ID19 gearboxes

[jaahn]

well I've got a good running one of these that I'm tripping over in the shed .... I wonder if that'll bolt up to the ID19 gearbox
seeya, Shane l.

Sure Shane
The length is perfect. For any other problems refer to Demannu and his Project Grover, for ideas
Jaahn

 

[DoubleChevron]

Sure Shane
The length is perfect. For any other problems refer to Demannu and his Project Grover, for ideas
Jaahn

The only real reason thousands of people around the world haven't already done this ...... is the DS motor spins backwards! I'm sure I could readily get a bell housing adaptor made, ... and you could probably position it to fit. But first you need to rebuilt the motor to run backwards. which would mean things like camshafts that do not exist, oil pumps that doesn't exist etc...

 

[Trading Estate]

imagine it! It would be a genuine sleeper, if the weight didn't flatten the front end!

 

[ARCHRIVAL]

The Rover Buick motor is half the weight of a ds-id motor do not change the motor change the gearbox check the rotation of the output of a 4x4 transfer case !

 

[DoubleChevron]

imagine it! It would be a genuine sleeper, if the weight didn't flatten the front end!

rover v8 dry weight 170kg .... citroen ... so probably almost the same as the cast iron block id19 motor Its a pipe dream unless you can economically get the parts made to run the motor backwards!

 

[DoubleChevron]

The Rover Buick motor is half the weight of a ds-id motor do not change the motor change the gearbox check the rotation of the output of a 4x4 transfer case !

Or .. find a maserati merak gearbox! The transfer case is a big heavy duty gearbox with two output shafts. You would need ot use the citroen 'box as it incorporate the inboard brake mounts. If you had the maserati gearbox (mirror image of the SM's apparently). it might not be a hugely difficult job.

 

[ARCHRIVAL]

As discussed ad infinitum not that simple merak box is same whole assembly just turned around 180 degrees so a geared gizmo reversing output between motor and box would be the way to go bit like a set of planetary gears

 

[Budge]

You might not think so, but that is the tool I used to undo those bolts to separate the gearbox in the blog

No. They are not that big ....

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No. They are not that big, but you get the idea. Two flat sides.

 

[jaahn]

The only real reason thousands of people around the world haven't already done this ...... is the DS motor spins backwards! I'm sure I could readily get a bell housing adaptor made, ... and you could probably position it to fit. But first you need to rebuilt the motor to run backwards. which would mean things like camshafts that do not exist, oil pumps that doesn't exist etc...

Hmm Shane :nownow:
I think you are just not being creative. Think outside the (gear)box. Any cam grinder would give you a cam to suit. They just weld up the lobes and grind them to suit. OR you can change from a chain drive to gear drive to reverse the direction of the cam relative to the crank. OK first problem solved :joker:
The oil pump is so simple it seems easy. Just weld up a few ports and drill new ones on the other side. Not sure what it looks like but a matter of an hours work I am sure for you. Next problem ??? Ditch those gigantic front pulleys and make something to drive the ancilliaries from ???????????? ahh the end of the cam . Purrfect ! See no problem if you think laterally and also do not forget the excellent fuel consumption those motors give.
Jaahn
PS on the other hand just weld up the fractured crank journal and have it ground. The Yanks do that all the time to their motors for racing seems to work OK. Stroke it a bit while you are doing it.

 

[DoubleChevron]

You might not think so, but that is the tool I used to undo those bolts to separate the gearbox in the blog

This is the tool I have .... Best bet is to just throw those bolts away!

the broken crank looked a lot more impressive when I rolled it over 180degrees.

 

[jaahn]

Hi Shane
That's a serious crack.
Jaahn

 

[citroenthusiast]

Thanks Roger, I have one last hting I can try. I have the rusty old black ID19 under a tree here. It'll probably break in half when I try and drag it out, but it still has a motor in it. seeya,Shane L.

Just remember if you are mixing cranks and blocks, there are at least four possible combinations for crankshafts and blocks. Each takes a different combination of thrust washers and seats. Manual 465 Op. DS100-3 (page 61) outlines the differences.

 

[DoubleChevron]

Just remember if you are mixing cranks and blocks, there are at least four possible combinations for crankshafts and blocks. Each takes a different combination of thrust washers and seats. Manual 465 Op. DS100-3 (page 61) outlines the differences.

Thanks Guys,

this now has to wait until I pull the motor from a wreck.... Who wants to run a book on this. will it take:

a) hours
b) days
c) weeks
d) months
e) years
f) decades

For me to get around to this. I've spent a good day searching for and sorting fasteners to ease re-assembly of the car (it was missing quite a few). There is an odd mixture of crap everywhere to patch it together. Everything seems to work out this way for me. I was thinking this would be a solid days work to fix ..... Now its become one of those huge "oneday" jobs that I will need to find time for.

seeya,
Shane L.

 

[JohnW]

This is the tool I have .... Best bet is to just throw those bolts away!

the broken crank looked a lot more impressive when I rolled it over 180degrees.

Wow!!!!!!

 

[baldrick56]

The only real reason thousands of people around the world haven't already done this ...... is the DS motor spins backwards! I'm sure I could readily get a bell housing adaptor made, ... and you could probably position it to fit. But first you need to rebuilt the motor to run backwards. which would mean things like camshafts that do not exist, oil pumps that doesn't exist etc...

A little bit before the ID19 the Traction gearbox was used in backwards sense in the TA & other way around in the Type H van - how was this done?


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[gerrypro]

This is the tool I have .... Best bet is to just throw those bolts away!

the broken crank looked a lot more impressive when I rolled it over 180degrees.

Congratulations! You are the first person I have ever met who has managed to break one of those cranks. What an achievement. How did you do it?

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This is the tool I have .... Best bet is to just throw those bolts away!

the broken crank looked a lot more impressive when I rolled it over 180degrees.

Congratulations! You are the first person I have ever met who has managed to break one of those cranks. What an achievement. How did you do it?

 

[citroenthusiast]

A little bit before the ID19 the Traction gearbox was used in backwards sense in the TA & other way around in the Type H van - how was this done?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Not sure about the H-Van, but the Maserati Merak did it simply by swapping the ring gear to the other side of the pinion. It did require a new casting to accommodate the re-positioned ring gear, but everything else inside the transaxle is the same and the pinion is driving the drive side of the ring gear. Chapman (Lotus) did the opposite. Since his engine spun the opposite way from the SM/Merak engine but was in front of the transmission (like the Merak). He used the SM transmission essentially as-is but ran the tranmission backwards, including the pinion driving on the coast side of the ring gear.

 

[JohnW]

Not sure about the H-Van, but the Maserati Merak did it simply by swapping the ring gear to the other side of the pinion. It did require a new casting to accommodate the re-positioned ring gear, but everything else inside the transaxle is the same and the pinion is driving the drive side of the ring gear. Chapman (Lotus) did the opposite. Since his engine spun the opposite way from the SM/Merak engine but was in front of the transmission (like the Merak). He used the SM transmission essentially as-is but ran the tranmission backwards, including the pinion driving on the coast side of the ring gear.

Thanks for that - I had NO idea anyone had run a crownwheel and pinion backwards! Apparently it worked all right? "Interesting" character, Colin Chapman...

I'm looking forward to Shane's answer to Gerry's question too.

 

[gerrypro]

Colin Chapman first did that with the Traction 11 gearbox running a four speed Ersa conversion in the Cooper racing cars of the late forties and fifties. Ultimately he mated it to the Cooper Climax engine and produced a world beater!​

 

[JohnW]

Colin Chapman first did that with the Traction 11 gearbox running a four speed Ersa conversion in the Cooper racing cars of the late forties and fifties. Ultimately he mated it to the Cooper Climax engine and produced a world beater!​

Bloke by the name of Brabham got involved a bit too! They ran them with the CWP in reverse did they? That original Chapman work on Coopers must have been pretty early I guess? Fascinating stuff. I was looking at a Traction gearbox after overhaul a few months ago - some interesting design features...