a series 1, you might have more room around the transmission - they had smaller diameter clutch discs so there is more room under there. The later ones had bigger clutches to extend the life and to control slipping, but I reckon it possibly created as many headaches as it solved...

An AMC mower is a solidly built beast, but I wonder if any engineers were involved in designing it, it reminds me of something Grandpa knocked up in the shed...

here's the link to Sparks Ag AMC spares: http://www.sparksag.com.au/our-products/amc-mower--chipp-parts
Click to expand...

Wow ... I was thinking this one probably had a million hours on it ... after reading this, I'm thinking not. Everything seems to work fine. None of the bearings are noisy, both clutches work fine (its just the front caster wheels were wedging at 90degrees). The chains and everything under it look to be covered with surface rust from sitting, but I'll lubricate. This mower seems to have had a very fastidious owner... I'm thinking the attachment on the side of it is to lift the mower by and tilt it to clean it underneath after each use :confused:

I'm sure I'll be begging for you help within a short time though :clown:

seeya
Shane L.
 
last bit of advice - if the clutch is working properly - leave it alone!

Mine has about 700 hours up, but they were all hard hours. Steep, uneven ground, mowing hidden tree roots, long tough grass, etc.
 
Oh, the drive chain to the rear axle is a beast too. A round plastic eccentric rubs on the chain as a crude tensioner, I think it was designed originally to be held by a single bolt, you would slacken the bolt, turn the plastic circle to adjust till the chain is taut, tighten the bolt. Except it didn't work, the chain put enough pressure on the plastic cam to turn it. So they added another bolt, at 90 degrees, as a "blocking bolt" for want of a better term. (I don't know what the correct term is.) It puts the bolt between the plastic cam and a welded lug on the frame, you adjust the bolt to lengthen till it presses hard on the plastic cam and stops it from slackening the chain. It is difficult to get at, half hidden by the wheel. (Easy to do if you remove the right drive wheel.) So you have to slacken the locknut on the blocking bolt, back off the other nut to shorten the blocking bolt and get it out the way, then undo the big bolt that holds the plastic cam (huge nyloc nut), then turn the plastic cam to tension the chain. The chain rubs hard against the plastic and wears a groove in it, you can remove the cam, turn it around the other way to put the unworn surface against the chain, then retighten/refit the big nut and the blocking bolt. Sparks have replacement plastic cams.
 
simca1100 said:
Oh, the drive chain to the rear axle is a beast too. A round plastic eccentric rubs on the chain as a crude tensioner, I think it was designed originally to be held by a single bolt, you would slacken the bolt, turn the plastic circle to adjust till the chain is taut, tighten the bolt. Except it didn't work, the chain put enough pressure on the plastic cam to turn it. So they added another bolt, at 90 degrees, as a "blocking bolt" for want of a better term. (I don't know what the correct term is.) It puts the bolt between the plastic cam and a welded lug on the frame, you adjust the bolt to lengthen till it presses hard on the plastic cam and stops it from slackening the chain. It is difficult to get at, half hidden by the wheel. (Easy to do if you remove the right drive wheel.) So you have to slacken the locknut on the blocking bolt, back off the other nut to shorten the blocking bolt and get it out the way, then undo the big bolt that holds the plastic cam (huge nyloc nut), then turn the plastic cam to tension the chain. The chain rubs hard against the plastic and wears a groove in it, you can remove the cam, turn it around the other way to put the unworn surface against the chain, then retighten/refit the big nut and the blocking bolt. Sparks have replacement plastic cams.
Click to expand...

This mower so far looks to be the easiest mower invented to work on. I'll take some photos later so you can see. Everything including the motor is swinging in the breeze where you can get to it. it took me 30seconds to change the cutter belt. The drive belt looks ok, so I'm not touching it for now.

I'll have a look at the chain tensioner when I lubricate all the dry chains under it. What do you use for chain lube ? I've always wondered if oil is good for mower chains, is it'll pick up the grass and dirt and become a abbrasive.
 
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