Ignition Modules

[Steve K]

Hi Barry,
I am leaning towards an MSD unit at the moment.
A110 with tacho cable drive off the dizzy, A310 With D Jetronic triggers
and a Europa with 12G stuff. Want to keep them unadulterated as possible.
I see a strong spark as being the cure for fouling cold plugs ( Bosch W4CC }
I have no intention of swapping Weber 45 DCOE's for Jenveys as I don't see the
original carbies being any problem. Only issue is after long periods of non - use,
the fuel in the bowls dries up and the mechanical fuel pump has issues self priming.
This is being sorted with a Facet fuel pump (although the Facets I ordered arrived
as unbranded Chinese knock offs! )

Speaking of Jenveys, they make a triple as per 40 IDA 3C's but I have asked them if
a 48 triple is on their development program for my next V6 build....

 

[PeterT]

I am leaning towards an MSD unit at the moment.

Talk to Mark from GT-Pumps before you make the decision. He is the M in M&W. He was also an inventor of the orginal Haltech ecu and worked for an F1 team for some time. He's a really nice approachable guy.

 

[geckoeng]

Hi Barry,
I am leaning towards an MSD unit at the moment.
A110 with tacho cable drive off the dizzy, A310 With D Jetronic triggers
and a Europa with 12G stuff. Want to keep them unadulterated as possible.
I see a strong spark as being the cure for fouling cold plugs ( Bosch W4CC }
I have no intention of swapping Weber 45 DCOE's for Jenveys as I don't see the
original carbies being any problem. Only issue is after long periods of non - use,
the fuel in the bowls dries up and the mechanical fuel pump has issues self priming.
This is being sorted with a Facet fuel pump (although the Facets I ordered arrived
as unbranded Chinese knock offs! )

Speaking of Jenveys, they make a triple as per 40 IDA 3C's but I have asked them if
a 48 triple is on their development program for my next V6 build....

Proper Facet from UK. #40104

 

[bazzamac]

I remember Colin Stark had a problem with his A110 at Philip Island one year. As he worked on his car, he asked me what MSD stood for. Of course, I didn't know and he said it stood for "Make Spark Disappear". I have genuine Facet fuel pump on my A110 plus a spare if needed and has never let me down. Wonder if anyone on here has used Jenveys?

 

[Greenpeace]

I see a strong spark as being the cure for fouling cold plugs ( Bosch W4CC }

I can appreciate your quest to maintain originality, but going by the Bosch part number are you still using ordinary copper plugs?
An equivelant heat range iridium plug only requires 80% of the voltage to jump the same gap that a copper electrode plug requires, also because the spark is firing off a much smaller surface area the fine tip electrode is much more resistant to fouling.
Same with platinum plugs so far as the fine tip electrode's resistance to fouling is concerned.
Just a thought.

 

[Steve K]

Thanks Greenpeace, I will try iridium after I have systematically eliminated the fuelling and firing
aspects. Don't get me wrong these cars are running fine once they are out of hibernation and
being used regularly. Problem having too many cars!!

 

[Greenpeace]

Don't get me wrong these cars are running fine once they are out of hibernation and
being used regularly. Problem having too many cars!!

Yes I know that problem all too well. Modern fuels just don't keep. Even the fuel stabilisers have me wondering. They say 12 months if you add it to a full tank, yet BPs website says unleaded fuel in a full sealed container will keep for 12 months anyway?
I just got the '66 Mustang running again after 3 years sitting idle, and the crap that I cleaned out of the carby and fuel system was unbelievable.
We nearly need to treat seldom driven classics like a methanol race car and drain all the fuel out once you've finished using them for a while.

 

[PeterT]

I am leaning towards an MSD unit at the moment.

My other advice here is one of maintenance. The capacitors don't last forever. I had mine replaced in 2017, or 11 yrs old. CDI's also need to be rubber mounted. Vibration is bad for the solder joints. I doubt MSD is ever going to service it, giving they're US based.

 

[bazzamac]

If petrol has gone off in your fuel tank and you empty it and put in new fuel, what do you do with the old fuel? Adding octane booster is apparently not the ideal solution.

 

[Whippet]

If petrol has gone off in your fuel tank and you empty it and put in new fuel, what do you do with the old fuel? Adding octane booster is apparently not the ideal solution.

Hi.

Put it in an open topped metal bucket and ignite it. It will burn and self consume.

Saves you from tipping it into the drains or creeks.

Cheers.

 

[Greenpeace]

If petrol has gone off in your fuel tank and you empty it and put in new fuel, what do you do with the old fuel? Adding octane booster is apparently not the ideal solution.

They say you can mix a litre in for every 6 litres of fresh fuel and it will be OK. I've used it in my mower without diluting it, but it gets to a point where even the old side valve mower won't run on it.
Apparently fire ants don't like it, (if you live up my way).
It's also supposed to be a good weedkiller, don't have a smoke while you're sprayng the weeds though.
Even diluted with fresh fuel, I don't think I'd run it in anything I really cared about.

 

[Beano]

Hi.

Put it in an open topped metal bucket and ignite it. It will burn and self consume.

Saves you from tipping it into the drains or creeks.

Cheers.

Good luck with that....the devil is in the detail. I still recall as a teenager, my first experience of how fast petrol fumes spread out, and the WHOOMP sound it made as it almost took off my hair.

 

[COL]

If petrol has gone off in your fuel tank and you empty it and put in new fuel, what do you do with the old fuel? Adding octane booster is apparently not the ideal solution.

Hi.

Put it in an open topped metal bucket and ignite it. It will burn and self consume.

Saves you from tipping it into the drains or creeks.

Cheers.

I use old unleaded for washing my dirty car parts, seams to do the job ok.

 

[PeterT]

I use old unleaded for washing my dirty car parts, seams to do the job ok.

I bought a 3L ultrasonic cleaner on ebay last week. I fill it with Kenco, set to 50º for 30mins, and the parts come out like new. Best thing I've ever done.

 

[angru]

MSD 6AL is probably capable of doing what you want.
Can run points and can run standard coil (check resistance, but I think they’re fairly compatible).
I think the issues Bazzamac has mentioned that Colin had with MSD were related to it being the programmable unit where you could dial in an advance curve. The 6AL doesn’t have this “feature” and is more just a dumb ignition amplifier with rev limiter. … can also get it without rev limiter.
Otherwise. Angelo is running fireball hi6 CDI ignition on his r8 with 5 alpine motor, I don’t know a lot about it but it seems to work for him.

 

[angru]

Also. For the 310 with d-jetronic, I fitted a pertronix set to a d-jetronic 17g a while back with an upgraded (flamethrower) coil. Made a noticeable difference to the way the car ran, particularly at cold start and high load conditions. And it looked very standard.

 

[4cvgordini]

I haven't tried the 123 but the Pertronix, Igniter2 & Bosch "Hall effect" systems I fitted to various toys all failed. I hare refaced them with a simple CD system from Gammatronix. The link is:

Security measure

www.ebay.com.au

This can indeed be reversed by leaving the condenser in place (external in my case) & switching some wires.

The Gammatronix units have been fine & my only hassle has been a couple of NOS sets of points break the springs.

As for points-replacement units, the only one that has been satisfactory is the optical trigger unit fitted forty years ago to my Moke.

 

[COL]

I haven't tried the 123 but the Pertronix, Igniter2 & Bosch "Hall effect" systems I fitted to various toys all failed. I hare refaced them with a simple CD system from Gammatronix. The link is:

Security measure

www.ebay.com.au

This can indeed be reversed by leaving the condenser in place (external in my case) & switching some wires.

The Gammatronix units have been fine & my only hassle has been a couple of NOS sets of points break the springs.

As for points-replacement units, the only one that has been satisfactory is the optical trigger unit fitted forty years ago to my Moke.

I have one of these installed in my R17 powered R12, it is a Chinese knock off points replacement module.

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To my surprise it has not failed, been in there for three years.

 

[schlitzaugen]

I haven't tried the 123 but the Pertronix, Igniter2 & Bosch "Hall effect" systems I fitted to various toys all failed. I hare refaced them with a simple CD system from Gammatronix. The link is:

Security measure

www.ebay.com.au

This can indeed be reversed by leaving the condenser in place (external in my case) & switching some wires.

The Gammatronix units have been fine & my only hassle has been a couple of NOS sets of points break the springs.

As for points-replacement units, the only one that has been satisfactory is the optical trigger unit fitted forty years ago to my Moke.

You may have been very unlucky. I have used Pertronix ignitor systems (Hall effect) with absolutely no problem for decades in Renaults and BMWs. There is very little that can fail, since the sensor is literally a Hall effect sensor and a magnet. You could make one at home easily for a few bucks.

The Pertronix however does not satisfy the first condition imposed by Steve, because you have to remove the points and condenser (which I did gladly because both are weak spots of the points ignition system).

 

[4cvgordini]

I have been told that they can fail from heat stress.