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Do you think they would be able to carry on business as independent operators, or is it not possible?
INCHCAPE To Show Us How To Sell Citroens?
- Thread starter Greg
- Start date
Do you think they would be able to carry on business as independent operators, or is it not possible?
I've no way of knowing. The premises aren't large by dealer standards, but are dealer-smart and recently refurbished.
The late Leo Geoghegan ran a much smaller operation in Sydney for a long time, selling only French cars, with Paul Vassallo running the workshop.
The late Leo Geoghegan ran a much smaller operation in Sydney for a long time, selling only French cars, with Paul Vassallo running the workshop.
Inchcape - future plans for PSA products
Hi Greg,
Great post - the situation really saddens me also, as I have been dealing with the Citroen people that you refer to since 1974.
You would think that it is just plain common sense that Inchcape would select those dealers who have their loyal customers, and many invaluable years of corporate memory, and include them in their dealership network as Citroen/Peugeot/DS specialists.
Inchcape own Trivett (Inchcape Australia - Trivett Automotive Retail - Queensland Retail Centres) which has an extensive dealer network covering many brands. The (former) Canberra Citroen, Peugeot, DS dealer, who had just opened a new showroom, tells me that Trivett will be doing all the warranty work; they will continue to service the PSA brands.
Inchcape did build Subaru from virtually nothing into the very strong brand that it is today. I hope they can do the same with the PSA products, but it seems they are divesting themselves of their best assets in doing so.
PSA are putting out some excellent new cars - eg the Peugeot 3008, C5 Aircrosse, C3, C3 Aircrosse,, DS7, DS5 new C4 Cactus, etc..
PSA was the best selling manufacturer in France for the first half of 2017 (https://www.best-selling-cars.com/f...-selling-car-manufacturers-brands-and-models/), well ahead of Renault, so there is plenty of strength in the product line up - especially as Citroen is being allowed to focus on its avant garde design strengths to differentiate it from other vehicles, the DS5 being an excellent example.
As a happy owner of a DS5 and a C4VTS I await with interest to see how all this transition is resolved.
But I know who will be doing all my servicing.
RobL
Hi Greg,
Great post - the situation really saddens me also, as I have been dealing with the Citroen people that you refer to since 1974.
You would think that it is just plain common sense that Inchcape would select those dealers who have their loyal customers, and many invaluable years of corporate memory, and include them in their dealership network as Citroen/Peugeot/DS specialists.
Inchcape own Trivett (Inchcape Australia - Trivett Automotive Retail - Queensland Retail Centres) which has an extensive dealer network covering many brands. The (former) Canberra Citroen, Peugeot, DS dealer, who had just opened a new showroom, tells me that Trivett will be doing all the warranty work; they will continue to service the PSA brands.
Inchcape did build Subaru from virtually nothing into the very strong brand that it is today. I hope they can do the same with the PSA products, but it seems they are divesting themselves of their best assets in doing so.
PSA are putting out some excellent new cars - eg the Peugeot 3008, C5 Aircrosse, C3, C3 Aircrosse,, DS7, DS5 new C4 Cactus, etc..
PSA was the best selling manufacturer in France for the first half of 2017 (https://www.best-selling-cars.com/f...-selling-car-manufacturers-brands-and-models/), well ahead of Renault, so there is plenty of strength in the product line up - especially as Citroen is being allowed to focus on its avant garde design strengths to differentiate it from other vehicles, the DS5 being an excellent example.
As a happy owner of a DS5 and a C4VTS I await with interest to see how all this transition is resolved.
But I know who will be doing all my servicing.
RobL
The network of Subaru dealers must be very extensive so I suppose Citroen will be given a much greater exposure to the car market.
As I see it, the key aspects to this are:
1. what is PSA's (France) strategy for product supply to Australia / Australasia / Oceania (i.e. which vehicles in its Citroen / Peugeot range will it configure to meet the relevant ADRs)?
2. what options does PSA France have for motor vehicle distribution in this geographic region?
3. assuming the business case for direct PSA distribution doesn't stack up, how many commercially viable motor vehicle distributors are there in Australia (from which PSA might make a choice)?
4. what choices are available to the incumbent (Inchcape) in dealing with existing franchisees and new ones; and
5. what value judgements will Inchcape make in dealing with those stakeholders and others (not least its existing Citroen and Peugeot customers)?
1. what is PSA's (France) strategy for product supply to Australia / Australasia / Oceania (i.e. which vehicles in its Citroen / Peugeot range will it configure to meet the relevant ADRs)?
2. what options does PSA France have for motor vehicle distribution in this geographic region?
3. assuming the business case for direct PSA distribution doesn't stack up, how many commercially viable motor vehicle distributors are there in Australia (from which PSA might make a choice)?
4. what choices are available to the incumbent (Inchcape) in dealing with existing franchisees and new ones; and
5. what value judgements will Inchcape make in dealing with those stakeholders and others (not least its existing Citroen and Peugeot customers)?
Certainly, any dealer network culling long-term dealers risks a loss of experience in the dealer network. Holden sacked 30 of its dealers, some long-established and the only dealer in a regional centre. Some of those pushed out will continue to offer their services to their customers, but no longer as a franchised dealer. Others will walk away from the product entirely, leaving fewer options for aftersales service.
There are some relevant background articles re PSA/Inchcape at goauto. To pick just two of them:
Peugeot, Citroen begin long climb back - GoAutoNews Premium
Inchcape plans dealer cull - GoAutoNews Premium
It's worth remembering that owners in Australia are not obliged to use a franchised dealer for service (including capped price offers) to protect their warranty and/or extended warranty, which is a common misconception. It may help, but it is not essential. Owners do have a choice. This is worth a read:
https://www.choice.com.au/transport/cars/maintenance/articles/car-warranties-and-dealer-servicing
Citroen Australia is still offering the 6 year warranty on Picasso for vehicles sold to mid-December for anyone keen. There would still be demos and even some new stock that would come with the balance of a 6 year warranty, so it's a matter of asking the dealer. There is a sales event in the next week for both Pug and Citroen. No doubt the person trying to flog the cars will be aware of the options to extend the warranty. I believe Pug still has an older stock overhang, so there might be an opportunity to pick up a bargain that's had a few birthdays in storage.
There are some relevant background articles re PSA/Inchcape at goauto. To pick just two of them:
Peugeot, Citroen begin long climb back - GoAutoNews Premium
Inchcape plans dealer cull - GoAutoNews Premium
It's worth remembering that owners in Australia are not obliged to use a franchised dealer for service (including capped price offers) to protect their warranty and/or extended warranty, which is a common misconception. It may help, but it is not essential. Owners do have a choice. This is worth a read:
https://www.choice.com.au/transport/cars/maintenance/articles/car-warranties-and-dealer-servicing
Citroen Australia is still offering the 6 year warranty on Picasso for vehicles sold to mid-December for anyone keen. There would still be demos and even some new stock that would come with the balance of a 6 year warranty, so it's a matter of asking the dealer. There is a sales event in the next week for both Pug and Citroen. No doubt the person trying to flog the cars will be aware of the options to extend the warranty. I believe Pug still has an older stock overhang, so there might be an opportunity to pick up a bargain that's had a few birthdays in storage.
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Above is the message loud and clear. Improve sales. And there will be no loyalty to anyone and the KPI is the number of vehicles you sell.
That sales figure overlooks the fact that several dealers would have accounted for a good portion of the total. There'd be a few ones and twos each month in there. Change was required, but using raw sales would be misleading for at least the Citroen dealers when a substantial portion of the Citroen model lineup (DS (3,4,5), C4, Picasso 5 seat, C5, C3 ...) has been progressively culled. 3008, 5008, new C3 and 2018 restyled Cactus should assist the continuing dealers, but they are arriving too late for others. Non-metro dealers like Cullens could be expected to knock out 30/month under the Inchcape plan. You locals better start liking new PSA products!
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I'd still suggest total sales of 200 per month is not economically viable for a distributor.
What management are saying is they don't care who suffers they just want the sales.
And dealer loyalty shown by buyers in the past will soon go out the window when it's impossible to buy the car you want from your previous "loyal and experienced dealer "
Inchcape have the authority and are welding it mercilessly. They have nothing to lose.
It not a nice way to treat dealers but it reflects the desperate situation that Peugeot and Citroen are in and the "accounting" approach to selling cars.
What management are saying is they don't care who suffers they just want the sales.
And dealer loyalty shown by buyers in the past will soon go out the window when it's impossible to buy the car you want from your previous "loyal and experienced dealer "
Inchcape have the authority and are welding it mercilessly. They have nothing to lose.
It not a nice way to treat dealers but it reflects the desperate situation that Peugeot and Citroen are in and the "accounting" approach to selling cars.
I wasn't disagreeing with the conclusion. The volume chart in one of those goauto article shows the decline clearly. It's even worse when you consider that is 200 units/month spread across a fairly diverse range. I don't think anyone has been contending the current level is adequate.
Related to this discussion around the vehicle range, I was in Paris a couple of weeks ago and looked at the DS7 in the DS showroom. I was really impressed by it - the interior is beautifully styled and the whole cabin is roomy including for rear passengers.
top of the range model costs 60,000€,
An electric version will follow as well as the DS8 - sounds like they won’t be available here unfortunately
top of the range model costs 60,000€,
An electric version will follow as well as the DS8 - sounds like they won’t be available here unfortunately
I have been a French car nut all my life, owned several Renaults, a Citroen, a Simca and lastly a Peugeot, a 307. Bought it new in 2007. When it got to 10 years old I was ready for a new car and was leaning towards a new shape 308. My partner was against getting another Peugeot after a couple of bad experiences with dealer servicing:
1. Early months of ownership, handbrake was coming all the way up and not gripping well. I asked for it to be adjusted and was told there was no adjustment, I must have yanked too hard and stretched the cable, replacement would be at my cost. I said all cables stretch and there would be an adjustment somewhere, their reply was I didn't know what I was talking about. I went home, googled it, found adjustment nuts are in the console, easily accessed by removing the rear ashtray. (Actually a neat design.)
2. Front tie rod end needed replacement at about 30,000 km. I asked for warranty replacement, was told it was a wearable item, not covered by warranty. When, coincidentally, my partner's Skoda needed a tie rod end replaced at about 50,00 km, they not only replaced the worn one, but the other one as well -" just in case there was a bad batch" under warranty with no quibbling.
3. later in the 307's life, fuel consumption increased suddenly from low 5's to over 6 and it didn't seem as responsive. (Vague symptoms...) I asked for them to plug in the diagnostic computer just to see if there were any error codes stored as I wasn't sure if there really was a problem or not. I was told it would cost $250. I said "no, I just want you to see if there are any codes, not do any actual repair" and they said yes, that is $250. Incredulous, I left and took it to a non-dealer Euro car specialist. He plugged in his gizmo for no charge, It said MAF sensor open circuit, so he got the job to replace it and got all future servicing.
I still looked at the 308 wagon but I couldn't get a lower-spec car with the 1.2 triple engine in a wagon, only a high spec car with too many extras and a too big petrol engine with poor fuel economy for a very high price, or a diesel for an even higher price. There was no direct replacement for my 307 XS 1.6 HDI wagon. The nearest Pug was almost $40,000 and the Diesel over $40,000.
That convinced me to look elsewhere, Skoda Octavia was almost there but getting the options I wanted without others I didn't want was impossible, so I ended up with a VW Golf comfortline wagon with driver assist pack (extra safety gear mainly) and towbar for $29000. Peugeot couldn't get close.
Marketers are full of their own BS, it drives me crazy. They think it is all about logos and messaging and having coffee machines in the showroom. They need to listen to their customers and supply what the customers are asking for, and then having gained their business, not piss them off.
Mitsubishi Australia was another example with the Magna. They had a nice little market niche selling a car with vast interior space in a modest exterior package, with a four cylinder engine suggesting moderate fuel consumption. The car drove well and was popular with practical, unpretentious people. My Mum had a 1990 TP sedan, I liked it and bought a later model wagon (a 1993 TR.) But the marketing department were unhappy that the car wasn't perceived as "cool", it was dismissed as a car for "cardigan wearers." Each successive change alienated their loyal owners, trying to make it appeal to Commodore buyers, which it never did. Mid 90s Magnas had high sides, smaller windows giving a more enclosed, less roomy feel; Wagons lost the split-folding rear seat, said to be for improved safety but lost a practicality feature; manual transmissions not available on wagons any more; four cylinder engines replaced with a smooth running six that slurped the fuel if you even breathed on the accelerator. I test drove a TW but when the instantaneous fuel economy reading hit 38 l/100 km as I took off, I took it straight back and replaced my much loved TR Magna 4 cyl manual wagon with...... a new Peugeot 307 diesel....
I worked in hospitality all my working life. We were told early, if you have customers seated and waiting for you and the phone rings, your priority is the customer you already have. You don't piss off customers you already have, chasing ones you might never get. A concept lost on certain car distributors it seems...
1. Early months of ownership, handbrake was coming all the way up and not gripping well. I asked for it to be adjusted and was told there was no adjustment, I must have yanked too hard and stretched the cable, replacement would be at my cost. I said all cables stretch and there would be an adjustment somewhere, their reply was I didn't know what I was talking about. I went home, googled it, found adjustment nuts are in the console, easily accessed by removing the rear ashtray. (Actually a neat design.)
2. Front tie rod end needed replacement at about 30,000 km. I asked for warranty replacement, was told it was a wearable item, not covered by warranty. When, coincidentally, my partner's Skoda needed a tie rod end replaced at about 50,00 km, they not only replaced the worn one, but the other one as well -" just in case there was a bad batch" under warranty with no quibbling.
3. later in the 307's life, fuel consumption increased suddenly from low 5's to over 6 and it didn't seem as responsive. (Vague symptoms...) I asked for them to plug in the diagnostic computer just to see if there were any error codes stored as I wasn't sure if there really was a problem or not. I was told it would cost $250. I said "no, I just want you to see if there are any codes, not do any actual repair" and they said yes, that is $250. Incredulous, I left and took it to a non-dealer Euro car specialist. He plugged in his gizmo for no charge, It said MAF sensor open circuit, so he got the job to replace it and got all future servicing.
I still looked at the 308 wagon but I couldn't get a lower-spec car with the 1.2 triple engine in a wagon, only a high spec car with too many extras and a too big petrol engine with poor fuel economy for a very high price, or a diesel for an even higher price. There was no direct replacement for my 307 XS 1.6 HDI wagon. The nearest Pug was almost $40,000 and the Diesel over $40,000.
That convinced me to look elsewhere, Skoda Octavia was almost there but getting the options I wanted without others I didn't want was impossible, so I ended up with a VW Golf comfortline wagon with driver assist pack (extra safety gear mainly) and towbar for $29000. Peugeot couldn't get close.
Marketers are full of their own BS, it drives me crazy. They think it is all about logos and messaging and having coffee machines in the showroom. They need to listen to their customers and supply what the customers are asking for, and then having gained their business, not piss them off.
Mitsubishi Australia was another example with the Magna. They had a nice little market niche selling a car with vast interior space in a modest exterior package, with a four cylinder engine suggesting moderate fuel consumption. The car drove well and was popular with practical, unpretentious people. My Mum had a 1990 TP sedan, I liked it and bought a later model wagon (a 1993 TR.) But the marketing department were unhappy that the car wasn't perceived as "cool", it was dismissed as a car for "cardigan wearers." Each successive change alienated their loyal owners, trying to make it appeal to Commodore buyers, which it never did. Mid 90s Magnas had high sides, smaller windows giving a more enclosed, less roomy feel; Wagons lost the split-folding rear seat, said to be for improved safety but lost a practicality feature; manual transmissions not available on wagons any more; four cylinder engines replaced with a smooth running six that slurped the fuel if you even breathed on the accelerator. I test drove a TW but when the instantaneous fuel economy reading hit 38 l/100 km as I took off, I took it straight back and replaced my much loved TR Magna 4 cyl manual wagon with...... a new Peugeot 307 diesel....
I worked in hospitality all my working life. We were told early, if you have customers seated and waiting for you and the phone rings, your priority is the customer you already have. You don't piss off customers you already have, chasing ones you might never get. A concept lost on certain car distributors it seems...
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There seems to be a perception in Australia that car servicing by branded dealers is somehow an operation controlled by the manufacturer.
I wonder how true that is for the various manufacturers involved in selling cars here.
I wonder how true that is for the various manufacturers involved in selling cars here.
Thanks for the links, David - especially the insight from Nick Senior.
As the owner of a 2015 C4 Picasso 5 seater, I am continually amused when motoring journos rabbit on about the features this or that vehicle competitor has while my Picasso sits quietly in the background saying yes, I've got that...and that...and that, etc. I'm surprised it hasn't sold well, as I think it's a great package but, I suspect, part of its problem has been that it has sat quietly in the background.
Of greater immediate concern, my Picasso is due for its second (2 year) service soon. Unlike your Sydneysider compatriots, the incumbent dealer (there's only one in Adelaide) has less extensive Citroen experience and doesn't especially inspire confidence - especially as I understand it is losing the franchise and I'm not aware of any alternative in Adelaide.
It will be interesting to see whether I receive communication from either the new dealer or Inchcape about future servicing and warranty support.
On the point of dealer support, I agree with simca1100 that one doesn't need lots of bells and whistles, just good competent service at a reasonable price. Hopefully the newly appointed Adelaide Citroen dealer will deliver same. Chris
As the owner of a 2015 C4 Picasso 5 seater, I am continually amused when motoring journos rabbit on about the features this or that vehicle competitor has while my Picasso sits quietly in the background saying yes, I've got that...and that...and that, etc. I'm surprised it hasn't sold well, as I think it's a great package but, I suspect, part of its problem has been that it has sat quietly in the background.
Of greater immediate concern, my Picasso is due for its second (2 year) service soon. Unlike your Sydneysider compatriots, the incumbent dealer (there's only one in Adelaide) has less extensive Citroen experience and doesn't especially inspire confidence - especially as I understand it is losing the franchise and I'm not aware of any alternative in Adelaide.
It will be interesting to see whether I receive communication from either the new dealer or Inchcape about future servicing and warranty support.
On the point of dealer support, I agree with simca1100 that one doesn't need lots of bells and whistles, just good competent service at a reasonable price. Hopefully the newly appointed Adelaide Citroen dealer will deliver same. Chris
My car will continue to be serviced at the same place, whether they are part of the dealer network or not.
That's great to hear! I didn't know the Belcar Group was giving up the Citroen franchise, but lets hope the new appointed dealer, if there is one, will be located in a better spot this time round. Would be great if Jarvis picked Citroen up too and then they could combine the two brands, like Inchcape have said they want to make happen. They want Peugeot and Citroen to be together, not stand alone locations.
Superb summary. Couldn't agree more!
I thought Peugeot and Citroen lost the plot somewhat with "ride quality" too after about the 306/406 times. As a customer, I like a comfortable ride, even if the motoring so-called journalists don't seem to remember what it means.
Our Renault Scenics can't be matched by anything on current offer in the French camp (perhaps not in anyone else's for that matter), much like your 307 replacement issue.
I've worked in consulting for many years - same as your area really, with clients...... Call them customers or whatever you want, but you'd better listen to them!
Cheers
Not quite. Ride quality was unsurpassed up to the end of the hydraulic C5s. The B7 incarnation of the C4, while on springs, still has the serene ride of oid. Try one.
The stiffer suspensions so common now are attempts by family cars to be sports cars. The Germans all have this disease. As you say, journalists approve.
The stiffer suspensions so common now are attempts by family cars to be sports cars. The Germans all have this disease. As you say, journalists approve.