BX diesel ??

[George 1/8th]

Hi Guys, I was wondering what happened to that BX diesel that suddenly lost it's cam a few weeks ago. It looked like a great little car...did the owner (whose name escapes me for now...sorry) fix it, or drop in another motor or something??
Just wondering...
Cheers...George 1/8th.

 

[Jack Z]

Hey George...

Compliments of the season to you and yours...

AFAIK Roscoes BX TD is sitll sitting at Koolewong on the gorgeous NSW Central Coast awaiting its final fate.....

 

[George 1/8th]

Hey George...

Compliments of the season to you and yours...

AFAIK Roscoes BX TD is sitll sitting at Koolewong on the gorgeous NSW Central Coast awaiting its final fate.....

Hi Jack, it would be worth saving , wouldn't it?
Would the motor be economical to rebuild, or would it be a better idea to drop in another from another car? I guess there are all kinds of possibilities.
It's just a shame to think of these great cars not being used , getting trashed etc.
There's possibly a car with the right motor in good condition somewhere with a wrecked body that could be retrieved and with some time and effort...a revived car.
I hope Roscoe gets an opportunity to get his nice little BX back up and running.
Cheers...George.

 

[pugrambo]

grab a 405TD wreck from the auctions and do a transplant

no one would be any the wiser and you gain a few CC's

either that or maybe a 306TD could be used as a transplant car

 

[Alan S]

I'm pretty sure that the last I heard was he was putting it in mothballs until he had the time (and inclination) to pull it down and take a gander around inside to see just how bad it was damaged.
With his UK connections, he should be able to get it up & running fairly reasonably and there was a bit too much speculation about what "might" be wrong that made it an impossible task for him to put a price on it which also made it too big a gamble for anyone to buy also not knowing just how far things had to go.
Due to it's rareity and the fact that BXs seem to have hit the rock bottoms depreciationwise, the price is never going to drop much below what it is now and with a company car that I believe he now has, there's no rush.

Alan S

 

[smiffy1071]

grab a 405TD wreck from the auctions and do a transplant

no one would be any the wiser and you gain a few CC's

either that or maybe a 306TD could be used as a transplant car

Sorry dude, I gotta REALLY throw a spanner in the works there! If the 1.7TD threw a cam, and you then put a motor complete from a 205,306,309, or 405, what is going to drive the hydraulics????????? It takes its drive from the end of the camshaft!! It is true the engines are VERY similar, but they are most definately NOT the same!! john s

 

[Jack Z]

Would it be worth saving Geroge....??

As much as I love my BX's and the emotive and subjectvie me says yes... I would have to say no....

Look at how many great BX's have changed hands recently at between $1k and $3k ok.. they're not diesel... but even so.. assuming it would cost AT LEAST $2,5k to get this going again.... and I think it would be closer to $4k personally... what would the car be worth at the end of it.. as a private import... ?? Keep in mind what you can buy a Pug 405 Turbo Diesel as a comparison... !


Having said that Roscoes car is worth saving for the body and interior alone.. as it is truly superb... however gvien what Dogboy paid for a '92 TZi with 100k on the clock... even then you have to wonder...!

I'd have to take Alan and Shanes position on this one... if you had the time, space, facilities, inclination etc etc to do it yourself then definitely save it... even consider putting a TZI motor / gearbox in as a swap because the body / interior is worth it.. or rebuild the motor at cost of parts... BUT to pay someone to do it... you'd be better off selling it as it is for parts... I'd reckon

 

[pugrambo]

Would it be worth saving Geroge....??

As much as I love my BX's and the emotive and subjectvie me says yes... I would have to say no....

Look at how many great BX's have changed hands recently at between $1k and $3k ok.. they're not diesel... but even so.. assuming it would cost AT LEAST $2,5k to get this going again.... and I think it would be closer to $4k personally... what would the car be worth at the end of it.. as a private import... ?? Keep in mind what you can buy a Pug 405 Turbo Diesel as a comparison... !


Having said that Roscoes car is worth saving for the body and interior alone.. as it is truly superb... however gvien what Dogboy paid for a '92 TZi with 100k on the clock... even then you have to wonder...!

I'd have to take Alan and Shanes position on this one... if you had the time, space, facilities, inclination etc etc to do it yourself then definitely save it... even consider putting a TZI motor / gearbox in as a swap because the body / interior is worth it.. or rebuild the motor at cost of parts... BUT to pay someone to do it... you'd be better off selling it as it is for parts... I'd reckon

a good 405TD will cost you at least twice the $4K you mention

i know my old mans car bieng one of the last as a jan/feb 96 model with 120K on it would be worth at least $11-15K if someone were to buy it

as for the pump i didn't realise that they were driven off the cam so the next question would be is can something be adapted like another pump and mount it elsewhere

as for what the car would be worth ,well i think if you got the said car and got it going then kept it for the long term yes it would be worth it

what else could you buy for say even $4K that will return you 40+mpg and give you years of trouble free service

 

[DoubleChevron]

a good 405TD will cost you at least twice the $4K you mention

i know my old mans car bieng one of the last as a jan/feb 96 model with 120K on it would be worth at least $11-15K if someone were to buy it

as for the pump i didn't realise that they were driven off the cam so the next question would be is can something be adapted like another pump and mount it elsewhere

as for what the car would be worth ,well i think if you got the said car and got it going then kept it for the long term yes it would be worth it

what else could you buy for say even $4K that will return you 40+mpg and give you years of trouble free service

The pump isn't driven off the cam ... Could you imagine the frightful load on that fragile cambelt if the air-con or hydraulic pump was running from it.

I haven't looked under the bonnet of a poogoe, but I'm sure you will find you only need to use the original crank pulley (gee's I've gone blank, but I think there is just an extra pulley on the back of the harmonic balancer). The Xantia which is still fresh in my memory just runs the pump off of the main serpentine/fan belt.

Still I feel this is no real issue, there would be a simple work around.

seeya,
Shane L.

seeya,
Shane L.

 

[Jack Z]

I take your point PugRambo... but I think $9 - $10 seems to be the asking price for 94/96 405 SRDT ... see below...

I guess gien that Roscoes BX is a '91 vintage and I have no idea how many klms it has travelled... my point was that if he can get it back on the road himself and / or for under $4k and he plans to keep it then it's worth while.. if however he has to pay full tilt for someone else to do it... and it gets over $4k then I don't think (personally) it would be worth it...

And I say that knowing the car.. and knowing what great overall condtion it is in and how well maintained it was prior to the misshap.

By the way a 405 D70 SRDT motor complete, with 135k (and books) was avialble for $2,750.00 at a Pug Wrecker in Qld last time I was chasing some BX stuff... still looking at close to $4k by the time it was transplanted assuming would fit of course...!

Vehicle 1994 PEUGEOT 405 D70 SRDT
Price $9,990
Kilometres 185,000
Body 4 door Sedan
Colour Gunmetal Grey
Interior Colour Black Leather
Transmission 4 speed Automatic
Engine 4 cylinder Diesel Turbo 1.9L (1905cc)
Reg Expiry MAY-2005
Road Worthy Certificate Yes

Vehicle 1996 PEUGEOT 405 D70 SRDT
Price $10,950 *
Kilometres 209,561
Body 4 door Sedan
Colour white
Transmission 5 speed Manual
Drive type Front
Engine 4 cylinder Diesel Turbo 1.9L (1905cc)

PEUGEOT 405 SRDT `96 turbo diesel, 5spd man s/wagon, 10 CD, EC, Very Economical, reg 7/05, SIU611, RWC $11,000 ono 5251 1677

 

[pugrambo]

I take your point PugRambo... but I think $9 - $10 seems to be the asking price for 94/96 405 SRDT ... see below...




Vehicle 1996 PEUGEOT 405 D70 SRDT
Price $10,950 *
Kilometres 209,561
Body 4 door Sedan
Colour white
Transmission 5 speed Manual
Drive type Front
Engine 4 cylinder Diesel Turbo 1.9L (1905cc)

and what would you pay for a one owner 120k 96 model 405 TD in excellent condition ?

i think the BX in question had only something like around 130-160k on it anyway

i still think if someone was after a car for the long term it is well worth putting on the road

 

[Jack Z]

I guess that's one of those that would sell with little regard for the market...

It would sell at much higher than "average market" because it would be the next best thing to a new one at $50k...!

At even high teens it would be a wonderful car that provided years of trouble free, economical, and rewarding motoring....if the current owner ever decided to sell of course... and his son didn't snap it up first that is...

 

[DoubleChevron]

All this talk about funny little deisels...

if your going to own an orphan you might as well find yourself a *real* car :joker: :joker: A CX2500 DTR turbo I or II. There is several in the country I have heard of. You'll just have to pry 'em away from there owners, though at those poogoe prices being asked above, that shouldn't be to difficult :banana: :banana: :banana: :roflmao:

seeya,
Shane L.

 

[STALLED]

Just a quick question here,

Are TD cars more expensive to insure because of the "turbo"?

Id really like a diesel car its not practical as the insurance would be astrinomical?

Cyas Stalled

 

[smiffy1071]

The pump isn't driven off the cam ... Could you imagine the frightful load on that fragile cambelt if the air-con or hydraulic pump was running from it.

Shane, I will send you a picture of the 1.7TD we are currently working on in the next few days. The pump fixes to a casting on the gearbox bell housing, and is driven by a v-belt from a pulley on the end of the camshaft.

As for the Xantia, I thought they had an electric pump, like the C5...or was that just the very late model Xantias? john s

 

[DoubleChevron]

The pump isn't driven off the cam ... Could you imagine the frightful load on that fragile cambelt if the air-con or hydraulic pump was running from it.

Shane, I will send you a picture of the 1.7TD we are currently working on in the next few days. The pump fixes to a casting on the gearbox bell housing, and is driven by a v-belt from a pulley on the end of the camshaft.

As for the Xantia, I thought they had an electric pump, like the C5...or was that just the very late model Xantias? john s

I think all Xantias have a mechanical pump (but hey were talking Citroen, I could be wrong). The was the early Xantias with normal BX/CX/DS/etc pumps and later one with the 6&2 pump. That is 6pistons are dedicated to the power steering and have a simple releif valve built in (that's why the steering can be heard hissing), the other 2cylinders are dedicated to the brakes and suspension. If you lower a Xantia to the ground and release it's hydraulic pressure, you better go make a coffee, and watch some TV while you wait for those two tiny pistons to build up the pressure again :roflmao: :roflmao:

seeya,
Shane L.

 

[smiffy1071]

I take it you found this out from bitter experience :roflmao: I like the coffee idea, but I hope your local coles supermarket has alta rica coffee, coz I don't drink anything else! Oh, and some coon cheese, with crackers? be round in a minute or several!!!! :joker: john s

 

[ozziediver]

Hi Folks
Just getting around to reading some Cit/Pug forums after a very busy holiday season spent finishing off my house renovations .
Anyway, now I have some time to dig into my TZD and find out what else is broke/not broke on it. Basics I know as of now are:
Cam is busted in 2 places
Cam belt tensioner is broke - cause of above
Valves - haven't yanked head off yet, but fully expect a number of them to be bent since diesels have almost no piston/valve clearance
Pistons - probably OK as valves are weaker and engine was just ticking over when it went
Con rods - ditto

Next steps - pull off head, check out short block as much as possible without stripping it, and start trying to find a replacement complete head and camshaft to drop back on. I am going to try some contacts in NZ first as they brought the TZD into there, if no luck in NZ, will try the UK. I don't intend to spend more than a few hundred $$ on it - will do the work myself. If it looks like the cost is getting too high, I'll check out a petrol engine swap from a BX wreck - but would like to keep it as a diesel. Failing all that, it will become a parts donor for my 16V....

Lastly, Shane...the hydraulic pump is definitely driven off the back end of the cam via a V pulley bolted onto it and an extremely tight belt! So a Pug engine may work, but would need all the mounting brackets checked to see it the accessories would fit, plus the cam and rocker cover would likely need to be modified...not an easy job. Pity I'm not back in the UK where I see on the AndySpares forum they are giving TZDs away...

Got my new Pug 307 Touring for a work car now, so pressure is off to get a second set of wheels and I have 11 more months before the rego runs out on the BX...

 

[smiffy1071]

I have had an idea, regarding the drive to the hydraulic pump.
The earlier XUD engine used in visa, 205, 309, and 405, uses a belt driven vacuum pump. (looks exactly the same set up as the hydraulic pump). Later engines have the vacuum pump bolted directly to the head.
Now, I can't remember if any of those earlier earlier engines, especially the peugeot ones, were turbo charged.
If they were, then yes, an early peugeot turbo engine WITH REMOTE VACUUM PUMP will be ok. I hope this gives you some encouragement!!!
john s
Of course, if all else fails, just slap a non-turbo unit in! (much more common)

 

[smiffy1071]

Right then, I can finally say that yes a peugeot 405 turbo diesel, BEFORE 1991, did use a belt driven vacuum pump, and therefore will fit into a BX turbo-d. We are doing just that at the moment. john s