505 GTI versus STI discussion

L

luthier

Well-known member
1000+ Posts
Fellow Frogger
Joined
Oct 31, 2004
Messages
1,268
Location
Northern NSW
I've been having a look at the specs.
STI = 115hp
Displacement 1995cc
K-jetronic

GTI = 130hp
Displacement 2165cc
L-jetronic

So that's common knowledge but I've been hearing a few things about the goodness of the STI.
For instance that installing the STI cam in a GTI engine makes it go much better.
And that a well tuned STI will outshine a GTI. This I now doubt but I'm willing to learn.
Then there's the complicated STI tuneup procedure which I would love to discuss with anyone willing to pass on any knowledge there. I have the full workshop manual which is pretty clear on how it's done though.
The main tools required are a vacuum gauge and a pressure gauge.
This is of course in honour of my newly acquired STI , the very beautiful and well loved Cecil .

Driving through the regenerating bush on the New England tablelands between Armidale and Ebor last Friday 10th:
ceciltablelands2.jpg
 
Don't forget an Allen key for the air/fuel ratio. It isn't tricky. Close the bypass. Use the key. You are aiming for just idling, then use the bypass to set the idle speed.. You can test if you have an exhaust meter, as it is easier.
 
luthier said:
I've been having a look at the specs.
STI = 115hp
Displacement 1995cc
K-jetronic

GTI = 130hp
Displacement 2165cc
L-jetronic

STi and GTi both have the same 2165cc displacement in Australia. We didn't get the 1995cc version here, except in Renault Fuego. The main differences between Sti and GTi are injection system (part mechancial, part electronic on STi, full electronic on GTi), and the cam.

Just to confuse Pug owners, the last of the STis had the GTi engine, but lower trim spec for the rest of the car. I know, I owned one.

Robin
Click to expand...
 
Oops, beaten to it by the previous poster.

I believe all Australian delivered STIs were 2165cc also. The only 2 litre versions with a Douvrin motor were a few private imports. Whilst most STIs were Bosch K injection there were a few transitional 505 STIs with full electronic injection, I have one of these.
 
I'll hear the wails from here when you have to work on the distributor! The insulation on the engine bulkhead is probably cactus now.

They are a wonderful car though, and built like a tank.
 
Robin Hoffmann said:
luthier said:
The main differences between Sti and GTi are injection system (part mechancial, part electronic on STi, full electronic on GTi), and the cam.
Click to expand...

And the diff ratio? And the fact the GTi is post 6/1986, thus had to run on 91 unleaded and has a cat. And the dreaded 390mm rims on the STi, rather than 15" on the GTi.
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
Oh yes. Check the size of those alloy rims. Tyres for them are a nightmare. Metric didn't catch on. A lot of people swapped them for a set of inch sized steelies.
 
The last of the STis, the ones with EFI had 14 inch wheels, same as 505GTI wagon.
 
Dear god I miss my STI.

But heck the 390mm wheels did suuuuuuuck.

It ended up with 14" dunlops from a 504 and I never really could get over it.

Jelly of your 505.
 
This has 15" wheels and is running 195/65/15 tyres. I am now going to wear these tyres out asap and then fit 205/60/15 which will lower the gearing , accelerate harder and stick like shit to a blanket round corners. I can't imagine how it would take off with 13" wheels.
So it's a 2.2 after all, that's good to know..
Seasink thanks yes I kinda get that tip but will revisit what you said at the point of doing.

Yesterday I found the vacuum advance was blocked so now with a new unblocked tube this is going pretty well. I'm waiting to see if there's an improvement when I fit a new fuel filter. It's improving every day with a bit more encouragement.[Thrashing].
 
Gearing will be the same, 195 60 will lower it. 5% aspect ratio change equals 10mm in width.
 
All the STis I had were thirsty slugs and had a power band between 3500 and 5000. I did drive a good one once though. Few and far between I think. GTis weren't that much better in standard form but could be tweeked to go pretty well. Still had a lower usable rev limit of 3500 though. If you can keep them above 3500 they will climb any hill in 5th, otherwise you have to drop back through the gears.
 
Mine is the 3 speed auto. Since unblocking the vacuum advance it pulls much better. It has only 180,000K's on the clock. It has a GPS speedo sitting over the clock so you know your real speed. On the trip home I averaged 8K's per litre and I'm hoping that will be a bit better now. I'd be content with 10 which is what my GTI auto executive used to get. Depends on the cruising speed of course. I don't see 110K's being too economical at over 4K revs. I remember always hankering for an extra gear in the GTI. Maybe I should turn it into a manual but I rather enjoy the laziness of the auto.
 
Being used to the 5 speed manual, I drove to Canberra once in an auto 505. I couldn't believe how much the performance had dropped. The 5 speed had a longevity problem and getting parts is now difficult.
 
Nice STi , where did you find that? Still have the desire for a 505 but I'm guessing I'll never get one. Still looking for a flat and have second child incoming.... Old cars on the backburner.

In relation to your tyres, I vaguely remember someone here saying 205 tyres would rub on the front struts. Something to check.

Also, I like the auto too. Just seems to suit the car. Enjoy it!
 
Robin Hoffmann said:
luthier said:
I've been having a look at the specs.
STI = 115hp
Displacement 1995cc
K-jetronic

GTI = 130hp
Displacement 2165cc
L-jetronic

STi and GTi both have the same 2165cc displacement in Australia. We didn't get the 1995cc version here, except in Renault Fuego. The main differences between Sti and GTi are injection system (part mechancial, part electronic on STi, full electronic on GTi), and the cam.

Just to confuse Pug owners, the last of the STis had the GTi engine, but lower trim spec for the rest of the car. I know, I owned one.

Robin
Click to expand...

No electronics in STi K jet. Later K Jets had some electronics. GTi engine with aftermarket ECU is by far the best way to go
Click to expand...
 
had 205 tyres on our old SRDT auto, no problems and usually cheaper than other sizes at least for Michelins.
 
luthier said:
This has 15" wheels and is running 195/65/15 tyres. I am now going to wear these tyres out asap and then fit 205/60/15 which will lower the gearing , accelerate harder and stick like shit to a blanket round corners. I can't imagine how it would take off with 13" wheels.
So it's a 2.2 after all, that's good to know..
Seasink thanks yes I kinda get that tip but will revisit what you said at the point of doing.

Yesterday I found the vacuum advance was blocked so now with a new unblocked tube this is going pretty well. I'm waiting to see if there's an improvement when I fit a new fuel filter. It's improving every day with a bit more encouragement.[Thrashing].
Click to expand...

Before choosing a tyre size,check out tyres available in that size. 205/60 is a desert but 195/60 gives you the Bridgestone RE003 & 205/55 gives you the RE003 & the Dunlop FM800. Both are good tyres with the RE003 being crisper in response.

As for rubbing, it depends a bit on diameter & not just width perhaps. Much depends on just where the touch point is.

On comparing tyre dimensions, try:
https://tiresize.com/comparison/

Mind you, 195/65-15 gives you access to a splendid tyre: the Continental Premium Contact 5. There might not really be much point in changing the size for marginal circumference changes & lower gearing given such a good option in 195/65.

cheers! Peter
 
4cvg said:
Before choosing a tyre size,check out tyres available in that size. 205/60 is a desert but 195/60 gives you the Bridgestone RE003 & 205/55 gives you the RE003 & the Dunlop FM800. Both are good tyres with the RE003 being crisper in response.

As for rubbing, it depends a bit on diameter & not just width perhaps. Much depends on just where the touch point is.

On comparing tyre dimensions, try:
https://tiresize.com/comparison/

Mind you, 195/65-15 gives you access to a splendid tyre: the Continental Premium Contact 5. There might not really be much point in changing the size for marginal circumference changes & lower gearing given such a good option in 195/65.

cheers! Peter
Click to expand...

Gearing won't change, go down a bit due to 60 profile but up because of the 205 size.
 
lowpugV2 said:
Nice STi , where did you find that? Still have the desire for a 505 but I'm guessing I'll never get one. Still looking for a flat and have second child incoming.... Old cars on the backburner.

In relation to your tyres, I vaguely remember someone here saying 205 tyres would rub on the front struts. Something to check.

Also, I like the auto too. Just seems to suit the car. Enjoy it!
Click to expand...
My old mate DC sold this to me, thanks so much Dean. I knew about it for awhile and as you know these cars get advertised for months at stupidly low prices until sellers give up and decide to keep their pride and joy.
I've been talking to Dean for awhile now and actually sourced this car for someone else but it became obvious that the car needed a little more knowledge from the owner for a happy ownership so I decided it was for myself. It's really not worth the agro these days if you have to pay someone to sort every little thing on a car, well in truth all cars are the same as all need understanding and tlc.
But more modern ones require less immediate stuff and they are more suitable for anyone with less knowledge or willingness to work on the method of transport.
Hence I am the proud owner and will attempt to do this beauty justice by getting it running at optimum and enjoying the hell out of cruising about in him.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top