C4 Grand Picasso engine Removal and Swap
- Thread starter MrMcGoog123
- Start date
Hi.
Well the photo with the corrugated roof reflected in the polished part of the lobe, fooled me. But I am pleased for your sake that the camshafts are all serviceable. Also I consider the tensioner, sprockets and drive chain will also all be serviceable. Remember the YT videos that jaahn posted, were for taxis that have two to three times the mileage that your vehicle has done, and the tensioners had much more wear on them.
Just a reminder to fully understand the correct timing of the camshafts to the crankshaft.
And as mentioned in the YT videos, to also time the high pressure fuel pump, as it seems that this may have been the root cause of the second failure of the engine in your vehicle.
Fingers crossed that you are making good progress and your calculated gamble will be achieved.
Cheers.
Well the photo with the corrugated roof reflected in the polished part of the lobe, fooled me. But I am pleased for your sake that the camshafts are all serviceable. Also I consider the tensioner, sprockets and drive chain will also all be serviceable. Remember the YT videos that jaahn posted, were for taxis that have two to three times the mileage that your vehicle has done, and the tensioners had much more wear on them.
Just a reminder to fully understand the correct timing of the camshafts to the crankshaft.
And as mentioned in the YT videos, to also time the high pressure fuel pump, as it seems that this may have been the root cause of the second failure of the engine in your vehicle.
Fingers crossed that you are making good progress and your calculated gamble will be achieved.
Cheers.
I have experienced lock up with a manual transmission, as posted above. Not pleasant, but no further damage.
If the engine should suddenly stop with an auto, presumably the transmission oil pump will cease working, and the gearing will be running dry while the car comes to a stop.
If the engine should suddenly stop with an auto, presumably the transmission oil pump will cease working, and the gearing will be running dry while the car comes to a stop.
Hi there - I had a recent episode with a C4 (2 litre petrol) that had weird error codes coming up associated with cam timing and going into limp mode. After exhaustive troubleshooting process i discovered the timing belt was skipped by 2 teeth causing incorrect valve timing. The belt looked fine. This was picked up (the clue) by low compression pressure during cranking. Upon disassembly I found the timing belt tensioner to be in the wrong position but the tension bolt on the tensioner was still tight. I also bought this car as almost a non runner and proceeded to fix. Till this day I have no idea how the belt tensioner got into the wrong position with its tension bolt still being tight. I did not have any broken bits and the engine still ran so slightly different to your scenario. New timing belt kit and water pump and properly pinning the engine fixed the issue and runs like a dream with no error codes. Can you fit a small borescope through injector holes to glance at the cylinders? Judging by the rocker breakage certainly looks like piston hitting valves while cams still rotating. Looks like your valves might be OK - fingers crossed.
The test of chain wear on a motor bike is to lay it flat and cleaned and pull it out as far as you can and then push it back together by hand and see how much % play it has.
Later Oring chains not so easy. Actually on a bigger rear sprocket you can judge the wear by the slack in the chain on the sprocket teeth half way around it.
You will replace the chain tensioner ? And a reminder to know exactly how the timing is setup and do it properly 'by the book'. An example given by Mouka of how someone had made a mistake in the past. A diesel engine will not forgive a couple of teeth out due to its high compression ratio and small clearances.
I am glad those marks we saw as indentations were just an illusion from the roof iron !!
Jaahn
Later Oring chains not so easy. Actually on a bigger rear sprocket you can judge the wear by the slack in the chain on the sprocket teeth half way around it.You will replace the chain tensioner ?
And a reminder to know exactly how the timing is setup and do it properly 'by the book'. An example given by Mouka of how someone had made a mistake in the past. A diesel engine will not forgive a couple of teeth out due to its high compression ratio and small clearances.I am glad those marks we saw as indentations were just an illusion from the roof iron !!
Jaahn
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OK Guys, I must apologise profusely for keeping you all hanging after your expert advise and encouragement.
lets get straight to the point.....
IT RUNS!!.... Drives.... is Registered and back on the road!!..
I guess part of the wait was the shipping of parts from overseas, but a bigger part was me putting it off as I was nervous.... but eventually, the parts arrived, the stars aligned, I grew a pair, and jumped in..
thanks to your great advice and diagrams, I was able to reassemble everything,.. I tried really hard to make sure the fuel pump timing was correct, but even though I spent ages researching this, every model and video I could see where this was discussed had a vastly different high pressure pump than was on my engine, where the pump body was able to be dissembled and timed... not the case with mine, a single straight diameter slot and key-way on the end of the camshaft.... much checking and rechecking before reassembly... so far so good.
New Rocker set, with soaked and cleaned lifters, new inlet manifold gasket set, and new sealer on the camshaft retaining bit... (soooo many bolts! )
New timing belt, tensioner and pulley, idler pulley and water pump. new crank pulley bolt , and the rest all went back together slowly but surely...
I checked and double-checked the timing alignment, and followed as many text and video instructions as i could find, and probably rolled it over at least 10 to 15 times before I gathered a family audience with their phones recording, so that at least if it exploded spectacularly, we could make some funny internet videos!
The length of time it takes to prime this diesel motor was something I was not expecting, and my heart was sinking lower, but the mighty Picasso regained the will to live, and I heard it run for the first time ever!
While the iron was hot and I was riding the heady wave of success, I booked my unregistered vehicle permit for the next morning, to go see the boys in Blue at regency park (for identity inspection/registration)... what better reason for a maiden voyage!, no pressure!
The engine (2.0T) and transmission(6sp) are lovely smooth things, but the front suspension made more noise than Sammy Davis Junior!, Rattling and tapping away!, luckily the inspection was for identification only!.
Its been a couple of weeks so far, and the car hasn't missed a beat!, ive replaced the knackered front upper strut mounts and sway bar drop links, and now it really is like driving a 7 seater lounge room around!, beautiful, quiet, quick and quirky... the epitome of French motoring in my opinion.
I've now been right through this car, it was in dire need of a seats out clean!, that's another job and a half! this car has three separate air conditioners to give it the quad-zone climate control, there is a separate heat exchanger under each of the front seats!, never seen that before..
Once again, thank you all for your words of encouragement, and technical advice.. i am still in two minds whether it would have been easier to pull the engine, i think if i had the use of a hoist, would definitely have been easier.
But, all in all i think i did ok, not one nut, bolt or trim clip left over.. stoked!
lets get straight to the point.....
IT RUNS!!.... Drives.... is Registered and back on the road!!..
I guess part of the wait was the shipping of parts from overseas, but a bigger part was me putting it off as I was nervous.... but eventually, the parts arrived, the stars aligned, I grew a pair, and jumped in..
thanks to your great advice and diagrams, I was able to reassemble everything,.. I tried really hard to make sure the fuel pump timing was correct, but even though I spent ages researching this, every model and video I could see where this was discussed had a vastly different high pressure pump than was on my engine, where the pump body was able to be dissembled and timed... not the case with mine, a single straight diameter slot and key-way on the end of the camshaft.... much checking and rechecking before reassembly... so far so good.
New Rocker set, with soaked and cleaned lifters, new inlet manifold gasket set, and new sealer on the camshaft retaining bit... (soooo many bolts! )
New timing belt, tensioner and pulley, idler pulley and water pump. new crank pulley bolt , and the rest all went back together slowly but surely...
I checked and double-checked the timing alignment, and followed as many text and video instructions as i could find, and probably rolled it over at least 10 to 15 times before I gathered a family audience with their phones recording, so that at least if it exploded spectacularly, we could make some funny internet videos!
The length of time it takes to prime this diesel motor was something I was not expecting, and my heart was sinking lower, but the mighty Picasso regained the will to live, and I heard it run for the first time ever!
While the iron was hot and I was riding the heady wave of success, I booked my unregistered vehicle permit for the next morning, to go see the boys in Blue at regency park (for identity inspection/registration)... what better reason for a maiden voyage!, no pressure!
The engine (2.0T) and transmission(6sp) are lovely smooth things, but the front suspension made more noise than Sammy Davis Junior!, Rattling and tapping away!, luckily the inspection was for identification only!.
Its been a couple of weeks so far, and the car hasn't missed a beat!, ive replaced the knackered front upper strut mounts and sway bar drop links, and now it really is like driving a 7 seater lounge room around!, beautiful, quiet, quick and quirky... the epitome of French motoring in my opinion.
I've now been right through this car, it was in dire need of a seats out clean!, that's another job and a half! this car has three separate air conditioners to give it the quad-zone climate control, there is a separate heat exchanger under each of the front seats!, never seen that before..
Once again, thank you all for your words of encouragement, and technical advice.. i am still in two minds whether it would have been easier to pull the engine, i think if i had the use of a hoist, would definitely have been easier.
But, all in all i think i did ok, not one nut, bolt or trim clip left over.. stoked!
Finally all back together, apart from the cowl below the windscreen, its pretty tight in there...
now with added Cowl and trims.. last pic shows the access problems!.. the front most camshaft is about under that line on the plastic intake manifold...
never mind the back one, behind the injectors... oh my aching back!
never mind the back one, behind the injectors... oh my aching back!
Nervously waiting!.. Regency park opens at 8am... i got there at 7.15am, and was second in line!
triumphant drive back to ... work!, bummer!
triumphant drive back to ... work!, bummer!
Latest project, fix those yucky headlights!
