INCHCAPE To Show Us How To Sell Citroens?

Not quite. Ride quality was unsurpassed up to the end of the hydraulic C5s. The B7 incarnation of the C4, while on springs, still has the serene ride of oid. Try one.

The stiffer suspensions so common now are attempts by family cars to be sports cars. The Germans all have this disease. As you say, journalists approve.

Fair enough re the C5. I've never ridden in a C4, vers. B7 either. I was shocked though, when I drove across France some years ago in a Xsara Picasso.

Thanks for the comment.
 
9 years ago Citroen designed the C5 X7 to look like, and basically imitate, German vehicles like Audi, Mercedes, BMW. The marketing theme for the new C5 was that it was"unmistakably German" (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GMQnPWjK5pE).

While the C5 X7 was an excellent car, the design had no French "avant garde" characteristics in its attempt to imitate the German product. The problem was that the only significant attribute which distinguished the C5 X7 from the German competition was the hydropneumatic suspension. That was simply not enough to make the C5 a sales success in Germany - or other countries. Why would you buy an imitation when you could buy the real thing? The lack of sales eventually led to the C5X7 being withdrawn from sale in Germany. Customers actually like firmer suspension. Both my C4 VTS and DS5 have perfectly acceptable rides and handle brilliantly. In addition, roads are vastly better today than they were in the 1950s when the hydropneumatic suspension was conceived and designed. PSA seem to have learnt the lesson from the disastrous C5 X7 experience, for example the DS5 being a very "French" design.
 
You really need both .... support the faithful fans:
a) they may buy again
b) they talk to other people

and
expand your market by good advertising + marketing.

Citroen (well, the local agents) has/have a pretty poor record, especially with the first bit.
I had such bad experiences with support with a new Xantia that it came close to shutting down my allegiance.
The frustration being my bias towards Citroens, and separating the Car from the Agents...

Other marques may suffer similar circumstances, but when we had a new Honda, and needed service/warranty, the dealer was exemplary.

I do think that Citroen needs to maintain its focus on ride, ergonomics, innovation, style, comfort...
why compete simply by making your car just a minor variant from the hundreds of others on the market?
Let alone trying to compete on the same turf as BMW and Benz in Germany?
 
Customers actually like firmer suspension. Both my C4 VTS and DS5 have perfectly acceptable rides and handle brilliantly. In addition, roads are vastly better today than they were in the 1950s when the hydropneumatic suspension was conceived and designed. PSA seem to have learnt the lesson from the disastrous C5 X7 experience, for example the DS5 being a very "French" design.

Looking at passenger car sales in October for Germany do you really think PSA are on the right trajectory? Do Germans really want the firmer sporty ride?

The only German marque to improve sales being Mercedes - Audi, BMW, Porsche, and VW all went backwards - On the other hand Citroen sales improved slightly where 'DS' brand fell off dramatically.
http://europe.autonews.com/assets/PDF/CA112929112.PDF

DS Sales All Models
Car sales statistics are from the following countries: Austria, Belgium, Cyprus, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Great Britain, Greece, Hungary, Iceland, Ireland, Italy, Latvia, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Netherlands, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland

2014201520162017
January6,5795,4875,6033,767
February5,9314,8975,2193,309
March11,6149,8239,3636,370
April 8,1886,8515,9243,300
May8,1885,0135,9463,795
June8,4868,3527,6034,513
July6,9945,8454,9243,626
August3,6913,0972,6242,372
September9,2637,6806,4914,685
October5,9335,5333,963
November5,2686,1043,959
December4,7386,4813,837


Cheers
Chris
 
The B7 incarnation of the C4, while on springs, still has the serene ride of oid. Try one.

Absolutely. Drove one for a month in France, on all types of roads and was amazed by the superb suspension. Excellent car the B7.
 
A one month set of data is just a snapshot, and says little or nothing about longer term trends.

For Q1 -Q3 of 2017 the top sellers in Germany were VW, Mercedes, Audi, and BMW, in that order.

The DS brand is still being established in accordance with a long term plan, and there are new models coming. With exception of the new DS7, the present DS range has been around for quite a while, so it is not surprising that sales are down recently. It will be interesting to see how sales go when new DS models come on line.
 
Customers actually like firmer suspension.
Do they really? Whenever anyone has a ride in one of the C5s in my family, or the newish C4, they say how pleasant it is, compared to their Audi, Beemer, Golf,etc. Given a free pick I'll run a C4 around town in preference to a Golf or Audi (all steel sprung).

On the other hand my stiff turbo DS3 never gets a comment about the pleasant ride on any road around here, even though it can tear around the sharpest corners at a rate of knots. A different talent, right for a sports car, but not one particularly important in a standard family car. That said, the DS3 is better on your bottom than a Mini.
 
A one month set of data is just a snapshot, and says little or nothing about longer term trends.

For Q1 -Q3 of 2017 the top sellers in Germany were VW, Mercedes, Audi, and BMW, in that order.

The DS brand is still being established in accordance with a long term plan, and there are new models coming. With exception of the new DS7, the present DS range has been around for quite a while, so it is not surprising that sales are down recently. It will be interesting to see how sales go when new DS models come on line.

Those figures are for a 10 month period, January - October.

See edit in my previous reply the DS brand outside of China has been on a downward spiral since 2014. . .

Edit: Just looked at DS sales in China for the same period - same trend, I certainly hope the 'new' range brings the improvement you predict.
http://carsalesbase.com/china-car-sales-data/ds/


Cheers
Chris
 
Chris,

I hope so too.

After 25,000km driving it, and comparing it with all the other Citroens I have owned, I can vouch that the DS5 is a brilliant car; the "cockpit" is a great place to be.

Regarding ride quality, this article is well worth reading from Car magazine, via Citroenet, where the comment is made that:
"Ride quality, though, is but one element in the sum of comfort". The full article is at: Car Magazine 1971-v-1991 Citroën GSX3-v-Citroën ZX Reflex

I have driven the latest Peugeot 3008, which is a really fine vehicle, and is already having sales success.

I have owned French cars since being a student in the UK in the 70s - Ami6, ID19s, DS23, XM Series 1 and 2, C5X7, C4VTS (current), DS5 (current), Berlingo (current) and I wish them well for the future, and I hope Inchcape brings new life to the marque in Australia - although I don't believe getting rid of their best dealer is the right way to start; quite the opposite.

RobL
 
When it comes to ride comfort in vehicles, it is important to match the country of origin to the peoples shapes, particularly their bums. In the countries with taller people with skinny bums, car seat comfort reigns supreme - France, UK. In countries with solid people with big bums, the occupants bring their own padding so the manufacturers make a stiffer suspension to counter the marshmallow effect. In countries with shorter people, the pedals are to close to the driver - Italian.

John
 
Chris,

I hope so too.

After 25,000km driving it, and comparing it with all the other Citroens I have owned, I can vouch that the DS5 is a brilliant car; the "cockpit" is a great place to be.

Regarding ride quality, this article is well worth reading from Car magazine, via Citroenet, where the comment is made that:
"Ride quality, though, is but one element in the sum of comfort". The full article is at: Car Magazine 1971-v-1991 Citroën GSX3-v-Citroën ZX Reflex

I have driven the latest Peugeot 3008, which is a really fine vehicle, and is already having sales success.

I have owned French cars since being a student in the UK in the 70s - Ami6, ID19s, DS23, XM Series 1 and 2, C5X7, C4VTS (current), DS5 (current), Berlingo (current) and I wish them well for the future, and I hope Inchcape brings new life to the marque in Australia - although I don't believe getting rid of their best dealer is the right way to start; quite the opposite.

RobL

Hi Rob,
We're probably of similar vintage with much the same loyalty to the Citroen marque - I can add GS, DS21BVH, CX Prestige, 2 x D Safaris to your list, countless IDs, DS23Ie XM series 1, BX16v, C5 series 1 and probably a few I've forgotten along the way. Our last Citroen now being an X7.

I'm afraid since PSA have held the reigns I am tired of hearing "the best is yet to come. . ." I'm happy with the X7 but apart from 25 years of improved build quality it has nothing on the '85 CX Prestige.

I can't believe what comes across as a strategy to alienate loyal customers, it's as though they know they can't recreate the mood and excitement of the DS19 so are trying to bury it's memory and the cars that followed.

Inchscape are off to a very poor start, but perhaps following PSAs lead :confused:

Cheers
Chris
 
I’m to poor to own a new car so have chosen to invest millions in old cits.

Found on Gumtree whilst perusing DS5s for amusement- think this sums ( typo) dumbs it up-

We are a local Citroen dealer come out for a test drive. NOTE: ALL ENQUIRIES ARE CHARGED AT $49.50 TO THE DEALER SO PLEASE CONSIDER YOUR ENQUIRY AND ANY OFFERS. THIS IS WHY YOU ARE UNABLE TO FIND OUT WHO WE ARE UNTIL YOU ENQUIRE. Cars of Canberra - Fyshwick 38 Collie Street Fyshwick, ACT 2609 17000586
 
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My opinion is that surely Inchcape cannot make a bigger mess of the Citroen dealership than those of the past, so why not just wait and see what transpires?
 
Hi Chris, you are correct. We are of similar vintage and loyalties to the Citroen marque.

I owned three IDs. In the 1960 model I installed a DSpecial engine to replace the worn out three bearing long stroke engine. It transformed the car. My DS23 auto nearly turned me off Citroens forever. This model should never have been lauched on the market, as it was full of faults because of a lack of proper testing and development. It cost many loyal Citroen people lots af money to rectify the numerous problems, including overheating poor quality control, head gasket failure, and failure of the sprag clutch in the torque converter. However, despite the grief, the money and the immense amount of time spent on sorting it out, with the invaluable help of the automotive guys at Canberra TAFE, I got it running OK, and then sold it. All the other Citroens/DSs have been great, the DS5 being really special.

Regarding PSA, they were the top selling manufacturer in France for three first three quarters of 2017, so they are doing OK there. Despite their bad start here in Australia, I hope Inchcape does improve the market penetration of the PSA range. Single brand car dealers are increasingly rare these days. If Citroen, Peugeot and DS vehicles are displayed in the same showrooms as Subarus, for example, that will make people more area of the PSA product.

Let's wait and see.

Cheers,

Rob
 
One thing, they will notice Citroen, Peugeot and DS vehicles do not have AWD. At least, if you also have Subaru, you will be able to satisfy the customer.

John
 
John,

Statistics show that AWD is not really a big factor in SUV choices, unless you really want to go seriously off road. I have been researching all makes of SUV recently, and speaking to dealers and friends, with a view to purchase one, and on many AWD is only an option. Subaru is unique in having AWD across the range. Even the popular BMW X1 is front wheel drive, although you can get AWD at the top of the range at considerable additional expense.

The 2017 Peugeot 3008, the first SUV to be Car of the Year in Europe, looks the best buy so far.

Cheers,

RobL

Rob
 
My opinion is that surely Inchcape cannot make a bigger mess of the Citroen dealership than those of the past, so why not just wait and see what transpires?

I agree with Gerry. I might also point out that Citroen Australia are the major sponsors of the 2018 Cit In (check the site on this forum) which I take to be indicative of their long game.
:cheers:
 
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