Conversion to electronic ignition

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bazzamac

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There has been a lot of discussion about this topic elsewhere.

After reading KB's piece on this topic in the RCCA newsletter and all the posts on aussiefrogs, I bought a pertronix ignitor together with a flamethrower coil for installation in my 1969 A110. So far, I have only installed the coil as the petronix ignitor did not seem to fit my R230 Ducillier distributor on my R8G motor. Can someone advise what Ducillier distributors do they fit that also fit an R8G motor?
 
bazzamac said:
There has been a lot of discussion about this topic elsewhere.

After reading KB's piece on this topic in the RCCA newsletter and all the posts on aussiefrogs, I bought a pertronix ignitor together with a flamethrower coil for installation in my 1969 A110. So far, I have only installed the coil as the petronix ignitor did not seem to fit my R230 Ducillier distributor on my R8G motor. Can someone advise what Ducillier distributors do they fit that also fit an R8G motor?
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Hmm. Mine is a Hot Spark but I suspect they are made in the same factory. They have fitted more than one "standard R8/10 Ducellier" which all seem the same to my simple inspection.

Hot Spark R8 Ducellier 2.JPG
 
After cooking two Pertronix electronic ignition modules on my A 310/4 i went back to points and haven't had any problems since.
 
27of85 said:
After cooking two Pertronix electronic ignition modules on my A 310/4 i went back to points and haven't had any problems since.
Click to expand...

I wonder why?

The Hot Spark folk have a clear coil primary resistance recommendation but nothing else is special that I know of. The only issue I have with the Hot Spark is that the build isn't exactly right and the magnet disc just slightly rubs the static electronic switch unit. It shouldn't!! Never stopped working though. I did buy a new coil from them with the unit.
 
I think the main reason is because it gets too hot in the engine bay, the body of the distributor gets so hot that you can't hang on to it.
 
27of85 said:
I think the main reason is because it gets too hot in the engine bay, the body of the distributor gets so hot that you can't hang on to it.
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Never had a problem with mine.... Many years use including long distance driving... I really don't think it is engine bay temperature.

I imagine the distributor gets to 80-90 degrees of course, similar to the block temperature. Even on 40 degree days it never has missed a beat.
 
Hi Barry,
I did the same to my R8G and I used the same as KB if I remember correctly.
The ignition in my ducillier distributor (same as yours) is- AccuSpark Lotus S2. The Coil is - Pertronix 5905 Flame Thrower 40511 High Performance Coil. It fitted straight in and was quite easy with a little guidance from KB.
I also had my Distributor rebuilt by David Andrews of Vintage Racing Developments in Sydney (Find his page on Face Book). He set it up correctly and also had to make some new bits as it was badly worn, after all it is over 50 years old so you might want to think about doing that as well.
Good luck,
Paul.
 
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For what it's worth, my experience of what is an "in principle" good idea is:

Pertronix Ignitor 2: unreliable; gave up after 2 failures in the Djet. Reverted to points (only as switch for Gammatronix transistorised ignition).

CraneCams: unreliable; gave up after 2 failures in the R8 (Bosch distributor). Reverted to points (only as switch for Gammatronix transistorised ignition).

Hot Spark: fitted to 4CVG & so far reliable.

All of the above are "Hall effect". My prejudice is for a "black box" remotely fitted in the coolest part of engine bay with lots of fins & heat sinks & an infra red optical, not Hall effect, chopper assembly in the distribution. What one wants & what is available for a given distributor vary though. (Hence my backtracking for 2 out of 3 fitments.)

cheers! Peter
 
Paul T said:
Hi Barry,
I did the same to my R8G and I used the same as KB if I remember correctly.
The ignition in my ducillier distributor (same as yours) is- AccuSpark Lotus S2. The Coil is - Pertronix 5905 Flame Thrower 40511 High Performance Coil. It fitted straight in and was quite easy with a little guidance from KB.
I also had my Distributor rebuilt by David Andrews of Vintage Racing Developments in Sydney (Find his page on Face Book). He set it up correctly and also had to make some new bits as it was badly worn, after all it is over 50 years old so you might want to think about doing that as well.
Good luck,
Paul.
Click to expand...

Thanks Paul. So you are saying your Ducillier is an R230? Did you try to fit Petronix ignition and then if it didn't fit, went with AccuSpark? My distributer has already been rebuilt as at one stage it threatened to implode but now all good.
 
bazzamac said:
Thanks Paul. So you are saying your Ducillier is an R230? Did you try to fit Petronix ignition and then if it didn't fit, went with AccuSpark? My distributer has already been rebuilt as at one stage it threatened to implode but now all good.
Click to expand...
Barry,
Having the same engine and Ducillier distributor I would imagine they are the same. They are different to the non Gordini engine because they have a longer shaft so will only fit the Gordini engine. I went straight with the AccuSpark, didn't try any others. Nil issues with it.
Paul.
 
27of85 said:
After cooking two Pertronix electronic ignition modules on my A 310/4 i went back to points and haven't had any problems since.
Click to expand...


Yes, me too, the engine was quite temperamental with the electronic ignition so I swapped back to points and had no more problems.
 
bazzamac said:
Thanks Paul. So you are saying your Ducillier is an R230? Did you try to fit Petronix ignition and then if it didn't fit, went with AccuSpark? My distributer has already been rebuilt as at one stage it threatened to implode but now all good.
Click to expand...


Actually Barry it's a Ducellier distributor.
 
I fitted the Hot Spark model to my Caravelle many years ago - and it was the best upgrade I ever did. Car starts flawlessly every time, and even seems a little indifferent to timing changes - It's absolutely been "set and forget". I did fit a new coil at the same time - but can't remember where I sourced this.
 
Barry, why don't you just fit a 123Ignition electronic distributor an be done with? I have one in my A110 and it's perfect...no issues whatsoever.
 
nauli said:
Barry, why don't you just fit a 123Ignition electronic distributor an be done with? I have one in my A110 and it's perfect...no issues whatsoever.
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Trouble is I had already bought the Pertronix and thought it would be a breeze to instal. But it doesn't fit the R8G distributor R230 as it is not wide enough to accommodate the ignitor. Consequently reluctant to pay heaps more for a different one. I think the 123Ignition only fits the distributor on R16 type motors like yours according to their website. Will be talking to my mechanic on Tuesday to see what he thinks. He is a guru on this sort of stuff. He will be tuning up the Webers on my 1969 A110.
 
bazzamac said:
Trouble is I had already bought the Pertronix and thought it would be a breeze to instal. But it doesn't fit the R8G distributor R230 as it is not wide enough to accommodate the ignitor. Consequently reluctant to pay heaps more for a different one. I think the 123Ignition only fits the distributor on R16 type motors like yours according to their website. Will be talking to my mechanic on Tuesday to see what he thinks. He is a guru on this sort of stuff. He will be tuning up the Webers on my 1969 A110.
Click to expand...

These folk fit 123 units to the distributor you send them. I had one made for my Citroen CX (standard Ducellier) and it was brilliant and totally reliable. For the R8 Ducellier (same type as the CX) the unit is basically a 60 mm (exactly) disc with a hole in the middle for the shaft with its rotating set of 4 magnets. They machine up the distributor housing to accept the disc with its circuitry, add screws etc to fix it in place and make a new shaft with disc/magnets attached. Fitting and timing is dead easy.

https://www.123ignition-conversions.com/ Good to deal with and good English (naturally, as they are Dutch).

Right now, however, I can't get my new 123 for the R8 to work, and two circuit boards have now both failed within seconds. The unit fired immediately so was correctly wired etc but went dead electrically all too quickly. We are sorting it out by remote control at present....

I guess Mr B. that you might go this way only IF you had a spare R8G distributor body to send to them. They return the internals with the modified distributor - I'd not send it without the shaft, to be sure in that area.
 
bazzamac said:
Trouble is I had already bought the Pertronix and thought it would be a breeze to instal. But it doesn't fit the R8G distributor R230 as it is not wide enough to accommodate the ignitor. Consequently reluctant to pay heaps more for a different one. I think the 123Ignition only fits the distributor on R16 type motors like yours according to their website. Will be talking to my mechanic on Tuesday to see what he thinks. He is a guru on this sort of stuff. He will be tuning up the Webers on my 1969 A110.
Click to expand...

I asked earlier what does not fit. The Pertronix units are just a Hall sensor in a housing. If you contact whoever sold it to you and explain the problem they might be able to advise what unit they might have that would fit. Alternatively, you can visit the Pertronix site and see if they have a unit of a lower profile and ask your seller if they can exchange yours for that.
 
Second the above. I’d like to know what “doesn’t fit”
Sometimes the ring that fits over the shaft needs a tiny trim to fit snuggly.

I’m assuming from Barrie’s description then that the plate that the rectangular pickup mounts on, either doesn’t match the holes or is not long enough (wide using BMcA’s term). If you bought it from the Oz distributor (Ted Cross I think his name is), he used to be on here. But I would ring him and discuss. If you bought it from US, then you may have a frustrating few days going back and forth by email. (Unless by some miracle in these covid19 days you could do a video call?).

Edit - another interpretation is that the dizzy body itself is not wide enough for the plate to fit in. I find that strange as the plate and pickup isn’t normally that big.

I’ve got two distributors with accusparks fitted I could photograph but no pertronix anymore.
 
bazzamac said:
Trouble is I had already bought the Pertronix and thought it would be a breeze to instal. But it doesn't fit the R8G distributor R230 as it is not wide enough to accommodate the ignitor. Consequently reluctant to pay heaps more for a different one. I think the 123Ignition only fits the distributor on R16 type motors like yours according to their website. Will be talking to my mechanic on Tuesday to see what he thinks. He is a guru on this sort of stuff. He will be tuning up the Webers on my 1969 A110.
Click to expand...

Barry, my car has a 1400 R5 Alpine engine...I got it from Eric at 123Ignition Germany...he puts the correct shafts on them. A bit of extra $$ now may save you in the long run though...
 
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