Its crank float. I can pull the flywheel in/out to show the same movement. Hopefully I'll drop the sump off this afternoon and see what is going on
ID19 gearboxes
- Thread starter DoubleChevron
- Start date
Its crank float. I can pull the flywheel in/out to show the same movement. Hopefully I'll drop the sump off this afternoon and see what is going on
I know what you mean. it doesn't feel right that just four bolts can hold the block on a stand but they can. Use tight fitting washers on the bolts so there is no chance of them pulling through. In some spots you will need to screw bolts into threads on the block, in others you may just go through a hole so need bolt and nut. If you want more strength/ more bolts, fashion some spacers then bolt to those. Here's a couple of photos i salted away. I'm sure at least one of them came from another Aussiefrogger.
I've never needed to put a DS motor .... well any motor onto an engine stand before. Is the block really strong enough to support the weight from four piddly little bolts through the bell housing area
seeya,
Shane L.
excellent. That is brilliant! I'll find a couple of bits of metal like you have. They are such small bolts ... that would need to be very long that I don't like the way it would hang normally! Thanks for the pictures. A simple picture sure it better than 100 words
Please don't put it back together without giving the brake calipers and the park brake mechanism a overhaul!
This topic has been raised before and I put some other reference photos on my blog.
If/ when I can remember where I sourced the photos from, i'd happily credit them to their owners/ sources
When i rebuilt my later five bearing engine I used intermediary vertical bars to give me extra bolt points to the engine block - but I learned the hard way that you need to plan how to set everything up so that you don't block access for the camshaft and the fitting of oliway drain plug. The other learning point was that i 'balanced' the block so that i could easily rotate it, but one you start to add the crank and head, the centre of balance shifts dramatically!
If/ when I can remember where I sourced the photos from, i'd happily credit them to their owners/ sources
When i rebuilt my later five bearing engine I used intermediary vertical bars to give me extra bolt points to the engine block - but I learned the hard way that you need to plan how to set everything up so that you don't block access for the camshaft and the fitting of oliway drain plug. The other learning point was that i 'balanced' the block so that i could easily rotate it, but one you start to add the crank and head, the centre of balance shifts dramatically!
excellent. That is brilliant! I'll find a couple of bits of metal like you have. They are such small bolts ... that would need to be very long that I don't like the way it would hang normally! Thanks for the pictures. A simple picture sure it better than 100 words
Well.. damn, I wish I hadn't given away the original motor out of the ugly ID19 .... that whole car appears to be very low milage compared to any other ID I've ever seen..... Never did I dream I'd ever need to repair the motor in any of the cars here ( one good and one rebuilt ). I've never had a Citroen motor fail on me before .... I've been driving them since I was 16years old and never had a motor fail.
I've been watching "uncle tonys garage" videos over the last couple of months. The cars don't interest me, but his content is just fascinating. I saw this one a week or so back. He checks his crankshafts by sitting them on the floor and tapping them with something. They should "ring" like a crystal glass. The one in the engine here sounds like a lump of hard wood being tapped. I'm guessing its been ground to far undersize
Thiis motor would be lucky to have 15,000miles on a rebuild ( a loooooonnnngggg time ago ). fortunatly there doesn't appear to be any metal in the sump or oil pump gauze. so I'll probably just need a crank and some new bearings.
I've been watching "uncle tonys garage" videos over the last couple of months. The cars don't interest me, but his content is just fascinating. I saw this one a week or so back. He checks his crankshafts by sitting them on the floor and tapping them with something. They should "ring" like a crystal glass. The one in the engine here sounds like a lump of hard wood being tapped. I'm guessing its been ground to far undersize
Thiis motor would be lucky to have 15,000miles on a rebuild ( a loooooonnnngggg time ago
). fortunatly there doesn't appear to be any metal in the sump or oil pump gauze. so I'll probably just need a crank and some new bearings.
It appears that the counterweight and big end are moving axially, but the adjacent crank throw is not moving. That suggests the crankshaft is broken underneath the big end that you can see (or immediately adjacent to it, where the big end journal goes into the crank throw.) It will be interesting to see underneath that big end cap....
Gees Shane
You have some expertise in 'testing' things out !!!! Bad luck really. But the good news is you will be learning, learning, learning ! Poorer but better informed
Years ago I pulled out a grey Holden motor because it had a bad knock. Turned out the crank was broken, at an angle, through the front main journal, just needed to drive the timing gear to keep going. Looks a bit like that on yours.
Giving a crankshaft(or anything) a hit was a common test for cracks. Nothing to do with undersize journels !
I hope it gets better from here.
Jaahn
Hey this thread was about the gearbox ?
You have some expertise in 'testing' things out !!!! Bad luck really. But the good news is you will be learning, learning, learning ! Poorer but better informed
Years ago I pulled out a grey Holden motor because it had a bad knock. Turned out the crank was broken, at an angle, through the front main journal, just needed to drive the timing gear to keep going. Looks a bit like that on yours.
Giving a crankshaft(or anything) a hit was a common test for cracks. Nothing to do with undersize journels !
I hope it gets better from here.
Jaahn
Hey this thread was about the gearbox ?
Gees Shane
I hope it gets better from here.
Jaahn
Hey this thread was about the gearbox ?
Yes, this thread was about removing a gearbox. as the motor developed a knock that went away when the clutch was pushed...... I figured the flywheel bolts didn't have thread locker on them .... and the flywheel was about to fall out of the car. er, I guessed wrong!
the crank is broken just beside the journal (exactly where tony says they will crack/break in that video).
seeya
Shane L.
There is a reason for the large fillet radius at the transition from the journal to the crank throw. If the crank was ground with too small a radius (sharp transition) you can get a stress concentration there, which will lead to fatigue failure.
Shane, I think I have a couple of spare engines if you need one.
Roger
Roger
Thanks Roger, I have one last hting I can try. I have the rusty old black ID19 under a tree here. It'll probably break in half when I try and drag it out, but it still has a motor in it. Apparently is was overheated, that is why the car was parked up (decades ago). Overheated doesn't mean the crank will be toast though. Now I'll just pencil in extracting that motor for June .... 2047
seeya,
Shane L.
I broke a crank adjacent to a journal once, in a bug eye sprite. I must admit when I saw your first video I thought of that dreaded hollow knock!
I sure didn't turn up the radio and ignore it (actually .... I thought "Oh dear, that doesn't sound good" and shut it off instantly ... and coasted to a halt luckily managing to coast into a side street). Of course, this was when the shitbox was in bits ... so I had to borrow my fathers car .... get a lift home .... find/empty/fix the trailer .... collect car etc.... I love making my life easy
...Think how simple life would be if we just all bought an new hi-undie i30 every 5years!
seeya,
Shane L.
This perhaps the picture you need. I'm sure there are other brands of this GM tool. The socket is not meant for these special Citroen bolts but is a pretty good match. It just needs a gentle tap to secure it and that should give you enough purchase.
No. They are not that big ....
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No. They are not that big, but you get the idea. Two flat sides.
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No. They are not that big, but you get the idea. Two flat sides.