Feugo with mid-mounted 24V V6

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fiveohs

Active member
Fellow Frogger
Joined
Jun 20, 2002
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396
I've just been looking at a couple of PRV V6 MVS Venturi websites, and had an interesting thought:

Wouldn't it be interesting to cut the rear underbody out from under a Fuego and mount a Laguna 24V V6, 5 speed transaxle and front suspension under the glass hatch.

Any comments?

Dave
 
Why bother, a the Renault/Peugeot/Volvo V6 fits under the bonnet quite comfortably and the Laguna V6 probably would too. If you wanted rear wheel drive, you could use the diff and box from the Volvo.

Ren
cheers!
 
Europa:
Buy a Venturi instead and get some street cred with it...
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Yeah right! Like I've got the money to do that.

Importing and converting a Venturi to the relevent ADRs would cost as much or more than a mid-engined conversion on the Fuego alone, let alone buying a Venturi.

Anyway, as French car enthusiasts, I think most of us here are unconcerned with street cred.

Dave
 
REN TIN TIN:
Why bother, a the Renault/Peugeot/Volvo V6 fits under the bonnet quite comfortably and the Laguna V6 probably would too. :
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True, but as Dave Cavanagh has mentioned, it's very difficult to make them handle OK with that much weight hanging out the front, let alone handle superb.

A front engined RWD conversion wouldn't help the handling much, if at all (may even make it worse), and probably wouldn't be much easier than a mid engined conversion, by the time you modify the underbody to suit.

I'm just very interested in PRV V6 engined sportsters, but there isn't any here, apart from a few expensive imports, so I'm thinking through various ways that one could be built.

Dave
 
Europa:

I have heard talk/rumour about a similar conversion on a 15/17...
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Where did you hear about that? Do you know any details?

Dave

<small>[ 03 December 2002, 05:16 PM: Message edited by: fiveohs ]</small>
 
fiveohs:

Wouldn't it be interesting to cut the rear underbody out from under a Fuego and mount a Laguna 24V V6, 5 speed transaxle and front suspension under the glass hatch.
Dave
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fiveohs:
Originally posted by REN TIN TIN:
[qb]

I'm just very interested in PRV V6 engined sportsters, but there isn't any here, apart from a few expensive imports, so I'm thinking through various ways that one could be built.

Dave
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I can't think which would be cheaper, planting a front cut from a late model Laguna mid-engined under a Fuego, with the inherent engineering costs to make is road registered. Or buy an "expensive import" for which I read a PRV V6 sports, such as an Alpine A310/GTA/A610.... :-)

See Alpine Affaire in Melbourne, they may have one available, an "expensive import" that is.......

Simon
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fiveohs
Anyway, as French car enthusiasts, I think most of us here are unconcerned with street cred. Dave.
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I deeply resent that remark. I'm extremely concerned about stret cred. I drive an R12 to make sure I don't have any. :D

Stuey
 
Come on what are you guys on about..the Renault 12 is a chick magnet...not every car has featured prominently in a tampon ad...that's a heavy enough reality to test even Stuey's super springs.

As for the let's put an F18 gas turbine in the back of a 4cv concept....will we call ourselves Snail Boys or Escargot Boys?

I had to bite my tongue with the 504 rotary posting....I guess at least this proposal keeps it all in the Froggy family....sort of mechanical incest really...

Isn't Coopers wonderful?
a_drink a_drink

<small>[ 03 December 2002, 08:42 PM: Message edited by: BogMaster ]</small>
 
Originally posted by BogMaster:
[the Renault 12 is a chick magnet...not every car has featured prominently in a tampon ad...

Well i guess i just learned something i thought the black thing hanging of the rear of cars was an anti static strap, looks as though it may be a retrieval string
mallet mallet mallet mallet
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Simon:
I can't think which would be cheaper, planting a front cut from a late model Laguna mid-engined under a Fuego, with the inherent engineering costs to make is road registered. Or buy an "expensive import" for which I read a PRV V6 sports, such as an Alpine A310/GTA/A610.... :-)
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Well if you're careful and use your hands and your brain and don't just throw money at the conversion (like some do) you could do the mid engined conversion for alot less than the $30,000+++ that an Alpine or Venturi would cost.

I'm sure a rusty/smashed late model Laguna could be picked up from New Caledonia, or somewhere for under $10,000. The cost of just importing the front cut wouldn't be too much.

Dave
 
I'd just like to add to my last post that it is very easy to get really fussy and buy all the most expensive bolts and hoses, etc, etc, etc, and these conversions can quickly blow out to many tens of thousands of dollars. But you really have to resist these temptations, because it gets out of hand.

I've seen this kind of thing happen. The 600cc racing car we built at Uni ended up costing our sponsors in excess of $50,000. On the other hand I've seen motorbike engined hillclimb specials which exceeded the performance of our car, which were built for well under $10,000.

Dave
 
REN TIN TIN:
the Renault/Peugeot/Volvo V6 fits under the bonnet quite comfortably and the Laguna V6 probably would too.
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Just been thinking a little about this. If it was converted to front engine RWD, the advantage would be that you could mount the V6 further back in the engine bay, because the front drive box wouldn't be in the way. You can also use a transmission tunnel from something else and weld it into the Fuego floor. The Peugeot RWD IRS and diff is fairly easy to adapt onto other body shells, due to its largely self supported layout. It's been used quite a few times on various vehicles, for this reason.

It would also eliminate the expensive of a Laguna (or similar) front cut. All the parts for the front engined RWD set-up are ALOT cheaper, so the biggest costs would be the Engineers certificate and all the welding and cutting.

So I guess this suggestion has more merit than I first thought. Thanks!

Dave

<small>[ 04 December 2002, 08:49 AM: Message edited by: fiveohs ]</small>
 
fiveohs:
All the parts for the front engined RWD set-up are ALOT cheaper
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...of course I was refering to a 12V V6 RWD conversion here.
 
fiveohs:
Well if you're careful and use your hands and your brain and don't just throw money at the conversion (like some do) you could do the mid engined conversion for alot less than the $30,000+++ that an Alpine or Venturi would cost.

I'm sure a rusty/smashed late model Laguna could be picked up from New Caledonia, or somewhere for under $10,000. The cost of just importing the front cut wouldn't be too much.
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But what do you end up with?

Will it be driveable on the road?
Don't forget you would have to beef up braking & suspension components etc. (Also, don't forget about conversion costs from dead-beam rear axle to independent rear suspension, fuel tank relocation, body strengthening due to removal of rear crossmembers etc. etc.)
How about insurance?
Are you sure you could really do this work for under $30K? (including engineering & certification costs)
And after all this effort and cost, your resale value would be questionable. At least with an Alpine/Venturi, you've got something with a bit of street cred.

I know of a restorable A310 that was brought to Australia from Europe for less than $10K. That'll be on the road for considerably less than $30K, plus it won't look like a "fat, bloated R15 descendant" (thanks for that quote, Adam S!)

Also, FWIW, Phase I Lagunas had the PRV V6, Phase II had another V6 altogether..
 
Europa
[QB]
Will it be driveable on the road?
Don't forget you would have to beef up braking & suspension components etc. (Also, don't forget about conversion costs from dead-beam rear axle to independent rear suspension, fuel tank relocation, body strengthening due to removal of rear crossmembers etc. etc.)
How about insurance?
Are you sure you could really do this work for under $30K? (including engineering & certification costs)
[QB]
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Yes, I know, I know, I know! The thing is you have to do almost EVERYTHING yourself. Once you start getting other people to do stuff, that's when it get's WAY above $30,000. There's two ways of doing these things, either with LOTS of time, or with LOTS of money. As you probably know, the "lots of time" type of projects often never get finished, whereas the "lots of money" ones often do, so that skews the perspective of what can be achieved quite abit. As you said the major costs will always be the engineers certificate and insurance.

You would also have to spend ALOT of time tuning and modifying it to get it to handle, as you mentioned.

As for resale value. I would not put all that work in to any car, if I had plans to sell it. Actually I don't even buy any car anymore, if I think I'd want to sell it one day. I now only buy a car if I plan to keep it.

Anyway, don't worry, I don't actually have any plans to actually do this conversion. I just like discussing crazy froggy conversions on this message board (you may have noticed some of my other similar conversations in the Peugeot message board). As I said I don't sell cars, so therefore there's a definite limit to how many cars I can buy (and modify) before it gets out of hand. At the moment it looks like I'm just going to end up with my 505 for every day, another highly modified 504 for weekends, my Peugeot engined special for club events, and a shed full of 504/505 parts including a few spare shells. In addition to these I may have one old Subaru that's been raised, for getting to a few inaccessible places.

Now, IF after that I have any space/time left for anything else, then I may decide to build a PRV engined sportster, or restore an old Alpine or something (if I can get one cheap enough), or I may decide to lighten a 505 extensively and modify it along the lines of what I posted in the Peugeot forum with a 24V 605 V6 or something, but realistically, I don't think I will get the time.

Anyhow, where did that person find that cheap A310?

Dave
 
Before any one else says anything about cost, I should point out a couple of things.

To do such a conversion in under 2 years would probably cost more than $50,000, regardless of how much time you could put in.

To do it for under $30,000 would take atleast 5 years, if you also had a full time job, and quite probably would take more than 10 years.

The point is, though, that if there is no time limit, and you know the right people, have the right skills, and have the right equipment, and the determination, you can do some great things for very little money.

I'm not trying to say that converting a Fuego in such a way is a good idea. In fact, the time involved would mean that it isn't. What I am trying to do is get a discussion going of what you could do with one of the Renault or Peugeot V6s and what kind of cars you could put them in, in various layouts. I started two threads on this issue in the Peugeot section, but the response has been dissapointing.

I have driven and been in a few 504s with V6 engines, but most have been dissapointing, except for the cool engine note. The one modified 90 degree V6 504 I drove had a great engine, and the 60 degree V6 406s I've been in had awesome sounding V6s too. So I think there is alot of potential for these various V6 engines if modified appropriately and mounted in something smaller and more sporty than a 504/505/604/605/406/607/Laguna, etc.

The obvious thing would be to mount one in a ready engineered kit car, but most are too low, too ugly or too primitive in the suspension department for my liking, and the few that aren't are often more expensive than a genuine V6 A310.

Anyway, I hope this stimulates some disussion of what other vehicles theses engines could be put in.

Dave
 
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