2006 Citroen C4 Auto | AL4 slipping in 1st gear eventually engages with a clunk, when warm

Check the bolts on the valve block are not loose.
It's common to need to replace only the main pressure modulation valve #5. The selection electrovalves rarely fail.
A poor 2nd gear shift can be a symptom of a worn end cover bush according to Sonnax, who offer an upgraded bush.
Don't move the screw-in adjusters as they were set at the factory. If you must move them, measure the depth first so you can reset them to the original position.

AL4_Bolts.JPG

AL4_ElectroValves.JPG
 
So I just replaced the two main solenoids and put everything back together. I was very careful to line up the manual valve and the spring.

However, when testing it, it was struggling to find Drive. It would either blink N or R, but when I did get it into Drive, the STOP started flashing.

Any ideas on what may have gone wrong? I checked that the two solenoids I replaced were black top ones, ie like for like.

Does it maybe need time for oil to flow through the valve body again, and the issue will go away?

Please help! Thanks so much!
 
Jason_C said:
So I just replaced the two main solenoids and put everything back together. I was very careful to line up the manual valve and the spring.

However, when testing it, it was struggling to find Drive. It would either blink N or R, but when I did get it into Drive, the STOP started flashing.

Any ideas on what may have gone wrong? I checked that the two solenoids I replaced were black top ones, ie like for like.

Does it maybe need time for oil to flow through the valve body again, and the issue will go away?

Please help! Thanks so much!
Click to expand...
If the gear indicator blinks, the multi-function switch on top of the gearbox is not aligned.
How did you set up the roller blade? The roller blade is the leaf spring on the valve body that engages into the detentes in the selector quadrant. The roller blade is probably not set correctly. That could cause both of your symptoms.
I have a blurb over on the C3 owners site on how to change the electrovalves. Link HERE.
I have figured out a way to replicate the alignment tool and set the roller blade in the correct position.
Theoretically resetting the roller blade should set the switch back in position...but it may not. You may have to re-align the switch after setting up the roller blade. There are no locating dowels in the valve body, so it's unlikely it went back in the gear casing in exactly the same position that it came out. So some aligning may be required. The post also shows you how to set up the multi-function switch.
 
I just reinstalled the roller spring and checked the gear indicator. Seemed fine so I reassembled the car.

Then the antipolution fault and abs warning came on! I checked the spark plugs and the warning went away. Also after driving, the abs warning went away.

HOWEVER, the gearbox warning came up a coupe of times when driving and flashed the snow and sport icons for very brief moments and went away.

The car cannot seem to use the Manual up/down but other gears are fine. Also, I feel like the transmission is either slipping or in the wrong gear when the car was warmed up because it was revving too hard and not going very fast after coming to a stop. My OBD2 says coolant temp fluctuates from 90 to 98. Is this normal, or is somehow the ATF overheating and causing the transmission not to work properly!

Any advice is greatly appreciated as I really need this problem fixed. The car cannot be driven like this!

Thanks everyone
 
It might also be worth mentioning that the temp gauge is faulty and reads about 20 degrees lower than the obd2 reader. Is this somehow affecting the transmission?
 
Jason_C said:
I just reinstalled the roller spring and checked the gear indicator. Seemed fine so I reassembled the car.

Then the antipolution fault and abs warning came on! I checked the spark plugs and the warning went away. Also after driving, the abs warning went away.

HOWEVER, the gearbox warning came up a coupe of times when driving and flashed the snow and sport icons for very brief moments and went away.

The car cannot seem to use the Manual up/down but other gears are fine. Also, I feel like the transmission is either slipping or in the wrong gear when the car was warmed up because it was revving too hard and not going very fast after coming to a stop. My OBD2 says coolant temp fluctuates from 90 to 98. Is this normal, or is somehow the ATF overheating and causing the transmission not to work properly!

Any advice is greatly appreciated as I really need this problem fixed. The car cannot be driven like this!

Thanks everyone
Click to expand...
Snow and sport icons flashing means the oil counter needs to be reset. This needs to be done at every fluid change which in PSA terms is never as these boxes are sealed for life🤪

Only PP2000 or Delphi can reset the counter. Not sure any other scanners can but AL4 will complain if counter not reset and expects fluid to be changed
 
Thanks. I might be confused but it sounds like you're suggesting resetting the oil counter will fix the transmission shifting issue. I'm not sure that sounds correct.

I feel like it's a heat issue that's affecting the gearbox. Maybe a coolant thermostat or pressure sensor? Changing the heat exchanger seems like a costly option to try so I don't want to go down that path yet.
 
newton63 said:
Hi, I helped Pug88 with this issue, both of us being new to older European auto transmissions we went through what we thought was a systematic process - noting that the first gearbox had a mechanic change the two main electro valves and check the box, then giving us a diagnosis of a worn internal oil pump (gearbox @ 118k kms), which sent us down the route of changing out the box with a box from a car we had as a spare with relatively unknow history. Also worth noting we're in Australia, NSW.

Sequence of events:
1. Original gearbox goes into limp mode. (let's call this C1 gearbox)
2. Mechanic changes "main pressure regulation valve" and "convertor pressure valve"
3. Mechanic makes the call that after changing valves that the internal oil pump is badly worn.
4. We have a spare car with 200k kms on the clock. (Citroen C4 2007, identical car, even the same color)
5. Remove gearbox and install it into our car ((let's call this C2 gearbox)
6. C2 gearbox now in car and has an issue changing from 2nd to 1st.
7. Symptoms lead us to believe is may be an issue with valves 3&4.
8. Remove valves from C1 Valves and install into C2 box.
Note: at this stage we have not removed the valve body, only harvested valves 3&4 from C1
9. Carry out ATF oil changes, 4 off oil drains and fills to get the ATF as clean as possible. C2 is running better but still has the initial fault of hesitating from 2nd to 1st.
10. Add Lucas Oil Transmission Fix (24 oz) - C2 runs better but the issue is still there.
** Pug88 has purchased the Lexia3 and we've carried out as much checking as possible.
** we also swapped the gearbox computer out from the donor car to see if that was an issue - no change.
11. At this stage we concede that the box has a mechanical issue and is most likely a worn transmission brake band.

Then comes the lightbulb moment, I decided to pull out the valve body from C1, I had always had a question mark as to why would a box with only 118k kms would have a worn pump? I was also going to split the box, pulling out the valve body I find that the two electro-valves the mechanic has changed are "loose", and by loose I mean finger tight. It appears he has installed the two valves, probably been called away or distracted, installed the valve body, run the car, tested with his analyzer and diagnosed low oil pressure. As the gearbox was run with the valves loose, the oil pressure bypassed the valves and blew out the seals / seal covers.

This is the point where we head down a rabbit hole of changing out and re-changing out gearboxes. After discussion with the mechanic, and I'll say he was very apologetic and possessional about it, I asked for 2 new valves, and the money back from the original service, he was compliant and we left on good terms. So I now have two new electro-valves and enough money to by $150 worth of Penrite FS ATF.

Remember at this point we still have gearbox C2 in the car, C1 sitting on the ground with a valve body with two faulty/incorrectly installed valves.

12. Install new electro-valves to valve body after giving it a clean and once over.
13. Install gearbox C1 (original box).
14. Carry out ATF fluid changes.

And a hint, Removing the front subframe does make changing the box out easier, I did two changes with the sub frame in and 1 with it out.

Car has now been running for over 800kms with no issues, gearbox changes are smooth, and the box is behaving like you'd expect a 2006 4 speed auto to behave.

It's a pity we were between a rock and hard place (we'd only had the car for 6 weeks) when we first got the diagnosis of a worn oil pump post valve changes, at that stage we couldn't find a 2nd hand box with warranty - wreckers hotline had one is SA, but it would have been a $1800 outlay, a rebuild was quoted at $5k. So the only option for us was to take a chance on the donor box C2.

So in summary, a mechanics (independent French car specialist) mistake lead us to remove C2 gearbox twice, C1 gearbox twice (once because I dropped a convertor bolt behind the flywheel on install), and install a box 3 times. We certainly know how to change a C4 AL4 auto gearbox now. Thanks for all the input from the froggies.

This closes the chapter (hopefully) on our gearbox issues!
Click to expand...

Hi, I'm having a similar issue to the OP on a 2007 C4 Auto with AL4 DPO. After about 30 minutes of driving, once the gearbox is warmed up, the following happens, and is worst in stop-start driving. The car has only done 120km and the issue started about 500km ago. I have only owned the car for about 5000km of driving so am not sure about the history of it.

pug88 said:
Hi all,

I recently picked up a 2006 Citroen C4 Auto, the car drives fine until after some period of driving (say 30-45 minutes) the car will begin to lose the ability to "creep" forward from a stationary position, i.e. If the car is stopped on a flat road, letting go of the foot brake will result in no forward motion (creep forward). If I give it some throttle, the RPM will rise (higher than usually required) and it will eventually bite/bump/clunk and drive off. If I repeat this process multiple times it will eventually become nearly impossible to get the car moving in 1st (will needs lots of RPM to get the bite), the only way to get the car moving is going to "Manual" mode and putting the car into 2nd gear.

Does anyone know what my next steps are to troubleshoot this.

Regards,
J.
Click to expand...

Is there a permanent solution to this or do I have to get a new gearbox? I don't have the funds for a new gearbox so would like to try and fix myself. I did a single change of Penrite ATF FS which seemed to help a bit and am going to do another change once I figure out what the next step is. The old oil came out grey/black so I assume it was never changed. The oil did not have any particles in it and did not smell burnt. I've looked through the forum a lot and was able to find different issues to the current one I am having.

Also, a massive thank you to the forum regulars that publically posted and documented their experiences. I have learnt a lot over the past few weeks, scratching my head to find out what is wrong with my AL4 DPO.

Threads I have already read,

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Cheers,
Nub
 
Welcome aboard...

You'll need the error codes from the transmission ecu to know were to start and see why the car decides to go into limp mode.
It could be the 2 main solenoids which cause most of the issues but as I have been through this a number of years ago and now assisting a local with similar issues without fault codes and live data its a guessing game.

Your best option if you don't have regular access to Peugeot PP2000 would be to find a wrecker with a damaged Peugeot/Citroen with an AL4 that was known to be drivable and grab just the valve body or there may be someone here in Sydney that has a good known VB.

Swap and drive and see if similar symptoms still occur. If same issues and same fault codes, possible internal damage has already occurred to the gearbox and a swap is your best option.

Check external wiring is not damaged by wearing or rodents.
Check transmission ecu for corrosion on the pins
Check damage to gearbox sensor wiring and check your oil level is correct.

Report back with error codes
 
Thanks dimistyle. All I have is an OBD2, which does not show gearbox temp or gearbox oil pressure. Oops I put down the wrong location when I signed up as I used to be in Sydney!

I'm considering buying the EMV and EMLU for $65 on ebay and swapping out along with taking the valve body apart for a good clean... However, I don't have the roller blade tool required to finish the job.

General question if anybody knows, what threads does the tool have on it? I could buy a bolt to replicate the tool.

Just need the roller blade tool and a small torque wrench and should be good to put the valve body back together after taking apart from what I gather.
 
A large flat washer with 6mm hole works fine. Its used on the only torx screw in the middle of the roller blade torque down then torque the screw on the RHS holding the roller blade. Undo washer and put screw back in.

Be very careful cleaning the VB if you intend on dismantling. Don't install the valves incorrectly and not sure what you intend to do with the solenoids, replace or reinstall?

Need a scanner that can read the transmission ecu otherwise your wasting your time

Good luck
 
c4nub said:
Thanks dimistyle. All I have is an OBD2, which does not show gearbox temp or gearbox oil pressure. Oops I put down the wrong location when I signed up as I used to be in Sydney!

I'm considering buying the EMV and EMLU for $65 on ebay and swapping out along with taking the valve body apart for a good clean... However, I don't have the roller blade tool required to finish the job.

General question if anybody knows, what threads does the tool have on it? I could buy a bolt to replicate the tool.

Just need the roller blade tool and a small torque wrench and should be good to put the valve body back together after taking apart from what I gather.
Click to expand...
You don't need the tool. Set trans into park, that;s the furthest the shift linkage will ever go.
Set the roller blade to engage into the appropriate recess of the shift arm and tighten.
Check that the arm has not been moved [which happens when the blade is compressed during the tightening of the screw]
Pull the blade clear and move the linkage back and forth, then return to park position.
Ease the blade back into position and check that it fits correctly into the link without moving the arm.
And then the test to see if you got it right
Move the gear stick to a different position and note that the roller is sitting correctly in the appropriate notch. Simples. and Cheers.
 
shanadoo said:
You don't need the tool. Set trans into park, that;s the furthest the shift linkage will ever go.
Set the roller blade to engage into the appropriate recess of the shift arm and tighten.
Check that the arm has not been moved [which happens when the blade is compressed during the tightening of the screw]
Pull the blade clear and move the linkage back and forth, then return to park position.
Ease the blade back into position and check that it fits correctly into the link without moving the arm.
And then the test to see if you got it right
Move the gear stick to a different position and note that the roller is sitting correctly in the appropriate notch. Simples. and Cheers.
Click to expand...
Also I forgot to mention to disconnect the shift cable when adjusting the blade set, whatever method you use. The cable should reconnect without readjusting if it was correct before. And dont forget to check the neutral switch setting. Cheers again.
 
c4nub said:
General question if anybody knows, what threads does the tool have on it? I could buy a bolt to replicate the tool.

Just need the roller blade tool and a small torque wrench and should be good to put the valve body back together after taking apart from what I gather.
Click to expand...

Copy and paste the above URL (from my previous post) into your search bar. The site wont allow linking via hypertext.

( Moderator: Fixed. Use this link: Tutorial )

I have a complete guide to installing the main pressure and TC lock up electro valves, aligning the roller blade and multifunction switch.
The tutorial is for the C3 (2003-2010) but 90% would still be applicable to the C4.
9 times out of 10 the multifunction switch and selector cable will need to be re-aligned if the valve body is removed. There are no alignment pins in the valve body so it's unlikely to go back in exactly the same position (although you could get lucky).
The torque wrench needs to be able to torque screws to 7.5 and 9 newton meters, that's not a lot! The specification is 0.75 and 0.9 m.daN (decanewton metres)!! No wonder the Brits wanted out of the EU. LOL!
The roller blade must be aligned in the "2nd gear" position of the selector quadrant.
As Dimistyle says the alignment tool can be replicated with an over sized washer, BUT it's not as simple as that!
If your electro valves have white electrical connectors, the gearbox ECU will need to be re-programmed! Although, that's probably unlikely on a C4 given that (allegedly) the last gearboxes with the "white" electro valves were built in 2003.
 
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Hi
I have done some valve changes in past years and never used "the tool" or even a washer. I always put the gear selector in PARK and did not move it till the job was finished. I always used a scriber to mark the original spring blade position as a check, but basically when refitting just allowed the roller to sit back into the detent fully while carefully replacing the blade while pressing it flat, using the normal screw just lightly nipped up. Then check the scribed marks and tighten a bit more. Then fully tighten in the overall tensioning of all the valve body screws and recheck marks. I never had to change it or had any problems with the selector.
The only time I had that was when the job had been done by the owner previously and we adjusted the selector position externally a smidgen to get it correct.
I do not recommend the use of 2nd gear position. And I do not believe the valve body will be able to move by a significant amount with the multiple screws in neat holes holding it. It is fair to say that some "mechanical feel" might be required to do it well but it not rocket science !! My opinion ! Read Shanadoo's post above.
Jaahn
PS I should say I have not read ozVTR's guide.
 
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The tutorial is done in accordance with the PSA AL4 workshop manual (except for the alignment tool). However the deviation replicates the result required by the manual. I.E. setting up the roller blade and selector quadrant in the "second gear (#2)" position under compression.
My intention, with the tutorial, was to show how the manual says to do things and make clear some of the confusing instructions (like the alignment tool). While it is not done exactly verbatim from the manual, for practical reasons, I hope it is an accurate representation of the intention of the manual.
It also shows why people are so confused as to what the tool is and what it's used for and why/how you can use a substitute.
If someone does not recommend that the gearbox should be serviced in accordance with the service manual then fine, I have no problem, but I hope the readers understand that and make up their own mind.
I am NOT saying this is the wrong way to service the gearbox (if it works, why not), just that anything else is not in accordance with the manual and that readers should know that.
The tutorial is NOT my opinion, but the way (I believe) the manufacturer recommends it be done. Good or bad, easy or hard, right or wrong.
I have changed 3 sets of electrovalves so far using the manual, as I have found nothing but the manual as a decent guide. Originally I was very confused as to what the manual was asking to be done (like others I guess) but I believe I have sorted things out. I have not had time or reason to "experiment" so I can not comment on whether there are "better" ways.
I spent 6 years in the RAAF and 20 years as a contractor in the avionics industry. I know how confusing technical publications can be and what "by-the-book" means! So that's the way I tend to do things.
I understand the manual is not the only possable way to service the gearbox, and there is nothing that stops the reader from fixing their car their way or even a better way. For this reason I wish to retract the word "must" from my post above and substitute it with "should". "Must" is a command and it is not my intention to tell people what to do, just advise them.
 
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