Conversion to electronic ignition

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I have come up with a fix to get the rotor button back in phase with the firing of the coil. I have used a rotary burr to remove the rotor button's locating lug and made up a new locating lug and installed it 45 deg from the original. I have moved the rotor button in a clockwise direction.

When the glue dries i will put the rotor button back in and try it out.

I was thinking to get the distributor body physically back to its right place I might remove the coupling from the bottom of the distributor and drill another hole 45 deg from the one that is there now. With the engine (R17TL) that I have in the car I can't simply just adjust the drive dog to another location without removing the head.
 
Here is a pic of the modified rotor button, you can see where I ground down the original locating lug and made a new lug out of a 4 mm cheese head screw. I drilled a 4 mm hole in the side of the rotor button to locate the lug and add some mechanical strength as well.
 

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Hi Col


Just to add to what Jaan said, The centre of the skew gear has a hole in to which you can screw a bolt. Lift and rotate a tooth or two to get the alignment right.

Ex.
 
COL said:
I had a bit more of a look at my electronics points conversion this morning, I noticed where the 45 deg advance thing comes from. The magnets are cast into the plastic button in-between the lobes that operate the points, not sure if other manufacturers are in the same place but it makes sense as this is where there is the most plastic.

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I have also noticed that with the other manufacturers that the electronic module is in a different location to mine. Mine is installed pretty much where the points would be, and others are further round in the advanced direction from where the points would be.

Effectively with my installation I have the moved the firing of the ignition 45 deg in relation to the rotor button which explains why I need to rotate the distributor so far. So need to think of an easy solution to this problem. Obviously the people that designed this nether thought about the rotor button and cam lobe relationship.
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That's interesting. I hadn't thought of that. Tomorrow, rain and gales permitting, I'll have a look at mine more closely. I think the Hot Spark must have the magnets in the "right" place.

Of course, we haven't much room to move without the vacuum capsule fouling the spark plug leads.
 
Exfrogger said:
View attachment 120908


Hi Col


Just to add to what Jaan said, The centre of the skew gear has a hole in to which you can screw a bolt. Lift and rotate a tooth or two to get the alignment right.

Ex.
Click to expand...

That is all well and good if you have a 810-** engine but mine is an 807-10 from an R17TL and the skew gear does not come out like that with the head on. :(
 
COL said:
Here is a pic of the modified rotor button, you can see where I ground down the original locating lug and made a new lug out of a 4 mm cheese head screw. I drilled a 4 mm hole in the side of the rotor button to locate the lug and add some mechanical strength as well.
Click to expand...

I tried out the modified rotor button today and was a non goer.

I put the #1 cylinder at TDC so that I could have a look at how much rotation I have on the the distributor with the rotor stationary and found that the rotor did not loose contact while I rotated the distributor body through the available arc. This was my concern and the reason the modifying the rotor button.

The car seems to run OK where the distributor is at present (advanced as far as physically allowable), I will see how it goes when I take it on a longer drive up some hills, if performance is down I will think about what to change next.
 
COL said:
Here is a pic of the modified rotor button, you can see where I ground down the original locating lug and made a new lug out of a 4 mm cheese head screw. I drilled a 4 mm hole in the side of the rotor button to locate the lug and add some mechanical strength as well.
Click to expand...

I like that 4 mm hole. Call me conservative, but I'd be making a second one for the glovebox.... Such a neat idea Col. That's what you call lateral thinking.
 
JohnW said:
Why not? 45 degrees the wrong way?
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I did think about that John, then I decided to see how much rotation there was with the rotor stationary measuring between the centre terminal and cylinder #1 terminal of the distributor cap. I found that there is enough range in rotation and decided to leave things as they are for the time being.
 
COL said:
I did think about that John, then I decided to see how much rotation there was with the rotor stationary measuring between the centre terminal and cylinder #1 terminal of the distributor cap. I found that there is enough range in rotation and decided to leave things as they are for the time being.
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If it runs..... :)
 
Okay I think I'm on to it but I think someone already suggested this, possibly you Col.

Attached are some pics of a dizzy from an 810 motor but I think the principle is the same for the 807 dizzies. with regard to the way the peg fits into the slot in the skew gear . The peg is offset so that it can only go in one way. Under the coiled spring (shown in the pic as being wound onto to the land above) there is a pin that is easily punched out. It appears that this is on the centre line. This means you can drive it out and rotate the peg 180 deg. Which I think would only give you 90deg change in relative position of the rotor to a terminal on the cap, which you are saying doesn't work (because you've tried swapping around the plug leads). But you may be able to drill the peg collar in another place to effect a relative change closer to 30-45 deg.

D1.jpg
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Exfrogger said:
Okay I think I'm on to it but I think someone already suggested this, possibly you Col.

Attached are some pics of a dizzy from an 810 motor but I think the principle is the same for the 807 dizzies. with regard to the way the peg fits into the slot in the skew gear . The peg is offset so that it can only go in one way. Under the coiled spring (shown in the pic as being wound onto to the land above) there is a pin that is easily punched out. It appears that this is on the centre line. This means you can drive it out and rotate the peg 180 deg. Which I think would only give you 90deg change in relative position of the rotor to a terminal on the cap, which you are saying doesn't work (because you've tried swapping around the plug leads). But you may be able to drill the peg collar in another place to effect a relative change closer to 30-45 deg.

View attachment 120951
View attachment 120952
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Yes that is correct, I had thought about doing that. This would bring the distributor back around to where it was before I installed that electronic module.
 
COL said:
Yes it is running fine at the moment.

The only question is how long will this cheap module go for? So far so good
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Inexpensive perhaps but these are pretty simple by the standards of modern electronics. I'd expect it to behave provided that (a) the coil primary resistance is correct and (b) the alternator is not over-voltage.

I'm particularly happy with my 123 Ignition as I use the car more since I installed it last week. It's definitely better with its fully electronic advance/retard system than the hybrid model you are using (and which I used for many years) with an electronic generation of the LT pulse to the coil but mechanical advance system. I suspect I've had a bit of slop or resistance in the centrifugal advance system.

Cheers

John
 
COL said:
If you are handy at shaping up small bits of aluminium plate and have some small drills and taps it would not be hard to make one of these point replacement modules fit anything.

For your setup I think you would need two of these, one for the ignition and one for the injection system. Not sure how much room there is inside the Bosch distributor where the points are for the injection system. These modules are quite a bit taller than a set of points.
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The injection triggers are a bit different, they have a cam set-up that opens the breakers for approx 160° of the dizzy rotation, not just a pulse as per these or points.
 
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