Help - I just bought an R25!

Europa,

I have gotten the dash out, but the only printed circuit board that I can reasonably access is the one on the far right hand side which connects to the fuel-gauge scrolling buttons.

Any others I should be trying to access?

Thanks,
Skip.
 
Im glad your pulling the dash out of the 25 i would hate to do it to my 19 dreading the day..
 
Howdy Skippy,

I don't recommend LRP - most users of this find that it ends up coking up the combustion chambers and plugs to the extent that the car won't run properly.

Stuey
 
Stuey:
Howdy Skippy,

I don't recommend LRP - most users of this find that it ends up coking up the combustion chambers and plugs to the extent that the car won't run properly.

Stuey
Click to expand...
This is strange, and must be a regionalised problem, because I've never had problems with LRP.
 
Skippy:

I have gotten the dash out, but the only printed circuit board that I can reasonably access is the one on the far right hand side which connects to the fuel-gauge scrolling buttons.

Any others I should be trying to access?
Click to expand...
Keep going, layer upon layer of equipment to dissassemble :)

You should find that the fuel gauge/trip computer is a single unit attached by a short cable to the main instrument PCB. Check all joints at this location (and around the cluster PCB as well) - look for "dry" solder joints and carefully resolder (just heat and reapply solder if neccessary)

On my fuel gauge, nearly all the joints were open circuit.

I think you will have to carefully pull the instrument cluster out of the dash assembly and remove some covers etc.

Clean hands, clean desk with good lighting, take your time etc. :)

Or alternatively, take the whole thing to a decent electronic technician - you've done most of the hard work already (getting the dash out) - so they may be able to assist you...

<small>[ 07 May 2002, 09:57 AM: Message edited by: Europa ]</small>
 
Behold, the Holy Grail - A functioning R25 Instrument Panel!!!

Thank you, Europa, for all the advice.

My genuis of a mechanic also gave me some pointers on fixing these buggers, and they worked! If anyone is interested, give this a go...

First of all, do not be scared of taking the instrument panel out. There are a lot of connectors to deal with, but they are all differen sizes so you can't mix them up (which helps rookies like me!). Get a Haynes manual ($39.30 from Repco) and follow the instructions. No need to take the steering wheel off, either.

Next, as Europa pointed out, get the instrument panel somewhere well lit and clean. The next steps require a little patience, and a steady hand.

Remove the black facia covering the printed circuit ribbon running from the back of the speedo to the rear of the fuel guage display. You should now see exposed the two insertion points where the ribbon feeds into the connectors.

Gently remove the ribbon, following the instructions in the Haynes manual. Be sure you know which way they go back in. Now, you need some nice, small pieces of flat plastic to finish the job. The lid of a No Frills ice cream container works well, but other brands have thicker lids. You may have to experiment with a few different tubs (yum!).

You will need two squares which will be used to tighten up the connections and hold them in place. They only need to be about 5mm deep to insert, but cut them to about 1.5 cm so you can grip them, etc.

Take the ribbon, and make a new bend a few mm up from where it has previously been bent. This will eliminate any problems if the copper strips are broken. Now, use the plastic strip to re-insert the ribbon into the connector, and leave it inserted along with the ribbon. This is why the plastic must be thin, as you don't want to stretch the connector; just tighten it.

Check all the bulbs, and replace as necessary. I bought three for five dollars from my auto electrician so you can definitely get them.

Re-insert dash (make sure battery is disconnected), connect it all up etc, etc. Start car - VOILA! A working R25 instrument panel. Who would have believed it could be so easy?

Generally, I don't think it will be necessary to have to dismantle the actual instruments. These ribbon connectors really do appear to be the weak link. But each case I'm sure is different...

Now, believe me when I tell you that I am a complete amateur when it comes to this stuff, so if I can do it, anyone can. Give it a go and let me know how it works out.

<Skippy's doin' the happy dance!> approve

<small>[ 07 May 2002, 05:55 PM: Message edited by: Skippy ]</small>
 
Happy I could assist, and thanks for the thanks...

Mine needed a little more work than yours, had to strip it even further to get all the bugs ironed out of the system...

Don't even get me started on the radio/clock/temp display....

Oh yeh, also I found that 5W globes (existing globes were 3W) in a couple of units made the LCD's much more readable in bright sunlight...
 
Funny you should mention the temperature display, Europa. Ever noticed how attempting to fix things like these instrument panels brings Newton's Third Law of Motion into play?

For every action, there must be an equal, and opposite, reaction.

In my case, I got the fuel gauge and speedo working, but then the temperature gauge showed -30 degrees - on the Gold Coast!!!!

Well, so far I loosened the unit and toggled the connector and that fixed it for now. The first bump I go over will probably ruin it again. But hey, when you have a working fuel gauge, the R25 is so cool it may indeed be -30!!

<small>[ 09 May 2002, 09:36 AM: Message edited by: Skippy ]</small>
 
Skippy,
I am looking to read your results in getting the fuel guage etc working again and how you found the "removing the dashboard" experience. Luke has encouraged me to do the same 'cos my fuel guage light is out. I'm too busy enjoying the car to try doing it! My purchase experience was much like yours, but I haven't regretted owning my 2.2 5-speeder for a moment. My aircon is not working either - fans and all go, but no cold air. Did you visit an aircon shop to suss it out?

Cheers = Paul
PS to Luke..... looking forward to the R25 site!
 
I have also taken the plunge and bought an R25 (an auto - gulp!). A couple of questions for the the R25 experienced.
Can I use a conventional spring compressor for changing the front shocks (I couldnt for my Fuego)
Who out there has ditched the factory stereo for a good one (ie CD player), and has anyone found one that will work with the radio station display on the dash and the remote control. I get the feeling I will have to lose these.
Mine is an 1989 model (unleaded), and is unresponsive to throttle.It takes a few seconds for revs to build up when throttle is blipped.
but apart from that I'm looking forward to driving it when I've tweaking a few things. It had the classic oil leak from the head gasket, so I got the head reco'd while it was off. It has been serviced by a local mechanic in a little country town, and I keep finding stuff to shake my head at. Its not hard to put a little care into ones work. At least they convinced the previous owner to sell it (cheap) and buy a crappy Australian car because "Renaults are too hard to get parts for and they are really exspensive". I love ignorance sometimes.
 
Shocks - dunno, sorry

Radio - Haven't been able to find a solution to the display - although clock & temp will still function.

Remote control is connected via 5 pin DIN, and there are/were adaptors available for Alpine units I believe.

The other alternative is to look at Blaupunkt - similar remote control on Laguna V6, I reckon chances are it could be interfaced to the R25. The Blaupunkt as fitted to the Laguna V6 (Phase 1) seems a nice unit, boot mounted changer, cassette & radio in head unit, standard DIN

The other thing to consider is that the stereo is automatically cut out when the voice wants to speak - this is not done by cutting the power (although that could be a way around it via a relay etc) I notice in the Laguna V6, the Blaupunkt display shows "Speech" when the voice is activated. Probably another reason to consider checking one out!
 
When i compressed my front springs on my Fuego, my dad had to drill 2 holes using special high-speed drill bits through my strut towers(!) to let the threads of a custom spring compressor through to acces the springs. Its bloody well beleivable, i can assure everyone. Conventional spring compressors are useless on Fuego's. It wasnt fun. NO BLOODY ROOM!
 
Well, getting the dash out really isn't a big deal. I didn't even take the steering wheel off, although, to be fair, if you take it off it would make the job a whole lot easier and quicker (just a question of more room to move).

As for the shocks, I believe that they need the special compression tool. From reading these boards, you may have to look long and hard to find someone brave enough to tackle the job. Apparently they are so compressed they cause a lot of damage if not removed correctly (and safely!)

I would be interested, however, if anyone has actually managed to lower the front end on a 25 and how easy/expensive etc it was to do. I think the car would look a little better without the Landcruiser-type clearance on the front wheels...

As for the radio, all I can say is don't you dare remove that wonderful Philips unit and replace it! Who cares how much thumpity-thump you can get out of a new one? That thing is a piece of 80's classic styling and should be left untouched! Gotta love that little graphic equaliser - so cool!

Long run the 25! dance
 
I'm afraid I have to replace the stereo as the original is stuffed. Also I NEED my music in the car (lots of long country drives) and I like it to sound good (not just loud - cant stand that Doof doof stuff) I do agree though that the original is very classic 80's! Wouldnt be so bad if I used a Renault replacement.
Was also wondering if anyone has a spare grill badge? Mine was apparently nicked! Kids must be very bored in the country! Also, I need a new knock sensor for the injection system (knocked inlet manifold against it during head reoval and the brittle plastic case shattered.
 
Hey skippy, what was that simple fix for the hestitaion problem you mentioned?
 
re radio -- '80's classic it may be and for me it has been good til now - but mine is stuck on the highest volume which is incredibly loud
Anyone had this experience and how to fix.
Please don't say turn it off!
thanks chris
 
Hey Chris, I wonder if one of the three separate volume switches has got a dodgy contact which just needs loosening? Can you hold the reduce-volume down to get it to go softer? If so, when you let go, I assume it reverts to full blast. That might be indicative...

Skippy.
 
Haakon,

Apologies for the delay, I have been rather busy with a mid-term and other assignments recently. Anyway, here is the fix for the hesitation problem. It may stretch across more than one post.

First and foremost, I must acknowledge that this is not my fix. I was very kindly given the solution to the problem by forum member 'Regie' (aka Steve) to whom I am very grateful. Regie has given me permission to post the information here so that other R25 owners can benefit from his expertise.

Also, the people at Colliers Automotive in Sydney are to be thanked for their work in diagnosing the source of the problem.

As this problem has shown identical symptoms on two different vehicles, it may be right to assume that this is a common problem. However, you should satisfy yourself first before performing the changes that you are suffering from the same complaint.

OK, with all that out of the way, let's get started...

SYMPTOMS

The car will jump a lot under light acceleration (<2,500 rpm) and this tends to be more evident when the car is cold. On the manual R25, it literally 'kangaroo hops' down the road like a learner driver is behind the wheel! This is alleviated for driving purposes by putting your foot down on the accelerator, which seems to overcome the lack of fuel getting to the engine.

Similarly, when cruising and the revs drop below about 3,000 rpm, the jumpiness becomes evident again. Also, when trying to increase acceleration in these circumstances, the car hesitates considerably before kicking on again and moving upwards in the rev range.

If in neutral, just slowly moving the revs between 1-3,000 tends to show hesitation and roughness.

Note that above 3,000 rpm the problem seems to disappear completely.

If this sounds like you, read on...

DIAGNOSIS

The very clever people at Colliers found that by programming a cold temperature simulation to the ECU when the car was at running temperature, the car would then rev freely throughout the range. Step one accomplished - problem identified! Simply a case of too little fuel being delivered to the cylinders, thanks to pre-programming the cars to run lean for pollution purposes back in the 80's.

Note that it is not a dodgy temperature sensor which is to blame. The sensors work correctly, according to their resistance which was suitable when new. There is no need to replace the sensor, and doing so is unlikely to have any effect on the problem.

The next post will deal with the actual fix.
 
Post 2 of the R25 Hesitation Fix

FIXING THE PROBLEM

Now the permanent fix. Put a resistor into the line that goes from the engine temperature sensor to the computer. The temperature sensor is located below the top radiator hose connection on the motor. It is the one with an electrical plug similar to the fuel injectors.The wires from it run across the front of the engine and you can split the outer covering any where its convenient.

Split one of the lines (doesn't matter which one) and connect a 24mm, 0 to 2000 ohm wire wound, 3 watt rotary resistor (Catalogue Number: R6917, $6.95 from Dick Smiths) in series with the sensor.

Start the car, and then after it is hot, adjust the resistor until the hesitation/rough running goes away. Mine is about three-quarters of the way around (1500 ohms) but I have not got a reading. It is very simple to adjust until the car runs just right.

This is a very simple and effective fix for little cost (less than ten bucks!)

You can mount the resistor inside the car, or find a suitable place inside the engine bay where temperatures tend to stay relatively stable. Do not leave it fitted in the general area of the sensor as the radiator hoses will make the resistor very hot and affect its performance.

Personally, I have mine mounted on the battery tray. Sounds like an odd place, however, there is a hole which is made-to-measure to fit the resistor, and I had an easy time running some very cheap (less than $2) light-gauge twin core wiring using the existing conduits in the area (follow the temperature sender line, from memory).


Putting the resistor in the line will not cause any damage to the ECU. It is only simulating a cooler engine than it really is. The ECU schedules more fuel as it thinks the engine is cool. Try it for your problem if it sounds similar and it can't hurt anything if it fails.

I will now attempt a further post, where I will try to paste a wiring diagram showing in very simple fashion how to connect the resistor. If this doesn't work, email me and I will send it to you that way instead.

AND FINALLY

I have attempted to keep this simple and accurate. I am no whiz when it comes to cars, so if I can do this little job, believe me, anyone can. Although the fix was supplied to me by Regie, any errors in the explanation are mine, not his.

Long run the 25. dance

Skippy.
 
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