Fuel Price

Hah not much go in an election year when pollies are in backward modes. With all the Emergency power declarations still in place. I guess a popular move that could insulate us consumers against paying rip-off or inflationary prices would be to have a "lockdown" on pricing increases. Simply as I have often speculated to bring back emergency price control and make all domestic and overseas sourced products have to apply to a Prices Justification tribunal to be granted a price increase of any product (or declared product) over the period of Economic Emergency. Wow Power ego and chutzpah all rolled into a spin bundle.!

This could be politically a real winner, judging from the enthusiasm some seemed to have for the pandemic political lockdowns. Would slow down profiteering and all those State Leaders could have border checks and controls to stop black markets profiteering developing.
 
Kenfuego said:
Hah not much go in an election year when pollies are in backward modes. With all the Emergency power declarations still in place. I guess a popular move that could insulate us consumers against paying rip-off or inflationary prices would be to have a "lockdown" on pricing increases. Simply as I have often speculated to bring back emergency price control and make all domestic and overseas sourced products have to apply to a Prices Justification tribunal to be granted a price increase of any product (or declared product) over the period of Economic Emergency. Wow Power ego and chutzpah all rolled into a spin bundle.!

This could be politically a real winner, judging from the enthusiasm some seemed to have for the pandemic political lockdowns. Would slow down profiteering and all those State Leaders could have border checks and controls to stop black markets profiteering developing.
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Even better, Australia could unlock it's own oil reserves, process them (in the few working refineries that we have left) and almost totally free ourselves from the overseas owned cartels that continually push our domestic prices upwards.
 
Two refineries left in Australia Kim, Ampol Lytton in Qld, Viva (ex Shell) Geelong, both operate under five year government subsidy. Imports of refined product now 70% from Singapore, Sth Korea, Japan, China. Government is acting to make sure stocks for 90 days are held in Australia, now about 21 days fuel on hand. For decades after the war Australia stored large quantities of crude oil in case of "unpleasantness" but not any more. Large stocks of refined product can't be kept because it goes off. So Australia has established a strategic reserve of crude oil like many other countries but it's in America not Australia. Nothing more than us paying for part of the American strategic reserve. In past times we had planners who looked at the worst case possibilities like an Asian war that would make shipments difficult if not impossible or that having a strategic reserve of oil the other side of a large ocean might not work in a time of conflict but such gloomy folk have been replaced by cheerful optimists .
 
We don't have oil that lends itself to making petrol. It's the one resource we don't have. Our oil is too heavy and too rich in Sulphur. Good for grease and stuff like that not petrol.

But we could do like the Brazilians and switch to ethanol made from whatever (they make it out of sugar cane, I think we have some of that and the potential to grow more). And we have plenty of nuclear fuel to make clean electricity out of and run electric cars. Plus sunlight.
 
Problem with making ethanol from grain is that it's such an inefficient process - far more efficient to make diesel from oil seed crops.
I have a couple of diesel-engined vehicles, so canola oil etc. would keep me mobile!

Now what about methane (collected from rubbish tips) - how could that be used to fuel vehicles?
 
schlitzaugen said:
We don't have oil that lends itself to making petrol. It's the one resource we don't have. Our oil is too heavy and too rich in Sulphur. Good for grease and stuff like that not petrol.

But we could do like the Brazilians and switch to ethanol made from whatever (they make it out of sugar cane, I think we have some of that and the potential to grow more). And we have plenty of nuclear fuel to make clean electricity out of and run electric cars. Plus sunlight.
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I think you will find that the exact opposite exists. Australian oil is unsuitable for many types of lubricating oils, but petrol and diesel is something that really can be made from it........Not that any of the overseas owned companies will have a bar of it.......
 
Just another side issue peripheral to warfare and cyber security is the ability to knock out alternative energy sources like windfarms that need certain interconnectivity to monitor and fine tune the grid input. Most of the electronics in this area originates from China, and one might speculate be at risk due to cyber-warfare tactics. So there is a real need to plan for redundancy systems i.e. coal or gas backup if disruption and conflict ensures. Example is the recent interference that sent many of Europes wind farms offline due to the Russia invasion of Ukrainian sovereign territory and the cyber attack capability. more at this link.

Taste of things to come?

Ken
 
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Ken, redundancy in systems is something that is out of fashion. Brigadier Eason designed a volunteer run fire and community communications system for Victoria that could still operate if parts went down, power failed and the phone system went out, now replaced with an overworked centralized system where loss of one cable blacks the lot.
Bio fuels will be under pressure from the worldwide grain shortage developing that threatens famine to parts of the world. World grain supply is always tight, China has its worst wheat harvest in forty years, the Great Plains are dry and now a third of the worlds wheat exports are no longer available. Good times for Australian grain growers but yields will be affected by fertiliser shortages and massive price increases now we're no longer allowed to access half the worlds fertiliser production. Good profits for North American fert companies though.
 
The simplest form of redundancy illustration is the Diesel Generators that at present back up all sorts of things. No matter where we go in shifting energy to whatever, even Nuclear, there will still be a need for back up systems even clunky manually started systems, regional or locally controlled, as just plain good contingent planning. Did a lot of that planning in another lifetime in my working capacity. Hopefully there will be similar planning "just in case" now and in the future. Otherwise its back to bicycles......in the short term :D

Ken
 
Kim Luck said:
I think you will find that the exact opposite exists. Australian oil is unsuitable for many types of lubricating oils, but petrol and diesel is something that really can be made from it........Not that any of the overseas owned companies will have a bar of it.......
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My wife has been working in the oil industry here for over 25 years. No, our oil is not good for petrol. If it were, we would have done it, exactly because the oil companies don't want to lose any profits.
 
Much of Australia’s crude oil production is of a quality (light sweet) which is very commercially attractive for processing in other countries. But not in Australia. So, we piss it off overseas and import every last drop of our oil requirements. We have less than a months' supply in reserve in Australia and another months' worth in Texas, an example of masterful thinking by successive governments. When the excreta really contacts the fan, you won't want to be buying fuel here in Australia.
 
The world is awash with oil and gas and will be for a long time to come. Problems with supply are only political and energy crises are self inflicted. It won't get any better and as usual Australia will be the loser in the game.
 
The refinery operators are headed for the door and are only here operating old facilities because the government is paying them. The oil companies don't give a damn about Australian energy security and left on their own will leave us totally dependent upon refined product from Asia transported through easily interdicted sea routes. What a shame Bob Menzies flogged off the Commonwealth Oil Refinery to BP.
 
if you have a day job ,you are going to have your car on charge overnight ,which means unless you have battery ,solar panels aren't going to do you much good ,i can see a time when companies will install solar ,for there workers to charge there cars while they are at work ,some government incentive would be appropriate ,rising fuel prices may be an incentive for us to try and meet our emission goals ,i heard a lady on the radio a couple days ago say it cost her $200 to fill her car 100 litres at $2 i spose PS there's nothing like the hip pocket nerve ,for motivation .PUGS
 
What happened to the push for LPG? Weren't there public buses being converted? That would be the easiest alternative fuel given a lot of service stations still sell it. There used to be quite few gas only Falcons in government fleets.
 
Russell Hall said:
What happened to the push for LPG? Weren't there public buses being converted? That would be the easiest alternative fuel given a lot of service stations still sell it. There used to be quite few gas only Falcons in government fleets.
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I agree. I think the public buses were converted to CNG in states other than Vic but after a few fires they are back on diesel
 
julian c b said:
I agree. I think the public buses were converted to CNG in states other than Vic but after a few fires they are back on diesel
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Brisbane Transport is still running over three hundred CNG buses. They apparently have no intention of removing them from service until they are life expired (about 20 years from new).
 
COL said:
How does the RS265 perform on E85 Alan? is it more powerful and also what is the economy like?
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The Megane was modified only 6 weeks before I bought it. Aftermarket dump pipe, resonator delete, Wagner intercooler, bigger injectors and fuel pump and a map change to suit. The turbo itself is standard. It has 295 hp at the wheels and gets about 12L /100klm on the commute from Ipswich to Brisbane. I have done about 30 000klm on E85 in the two years since I bought it. The car has 58k on it now. No flex fuel option on a reflashed ECU.

At the track the fuel economy is atrocious at about 1.5L per 2.4klm lap at Lakeside and has run a 62.5 second lap on a 35 degree day which didn’t suit the tyres or help the engine power. With less to live for I could possibly drop another .75 sec but it wouldn’t be comfortable.

Anyway, back to fuel prices and what alternatives we have available.
 
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pugwash said:
if you have a day job ,you are going to have your car on charge overnight ,which means unless you have battery ,solar panels aren't going to do you much good ,i can see a time when companies will install solar ,for there workers to charge there cars while they are at work ,some government incentive would be appropriate ,rising fuel prices may be an incentive for us to try and meet our emission goals ,i heard a lady on the radio a couple days ago say it cost her $200 to fill her car 100 litres at $2 i spose PS there's nothing like the hip pocket nerve ,for motivation .PUGS
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Most systems come with battery too these days after people realised that solar by itself is kinda like a three legged horse. I guess you could be totally self reliant with a decent investment but I am not sure how many people would take that on given the way real estate is "used" here.

A serious hit in the hip pocket as you say might change things.

Either way, I would love to see a hybrid car you can plug into your house and use its batteries for domestic needs or charge it if need be. Dual purpose battery.
 
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