Fitting air horns to a D Special

[daffyduck]

Here comes the kid in a candy store part.

We have an oohga horn on an old Cadillac that we take on the motoring tour. Those horns have a life span with me playing with it all the time. I suspect the UFO install might suffer the same fate.

 

[UFO]

Here comes the kid in a candy store part.

We have an oohga horn on an old Cadillac that we take on the motoring tour. Those horns have a life span with me playing with it all the time. I suspect the UFO install might suffer the same fate.

No, unlike you I don't play with my horn all the time! :roflmao::roflmao::roflmao:

I will reserve the use of it for special occasions, but in Sydney traffic these days those special occasions can occur frequently.

In 2004 on one of our tours with a French Citroen club, there was this bizarre rebodied DS that looked like a mark 2 Jag - another story another time - and the car had "La cucaracha" horns. Every 30 seconds we heard that freaking thing. I think we were all well and truly over it by the end of the day!!!!

 

[mnm]

OK people.... picked myself up a set of "Riviera" horns for the DecidedlySpecial...

can someone advise how much LHM to drop into the compressor?


Here it is with the lid off... appears to be some brown oil on the mechanism. I assume the little pad is what we are lubricating?

Regarding the wiring... does the extension run across to the other horns and pick up power from there?

Also, there are 4 prongs on the relay, numbered 1 to 4. Should there be a wire for no. 4, a fused wire to the battery.? Only the 3 connectors on the current wire harness.

Cheers

Matthew

 

[UFO]

Yes you do pick up the trigger from the other wires that feed the horns. You need to work out which one is the active for "country" (aka STOP DOING WHAT YOU'RE DOING YOU IDIOT!!) and that connects to the relay. The relay also needs a live (fused) feed from the battery as this of course provides the oomph when the trigger feed from the horn circuit closes the relay. I'll leave further discussion to those more expert in this area than me.:wink2:

 

[GreenBlood]

can someone advise how much LHM to drop into the compressor?

Regarding the wiring... does the extension run across to the other horns and pick up power from there?

Also, there are 4 prongs on the relay, numbered 1 to 4. Should there be a wire for no. 4, a fused wire to the battery.? Only the 3 connectors on the current wire harness.

Cheers

Matthew

Matthew,
To the best of my knowledge, the compressor would use a light machine oil not LHM.

I have a really poor quality wiring diagram for the Sanor relay, from what I can make out this is how you would make connections.
1. Battery (Fused).
2. Trigger from 'Country horn' connection.
3. Air Horn Compressor
4. Ground/Earth.

Cheers
Chris

 

[michaelr]

One further detail! The trigger wire does indeed come from the "country" horn which is the second activated by the two stage horn stalk. It is run in parallel to that horn (ie the town horn also stays connected) so that the town horn and air horn relay work simultaneously, though due to the time it takes for the compressor to get going it sounds sequential.

In use a gentle push on the horn stalk sounds the "town" horn, a brief hard push on the stalk sounds town and country together and a prolonged push moves bendy-buses.

 

[mnm]

Matthew,
To the best of my knowledge, the compressor would use a light machine oil not LHM.

I have a really poor quality wiring diagram for the Sanor relay, from what I can make out this is how you would make connections.
1. Battery (Fused).
2. Trigger from 'Country horn' connection.
3. Air Horn Compressor
4. Ground/Earth.

Cheers
Chris

Thanks Chris

so what are the dots on the relay. yellow (no 3) , white( no 2) and black (no 1)? No 4 is behind them.

My green wire is the feed from the country horn and it has a yellow connector...the other two connectors are white, with yellow wires.

Matthew

 

[David S]

The supply from the battery to the relay apparently has no fuse, but has a sheath. Adding an inline fuse near the battery might be a sensible idea though.

The handbook provides better information on fuses in late cars than the manual. You will see that each inner headlamp should have it's own inline fuse at the point where the wing harnesses join the main harness.

 

[UFO]

In use a gentle push on the horn stalk sounds the "town" horn, a brief hard push on the stalk sounds town and country together and a prolonged push moves bendy-buses.

That would be a pull on the stalk through one or two stages. A push will flash the headlights. One of the downsides of that stalk is that you cannot flash the lights and blast the horns at the same time unless you are adept with the light stalk. Apparently pulling on the stalk and yelling at older drivers "To move your boring car!" (Toyota Camry) can lead to the stalk snapping off - or so Mort Subite will tell you

 

[Greg C]

That would be a pull on the stalk through one or two stages. A push will flash the headlights. One of the downsides of that stalk is that you cannot flash the lights and blast the horns at the same time unless you are adept with the light stalk. Apparently pulling on the stalk and yelling at older drivers "To move your boring car!" (Toyota Camry) can lead to the stalk snapping off - or so Mort Subite will tell you

Poor D drivers. The CX is perfect, just squeeze hard on both sides for the ultimate 'get out of the f.....g way'

 

[Greg C]

That would be a pull on the stalk through one or two stages. A push will flash the headlights. One of the downsides of that stalk is that you cannot flash the lights and blast the horns at the same time unless you are adept with the light stalk. Apparently pulling on the stalk and yelling at older drivers "To move your boring car!" (Toyota Camry) can lead to the stalk snapping off - or so Mort Subite will tell you

Poor D drivers. The CX is perfect, just squeeze hard on both sides for the ultimate 'get out of the f.....g way'

 

[UFO]

Poor D drivers. The CX is perfect, just squeeze hard on both sides for the ultimate 'get out of the f.....g way'

AKA the Mrs UFO method - of the past.

 

[GreenBlood]

Thanks Chris

so what are the dots on the relay. yellow (no 3) , white( no 2) and black (no 1)? No 4 is behind them.

My green wire is the feed from the country horn and it has a yellow connector...the other two connectors are white, with yellow wires.

Matthew

Matthew,

I think we need HRE to step in here. . .

According to the wiring diagram in 814-1 (bearing in mind you have a D Special so we are looking at models fitted with airhorns).
1. 'N' Black Battery+
2. 'Bc' White Country trigger
3. 'J' Yellow Earthing on the compressor
4. 'Mv' Mauve +feed to compressor (no doubt now faded to appear as white?)

Colours would be sleeve colour not wire colour.

This disagrees with the scrawled diagram I refereed to earlier (3 and 4 change positions), but I would suggest it is the more correct. Might be better to hear from HRE before making those connections.

Cheers
Chris

 

[Hotrodelectric]

Matthew,

I think we need HRE to step in here. . .

According to the wiring diagram in 814-1 (bearing in mind you have a D Special so we are looking at models fitted with airhorns).
1. 'N' Black Battery+
2. 'Bc' White Country trigger
3. 'J' Yellow Earthing on the compressor
4. 'Mv' Mauve +feed to compressor (no doubt now faded to appear as white?)

Colours would be sleeve colour not wire colour.

This disagrees with the scrawled diagram I refereed to earlier (3 and 4 change positions), but I would suggest it is the more correct. Might be better to hear from HRE before making those connections.

Cheers
Chris

Ok. Let's try this a second time. The page crashed when I hit 'post' the first time. :cussing:

Yellow will be the trip in from the country horn. White is the power out to the compressor. Black is power in from the battery. Mauve is relay ground. That's the problem with the factory diagrams. Without the 'wire schedule', reading one is sort of like reading tea leaves still in the bag- futile at best.

For a bit more detail: yes, the color sleeves at the wire ends are the most important determinant. But if anyone is interested, the wires actually are colored. The relay trip and ground are 1.0mm green, power in and out are 2.0mm yellow.

The battery to relay wire typically has a white vinyl sheath covering it, as it runs from the battery to the relay. On cars where the battery is on your passenger side, this lead runs along the front almost inside the bumper.

The relay trigger is taken from one of the electric country horns (connections are also white, town horn is blue).

Air horns, IIRC, were an option for everybody except on Pallas, where they were standard fit.

 

[mnm]

Thank you gentlemen,

Token Yank's description would seem to match what I've got in terms of the markings on the relay and the colour/ thickness of the wires and sleeves. My green wire is 1mm and has a yellow sleeve... it is also sheathed in a black casing with the country horn white sleeves at the other end.

The 2mm yellow wire has white sleeves on both ends which would be power out to compressor as you describe.

The relay ground wire is also green, the mauve sleeve must be faded as you suggest Chris, but it is spliced with a 2 mm yellow wire with a connection for the neg. terminal on the compressor AND an earth connection for the bracket mounting bolt.

It would appear the only wire I am missing is the battery poz? with the white sheath. Would this need to be a 2mm wire as well? And fused or not?

Matthew

 

[GreenBlood]

Thank you gentlemen,

Token Yank's description would seem to match what I've got in terms of the markings on the relay and the colour/ thickness of the wires and sleeves. My green wire is 1mm and has a yellow sleeve... it is also sheathed in a black casing with the country horn white sleeves at the other end.

The 4mm yellow wire has white sleeves on both ends which would be power out to compressor as you describe.

The relay ground wire is also green, the mauve sleeve must be faded as you suggest Chris, but it is spliced with a 4 mm yellow wire with a connection for the neg. terminal on the compressor AND an earth connection for the bracket mounting bolt.

It would appear the only wire I am missing is the battery poz? with the white sheath. Would this need to be a 2 mm wire as well? And fused or not?

Matthew

Sounds like you have it sussed, thanks again to HRE :wink2:

This is a better diagram that fully agrees with HRE and how you describe your connections (also from 814-1).
The green wire at the top goes to battery+ and as David S has pointed out the diagram shows no fuse, given it's length of travel a sheath and a fuse close to the battery is good insurance.

This also shows the earth connecting at the compressor and mount bracket as you have determined.

I would use a heavy gauge wire as the purpose of the relay is to deliver optimum current directly to the compressor.

Cheers
Chris

 

[mnm]

Cool... very much appreciated... now next question. I've not tested the compressor as yet, given its age is it likely to still work, also the relay?

The long horn appears to be working but the bellows? in the short one is cracked. Not a big deal I have a modern set of trumpets and a compressor at home, but the originals would have been nice.

Matthew

 

[Hotrodelectric]

Thank you gentlemen,

Token Yank's description would seem to match what I've got in terms of the markings on the relay and the colour/ thickness of the wires and sleeves. My green wire is 1mm and has a yellow sleeve... it is also sheathed in a black casing with the country horn white sleeves at the other end.

Yah, a black sheath on that country horn trip into the relay, because it's a "flying" (not in a harness) lead.

The 2mm yellow wire has white sleeves on both ends which would be power out to compressor as you describe.

The relay ground wire is also green, the mauve sleeve must be faded as you suggest Chris, but it is spliced with a 2 mm yellow wire with a connection for the neg. terminal on the compressor AND an earth connection for the bracket mounting bolt.

It would appear the only wire I am missing is the battery poz? with the white sheath. Would this need to be a 2mm wire as well? And fused or not?

Matthew

Yes- it is a 2mm wire. Fusing is a good idea (I would say 20A), but it doesn't come that way from the factory. Just so long as your compressor spins free, there shouldn't be a problem. Depending on how old your car- or even just the solenoid- there were two ways to hook it up. On the second nose and earlier 3rd nose cars, the solenoid has a 4mm male stud underneath where the daisy wheel sits. That will be battery power. On the later cars, it was connected directly to the battery connector pinch bolt.

Sounds like you have it sussed, thanks again to HRE :wink2:

This is a better diagram that fully agrees with HRE and how you describe your connections (also from 814-1).
The green wire at the top goes to battery+ and as David S has pointed out the diagram shows no fuse, given it's length of travel a sheath and a fuse close to the battery is good insurance.

This also shows the earth connecting at the compressor and mount bracket as you have determined.

I would use a heavy gauge wire as the purpose of the relay is to deliver optimum current directly to the compressor.

Cheers
Chris

You make me blush, Chris. There are others here who know this stuff, I just happen to be the loudest mouth.

Cool... very much appreciated... now next question. I've not tested the compressor as yet, given its age is it likely to still work, also the relay?

The long horn appears to be working but the bellows? in the short one is cracked. Not a big deal I have a modern set of trumpets and a compressor at home, but the originals would have been nice.

Matthew

In my experience, the relay, yes. These are unusually tough units. The neat thing is they can be subbed out for a standard Bosch "icecube" relay- nothing special or magic. The compressor is another story, though. Try it, test it, but if it's been setting for a long while with no lubrication, chances are it's stuck. It's easy to disassemble and unstick.

The factory trumpets are adjustable for sound. You can fix the crack, just be aware that the plastic they used to make these is really fragile by now.

 

[Hotrodelectric]

Forgot to add: the sheaths can be made simply with 6mm shrink tubing. The vinyl tubing is preferable if you can get it, but even 2:1 standard shrink tubing will add the color and some protection. Use a hair dryer and a lot of patience.

 

[mnm]

In my experience, the relay, yes. These are unusually tough units. The neat thing is they can be subbed out for a standard Bosch "icecube" relay- nothing special or magic. The compressor is another story, though. Try it, test it, but if it's been setting for a long while with no lubrication, chances are it's stuck. It's easy to disassemble and unstick.

The factory trumpets are adjustable for sound. You can fix the crack, just be aware that the plastic they used to make these is really fragile by now.

The trumpets are OK but it's the thin membrane inside the base that's cracked. I worked out they were adjustable yesterday while I was examining them. I thought that was pretty cool.

Matthew