Conversion to electronic ignition

[COL]

I have my cheap Chinese knock off pointless conversion mounted up on the points plate.

This did not come with instructions so I made my own up .

I have just mounted the electronics in place of the points, I had to remove the little plastic bit that supports and insulates the black spring for the points. I also added an earth braid because I don't trust the sliding contact onto the points plate for the vacuum advance.

When I get time I will install it in the car and see if it works, but so far so good.

 

[JohnW]

I have my cheap Chinese knock off pointless conversion mounted up on the points plate.

This did not come with instructions so I made my own up .

I have just mounted the electronics in place of the points, I had to remove the little plastic bit that supports and insulates the black spring for the points. I also added an earth braid because I don't trust the sliding contact onto the points plate for the vacuum advance.

When I get time I will install it in the car and see if it works, but so far so good.

It's neater than the Hot Spark (see my photo in an earlier post in this thread). Despite every effort, the Hot Spark rotor disc just brushes the static unit (you can see fine debris in my photo) and has worn mine away a bit. No issues with its behaviour though. I have two of them and both just brush. Be interesting to see how yours fits, apart from performance.

Mr Wildebeeste noted that his Hot Spark died of high voltage, in the mid-14s if I recall. I have a dead steady 13.8 volts and no problems. Good idea to double check your alternator/regulator system ahead of fitting I'd suggest.

 

[COL]

It's neater than the Hot Spark (see my photo in an earlier post in this thread). Despite every effort, the Hot Spark rotor disc just brushes the static unit (you can see fine debris in my photo) and has worn mine away a bit. No issues with its behaviour though. I have two of them and both just brush. Be interesting to see how yours fits, apart from performance.

Mr Wildebeeste noted that his Hot Spark died of high voltage, in the mid-14s if I recall. I have a dead steady 13.8 volts and no problems. Good idea to double check your alternator/regulator system ahead of fitting I'd suggest.

I will check the alternator voltage, can't remember what is was last time I checked but I think it was something like 14 volts.

Not sure if the little disc rotor will hit, I suppose I will find out soon enough.

 

[JohnW]

I've just sorted a 123 Ignition problem with the rev counter - see post 123 Ignition systems and rev counters in the technical problems area.

- - - Updated - - -

I've just sorted a 123 Ignition problem with the rev counter - see post 123 Ignition systems and rev counters in the "Technical & Performance" area.

 

[COL]

Progress So Far

I decided to install my Chinese Pertronix/123/Acuspark knock off as it is a nice sunny day here.n I decided to do the installation while the distributor was still on the car.

I removed the old points; the piece of plastic and stud that goes through the body of the distributor. Also removed the little white plastic bit that supports and insulates the black spring for the points. I decided to leave the capacitor and the original distributor wires in place so that if the electronic module turns up it's legs there is minimum amount of work to convert the distributor back to points operation

I installed the black electronic module but found that the screw for the distributor cap clip was protruding to far into the distributor and interfered with the aluminium plate on the bottom of the electronic module and would not allow the vacuum advance to function. No biggie just remove the screw and cut approximately 4 mm off. I had to remove this screw as I need somewhere to attach the braid for earthing the base plate of the electronics module. Fed the wires through the hole that was left in the removal of the points above. I had to extend the wires as they were to short to reach the ignition coil and connected them. Installed the black plastic piece containing the magnets which slipped on without and problems. I could not re-install the round plastic cover that separates distributor cap form the distributor body because the electronic module is to tall. The finally replace the distributor cap.

Started the car and it barely run, then thought yes I need to adjust the timing. I advanced the timing by about 40 deg at the distributor. The car idles well here and smoothly. I will most likely need to make further timing adjustments when I take the car out on the road.

I also checked my alternator for and its putting out 14.3 volts.

The pics probably explain the install better.

 

[JohnW]

Very neat Col. I had that 45 degree problem with the 123 distributor (your unit isn't a 123 knock-off btw, as it is totally different) when I timed it for points closing from the previous firing instead of points opening for the correct firing. I imagine your device is the same as the Hot Spark, in that you can't adjust static timing. I fitted mine in situ (hoping not to drop anything small into the distributor) and then used a neon timing lamp to tweak it a tad.

The only points I have to worry about are those on the 4CV and they will last forever as they are switching a 6V transistorised ignition module.

 

[COL]

Very neat Col. I had that 45 degree problem with the 123 distributor (your unit isn't a 123 knock-off btw, as it is totally different) when I timed it for points closing from the previous firing instead of points opening for the correct firing. I imagine your device is the same as the Hot Spark, in that you can't adjust static timing. I fitted mine in situ (hoping not to drop anything small into the distributor) and then used a neon timing lamp to tweak it a tad.

The only points I have to worry about are those on the 4CV and they will last forever as they are switching a 6V transistorised ignition module.

Thanks John,

I wasn't sure which of the available electronics point conversions that the Chinese copied so just listed a few that came to mind.

The hall effect device must be mounted in a different location in respect to the points, therefore the need to adjust the timing, which is not a problem but still worth mentioning.

 

[21571]

Thanks for this discussion. I've been tempted by one of these. My A310 has electronic fuel injection which is triggered by a set of contacts in the dizzy below the points plate. The vacuum advance has also been ditched long before my time for a scorpion ignition module. I wasn't willing to invest too much into a system as my Bosch dizzy number is very rare and won't line up with anything really. Haven't checked the points for a part number. $40 for one I can handle if it doesn't work. My engine likes a lot of advance. Street tuned by driving around, putting it in 5th at 60 and if it just pings it's perfect!

Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk

 

[COL]

Thanks for this discussion. I've been tempted by one of these. My A310 has electronic fuel injection which is triggered by a set of contacts in the dizzy below the points plate. The vacuum advance has also been ditched long before my time for a scorpion ignition module. I wasn't willing to invest too much into a system as my Bosch dizzy number is very rare and won't line up with anything really. Haven't checked the points for a part number. $40 for one I can handle if it doesn't work. My engine likes a lot of advance. Street tuned by driving around, putting it in 5th at 60 and if it just pings it's perfect!

Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk

If you are handy at shaping up small bits of aluminium plate and have some small drills and taps it would not be hard to make one of these point replacement modules fit anything.

For your setup I think you would need two of these, one for the ignition and one for the injection system. Not sure how much room there is inside the Bosch distributor where the points are for the injection system. These modules are quite a bit taller than a set of points.

 

[renault8&10]

This is an accuspark setup.

COL's looks a bit more like Pertronix to me.

 

[COL]

COL,

Your Chinese knock off looks very much like a pertronix to me. The accuspark is a bit narrower and possibly a bit higher. I did take some pics at some stage, I’ll see if I can load them.

Not sure what they copied, but they have done a reasonable job, everything lines up without having to modify the base plate. The only modification I have made to the distributor was to shorten the screw that holds the distributor cap clip.

 

[JohnW]

This is an accuspark setup.

COL's looks a bit more like Pertronix to me.

Agreed. My Hot Spark (post #2) looks much the same as your photo with the switch exactly where the points were, and no timing change needed. The white plastic component moves like the points did for advance/retard. Yours clears the magnet wheel properly too, which the Hot Spark unit does not.

I'm embarrassed by how clean yours is..... I'd better take mine apart, lift my game and clean it. My photo has about 30,000 km since installation, in my defence!

 

[renault8&10]

I wouldn’t feel too bad John. I don’t think ANY of my hobby cars have done 30000kms over their lifetime in my ownership.

 

[COL]

Took the R12 Wagon for a drive this afternoon, had to advance the ignition timing more to get the car to accelerate properly.

The ignition timing is advanced as far as physically possible now as the vacuum capsule now touches on the little lever that attaches to the butterfly spindle on the carbie. Will have to give this a little more thought.

 

[robmac]

Took the R12 Wagon for a drive this afternoon, had to advance the ignition timing more to get the car to accelerate properly.

The ignition timing is advanced as far as physically possible now as the vacuum capsule now touches on the little lever that attaches to the butterfly spindle on the carbie. Will have to give this a little more thought.

Move the plug leads and rotate the dizzie to maintain timing.

 

[COL]

Move the plug leads and rotate the dizzie to maintain timing.

I did try that Rob as its a nice quick easy fix, but when I tried to start the car it back fired. I'm not sure that I can get the distributor back the 90 deg required to make this happen. When the distributor is turned the other way it will hit the alternator.

I will have another look at this tomorrow and see how we go.

 

[COL]

I had a bit more of a look at my electronics points conversion this morning, I noticed where the 45 deg advance thing comes from. The magnets are cast into the plastic button in-between the lobes that operate the points, not sure if other manufacturers are in the same place but it makes sense as this is where there is the most plastic.



I have also noticed that with the other manufacturers that the electronic module is in a different location to mine. Mine is installed pretty much where the points would be, and others are further round in the advanced direction from where the points would be.

Effectively with my installation I have the moved the firing of the ignition 45 deg in relation to the rotor button which explains why I need to rotate the distributor so far. So need to think of an easy solution to this problem. Obviously the people that designed this nether thought about the rotor button and cam lobe relationship.

 

[jaahn]

I had a bit more of a look at my electronics points conversion this morning, I noticed where the 45 deg advance thing comes from. The magnets are cast into the plastic button in-between the lobes that operate the points, not sure if other manufacturers are in the same place but it makes sense as this is where there is the most plastic.I have also noticed that with the other manufacturers that the electronic module is in a different location to mine. Mine is installed pretty much where the points would be, and others are further round in the advanced direction from where the points would be.Effectively with my installation I have the moved the firing of the ignition 45 deg in relation to the rotor button which explains why I need to rotate the distributor so far. So need to think of an easy solution to this problem. Obviously the people that designed this nether thought about the rotor button and cam lobe relationship.

Hi Col the answer is to pull out the skew gear and shift it a tooth or two. But if you look at the number of teeth to get the degrees per tooth and match that with the 90deg shift of the leads you will find a suitable position. I used a Fiat twin cam engine in a buggy and the dissy was splined into the gear with a fine spline and i had to chase the position of that quite a bit if careless. Good luck Jaahn

 

[robmac]

Hi Col the answer is to pull out the skew gear and shift it a tooth or two. But if you look at the number of teeth to get the degrees per tooth and match that with the 90deg shift of the leads you will find a suitable position. I used a Fiat twin cam engine in a buggy and the dissy was splined into the gear with a fine spline and i had to chase the position of that quite a bit if careless. Good luck Jaahn

Won't that procedure upset the position of rotor relative to the firing cylinder ?

 

[jaahn]

Won't that procedure upset the position of rotor relative to the firing cylinder ?

Hi Rob
Perhaps !! The devil is in the details. Without looking at the relative angular positions of the parts in the dissy, it is hard to tell from my keyboard !! You must check that the firing trigger is positioned so the rotor is at the appropriate cap lug, with room for the advance also.
Jaahn
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